On indiegogo does asking what may be too much turn the audience off?

[WalterB]

I got it.

You can't ask it.
(Give that lady some cash for her time to inquire. What is the problem? That they charge depending on the budget you have? Then ask: what if my budget is x and what if it is y?)

On my productions I will ask it anyway.
It can sometimes be a PITA to go through the bureaucratic blabla, but at least here in The Netherlands it is possible to ask before you have any money.
It really makes life simpler

Actually: a lot of people without enough money come to me to ask what a corporate movie would cost them. I give them an estimation if it is clear what they want and need, I give them a wider estimation with option if it is less clear.
Sometimes it turns out they don't have the budget yet.
That's to bad, but if they never asked they would never know...

I have the feeling that you can't ask, because you don't know yet which music you will want to use.
In that case you can still ask about a few tracks you would love to use to get an idea.

 

[sfoster]

. And sorry your wrong i've been doing this. What commercial songs have you bought? You cant find out exact prices until a music budget is in place.

Oh man this is going to be good.

 

[davidevans10]

I got it.

You can't ask it.
(Give that lady some cash for her time to inquire. What is the problem? That they charge depending on the budget you have? Then ask: what if my budget is x and what if it is y?)

On my productions I will ask it anyway.
It can sometimes be a PITA to go through the bureaucratic blabla, but at least here in The Netherlands it is possible to ask before you have any money.
It really makes life simpler

Actually: a lot of people without enough money come to me to ask what a corporate movie would cost them. I give them an estimation if it is clear what they want and need, I give them a wider estimation with option if it is less clear.
Sometimes it turns out they don't have the budget yet.
That's to bad, but if they never asked they would never know...

I have the feeling that you can't ask, because you don't know yet which music you will want to use.
In that case you can still ask about a few tracks you would love to use to get an idea.

well i know exactly the songs i want. which is why its so important. its costs mad money just for festival. My money is going all in my film now and my time

 

[davidevans10]

It seems you don't know much about the IGG structure? I'd highly recommend spending a few months researching just what the platform is and what makes a successful one.

----

Once you reach your goal, you've funded. Then you supply them with a few higher goals known as Stretch Goals, these are things you promise to make even better about your project in exchange for more money.

Also, yes you can ask for too much money. If you were to task 15k for a comedy short film, I'd most likely question if you even know what you're spending the money on. As well if you asked anything above that I'd question you. First IGG? I'd be concerned if you went double digit into the thousands at all. The 1-3k region makes a perfect first campaign. From there you can jump to 5-10k. Heck if you make an amazing project out of that 1-3k campaign people will be much more likely to back you for an even higher goal. Possibly even a 50k feature if you really prove your worth to them.

On an unrelated note, Kickstarter is a much bigger and better platform. People have much more trust in the projects that come through there. Somewhat because a majority of people have feelings against Flexible Funding.

hmm i'm wondering now. I guess if your worried about not getting any help you can strike up a small goal. If people like it you can gain more right? I was also wondering why there's not many films on these sites. ithought everyone is making films now. I thought there would be lots of people trying to get money for nothing which has been done many times

thanks

 

[WalterB]

............ ithought everyone is making films now. I thought there would be lots of people trying to get money for nothing which has been done many times

thanks

And that failed many times more.
So a lot of people realised it's not that easy.
And the ones who succeeded are indeed probably still working on it.

 

[davidevans10]

And that failed many times more.
So a lot of people realised it's not that easy.
And the ones who succeeded are indeed probably still working on it.

Do you agree with the kick starter instead of indie gogo Walter. I'm going to have a half made film with a trailer and aloot of info. Just to provise some info

 

[WalterB]

Well, it makes sense that people are sceptical about flexible funding for film projects.
When you are crowdfunding to produce super cool socks and the funders are in essence buying socks raising half the money will not harm the socks. (It will probably harm the margin made on the socks.)
Raising only half of what is needed to make or complete a feature is a whole different problem: you can't say to yur backers: "We only got half of the goal, so you'll get a half of the movie on DVD with half of the artwork as a cover."

The Kickstarter way gives backers a kind of security that they aren't wasting money: if there are not enough backers they get their money back. If there are enough, they'll live to see a finished movie.

 

[davidevans10]

Well, it makes sense that people are sceptical about flexible funding for film projects.
When you are crowdfunding to produce super cool socks and the funders are in essence buying socks raising half the money will not harm the socks. (It will probably harm the margin made on the socks.)
Raising only half of what is needed to make or complete a feature is a whole different problem: you can't say to yur backers: "We only got half of the goal, so you'll get a half of the movie on DVD with half of the artwork as a cover."

The Kickstarter way gives backers a kind of security that they aren't wasting money: if there are not enough backers they get their money back. If there are enough, they'll live to see a finished movie.

so how about me where I'd like some assurance of something to atleast pay for festival music or selling right for licensed music but i have a film thats going to be made regardless.

Would you not say indie gogo is my best bet since its not about the project being made so much as music and marketing

 

[Sweetie]

The marketing may be a tough sell. Most people outside the film industry, while they see adds on TV, they don't really see the marketing angle. If you educate them right, who knows, you might succeed.

As for the music, if you ask the right people for money for the music and convince them why you need to spend more money than usual on those songs, you should be fine. You have to get the right message and convert enough of them to reach your goal.

The questions shouldn't be whether you can do it. You need to figure out what you need to get it to work for you. I believe the highest amount a movie has raised in crowd funding is Veronica Mars in the 4mil mark. Followed by Super Troopers at 3.2mil and Wish I was Here at 3.1mil. Conman, a web series asked for a little over $400k and so far they've got $2.8mil with 50 hours remaining. VGHS webseries ran successful campaigns for both of their first two seasons. The money is out there, the question is whether you can get your share and how big your share will be.

 

[davidevans10]

The marketing may be a tough sell. Most people outside the film industry, while they see adds on TV, they don't really see the marketing angle. If you educate them right, who knows, you might succeed.

As for the music, if you ask the right people for money for the music and convince them why you need to spend more money than usual on those songs, you should be fine. You have to get the right message and convert enough of them to reach your goal.

The questions shouldn't be whether you can do it. You need to figure out what you need to get it to work for you. I believe the highest amount a movie has raised in crowd funding is Veronica Mars in the 4mil mark. Followed by Super Troopers at 3.2mil and Wish I was Here at 3.1mil. Conman, a web series asked for a little over $400k and so far they've got $2.8mil with 50 hours remaining. VGHS webseries ran successful campaigns for both of their first two seasons. The money is out there, the question is whether you can get your share and how big your share will be.

My only question is gogo or kickstarter for what I'm doing

 

[Sweetie]

I don't see much in the way of differences between the platforms.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

films arent all done the same way.

There are countless potential ways to make a film but relatively few will actually result in a watchable film. The majority of ways are highly inefficient, meaning that the result will be a shelved film or at best, a completed film which is far poorer than it should have been. You seem convinced that your way, which is effectively backwards, is the only way possible. Good luck with that!

And sorry your wrong i've been doing this.

That's funny! You've moved from the rather bizarre to the completely absurd. I've been licensing, negotiating and/or dealing professionally with commercial music in Film/TV for over 20 years. In that time I've dealt with many hundreds of songs, from obscure ethnic recordings to recordings from some of the most famous stars and most of the major labels. How long have you "been doing this" and how many commercial songs have you dealt with?

You cant find out exact prices until a music budget is in place.

I never said anything about "exact" prices. It's patently obvious that you can't conclude negotiations for commercial music (or any commercial product/service) without a budget. It should also be patently obvious that if you start a funding campaign without a pretty good idea of how much funding you actually need, then not only are you less likely to reach your funding target in the first place but even if you do, you still have no idea if that funding is going to enable you to make your film. Your "way" is effectively based on pure chance, one of the ways most likely to result in a shelved or un-watchable film.

... got it . good

Filmmaking noobs are welcomed here, there's nothing in the least bit objectionable about noob questions, as even the most experienced/knowledgeable here were at one time noobs themselves. What is objectionable is a noob question where after a few days it turns out the noob is apparently such a seasoned expert that they feel justified in dismissing and patronising others. Why bother asking noob questions if you already know more than anyone else? This indicates extreme foolishness, delusion, trolling or all three!!

Anyway, I'm out of this thread now. Good luck ... IMO you're going to need shed loads of it!

G

 

[mad_hatter]

My only question is gogo or kickstarter for what I'm doing

That’s not really what you’re asking. If that were the question, you’d need to look at different issues. Kickstarter has more users, therefore more potential backers. However, (IIRC) they take a higher percentage of the funds than IndieGoGo. So with IndieGoGo, you keep more of the money you raise.

The question you’re really asking is whether you should use Fixed or Flexible funding. IGG offers both of these options. Again, I would not give to a flexi-fund campaign unless the goal had already been met, or was very, very close. Another issue with flexible funding on IGG is that if you don’t meet your goal, you have to pay 9% of you funds to IGG. That could be 9% of my money paid to IGG, instead of going to the project that I had backed, all because you failed to run a successful campaign.

Let’s look at your specific example: say you’ve got a finished movie and it’s really good. You want to license some mainstream, popular music for use in your film. But you can’t find out how much it will cost you. So how much are you going to ask for? $5K? $10K? Let’s say you ask for $10K, flexi-funding. You raise $9K. What if that’s not enough? What happens to the money?

So let’s say you ask for $10K, fixed or flexi, and you raise it. You then go to that particular publisher and request a license to use their songs. They want $12K. What then? You can’t use the songs. You’re in exactly the same boat as you were above. Do you pocket the $10K? Do you offer refunds to those that backed you? Is your film somehow ruined without that music? If I backed you by purchasing a copy of the film on DVD, I’d expect the music to be there (as that’s what I helped pay for).

I think if you start a campaign in either of the above variations, you’ll fail. Very few people will give to you. If, however, you find the cost of the music, then ask for that amount in a fixed funding campaign, you might just make it.

 

[davidevans10]

There are countless potential ways to make a film but relatively few will actually result in a watchable film. The majority of ways are highly inefficient, meaning that the result will be a shelved film or at best, a completed film which is far poorer than it should have been. You seem convinced that your way, which is effectively backwards, is the only way possible. Good luck with that!



That's funny! You've moved from the rather bizarre to the completely absurd. I've been licensing, negotiating and/or dealing professionally with commercial music in Film/TV for over 20 years. In that time I've dealt with many hundreds of songs, from obscure ethnic recordings to recordings from some of the most famous stars and most of the major labels. How long have you "been doing this" and how many commercial songs have you dealt with?



I never said anything about "exact" prices. It's patently obvious that you can't conclude negotiations for commercial music (or any commercial product/service) without a budget. It should also be patently obvious that if you start a funding campaign without a pretty good idea of how much funding you actually need, then not only are you less likely to reach your funding target in the first place but even if you do, you still have no idea if that funding is going to enable you to make your film. Your "way" is effectively based on pure chance, one of the ways most likely to result in a shelved or un-watchable film.



Filmmaking noobs are welcomed here, there's nothing in the least bit objectionable about noob questions, as even the most experienced/knowledgeable here were at one time noobs themselves. What is objectionable is a noob question where after a few days it turns out the noob is apparently such a seasoned expert that they feel justified in dismissing and patronising others. Why bother asking noob questions if you already know more than anyone else? This indicates extreme foolishness, delusion, trolling or all three!!

Anyway, I'm out of this thread now. Good luck ... IMO you're going to need shed loads of it!

G

thats because the "pro" doesnt want to answer questions . They want to look smart and criticize even though they never had success and are a hack. I'm trying to get money to license music as simple as that. It wont result if my film being bad. You are dismissed

 

[WalterB]

That’s not really what you’re asking. If that were the question, you’d need to look at different issues. Kickstarter has more users, therefore more potential backers................

Which doesn't matter in the first place, because that might only help when the campaign is already quite successfull. You start with just your own crowd.
Thinking that all those users are searching all day to discover your project is the same as thinking "make it and they will come". You still need to reach them.

 

[davidevans10]

That’s not really what you’re asking. If that were the question, you’d need to look at different issues. Kickstarter has more users, therefore more potential backers. However, (IIRC) they take a higher percentage of the funds than IndieGoGo. So with IndieGoGo, you keep more of the money you raise.

The question you’re really asking is whether you should use Fixed or Flexible funding. IGG offers both of these options. Again, I would not give to a flexi-fund campaign unless the goal had already been met, or was very, very close. Another issue with flexible funding on IGG is that if you don’t meet your goal, you have to pay 9% of you funds to IGG. That could be 9% of my money paid to IGG, instead of going to the project that I had backed, all because you failed to run a successful campaign.

Let’s look at your specific example: say you’ve got a finished movie and it’s really good. You want to license some mainstream, popular music for use in your film. But you can’t find out how much it will cost you. So how much are you going to ask for? $5K? $10K? Let’s say you ask for $10K, flexi-funding. You raise $9K. What if that’s not enough? What happens to the money?

So let’s say you ask for $10K, fixed or flexi, and you raise it. You then go to that particular publisher and request a license to use their songs. They want $12K. What then? You can’t use the songs. You’re in exactly the same boat as you were above. Do you pocket the $10K? Do you offer refunds to those that backed you? Is your film somehow ruined without that music? If I backed you by purchasing a copy of the film on DVD, I’d expect the music to be there (as that’s what I helped pay for).

I think if you start a campaign in either of the above variations, you’ll fail. Very few people will give to you. If, however, you find the cost of the music, then ask for that amount in a fixed funding campaign, you might just make it.

The selling rights for the songs i want is astronomical. Unlikely without distribution. I'm kinda just thinking about festival. To show the ideal version which still costs. you have to work out song by song. and you have to have money. So thats off the table now. There is no getting a quote now.

So whats the percentage taken by igg if goal is met? and the rate of kickstarter vs igg percentage taken?

 

[mad_hatter]

So whats the percentage taken by igg if goal is met? and the rate of kickstarter vs igg percentage taken?

Why don't you check their respective websites?

 

[davidevans10]

Why don't you check their respective websites?

I find all the info you need hard to find sometimes on websites. Asking here is better sometimes. Is a stretch campaign a seperate campaign done after yours is over with?

 

[davidevans10]

Well, it makes sense that people are sceptical about flexible funding for film projects.
When you are crowdfunding to produce super cool socks and the funders are in essence buying socks raising half the money will not harm the socks. (It will probably harm the margin made on the socks.)
Raising only half of what is needed to make or complete a feature is a whole different problem: you can't say to yur backers: "We only got half of the goal, so you'll get a half of the movie on DVD with half of the artwork as a cover."

The Kickstarter way gives backers a kind of security that they aren't wasting money: if there are not enough backers they get their money back. If there are enough, they'll live to see a finished movie.

There's also an extra third party fee with gogo?

 

[WalterB]

There is always a fee whena campaign succeeds: that's how those websites make money.