Follow up to my "argument" with Sonny and Cracker regarding hybrid distribution.

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Gratwick Films

Gratwick Films

Follow up to my "argument" with Sonny and Cracker regarding hybrid distribution.

Sonnyboo,

I am back. I could start this right out with questioning some of your claims in our previous conversation based on my recent experiences but I will take the high road.

Everyone else,

I had gotten into a heated debate several months ago while trying to open a discussion about how the leverage in negotiating for distribution could be turned to the indie filmmakers favor. I was chastized as being a fool, arrogant and a liar.

I tried to explain my plan and the words were lost in the animosity and defeat of everyone else's bitter experiences. I explained how I wanted to do a 6 city tour and try and build fans as we went a long and hope it turned into something much much bigger. I was told by Sonny and others I was a fool and "drunk of the success of making my first movie" Full of condescending comments as they patted me on the back and said "good for you lil fella"

Guess what - It happened!

I even invited Sonny and others to come to the shows and address their concerns or disbelief during our Q&A's. Q&A's broadcast live online so folks like Sonny or Cracker could watch and question me in front of a crowd from the sanctity of their couches. They choose to mock my plan as impossible on a message board instead.

Here is a sizzle real from the tour (FYI this was edited for a reality show pitch that is now currently in development)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FPaLIKfxz0

Oh by the way a review from the UK (one of many similar reviews, this is my favorite however)
http://www.pissedoffgeek.com/wordpress/?p=1381

Feel free to click on the daggers (Its only fan confessions from each city)
http://theperfecthousemovie.net/tour.html

Oh AND what do you know facebook just recently launched a VOD site. One that we will be announcing a partnership with in the near future. www.flicklaunch.com (This site will become the silver bullet for Indie filmmakers)

Currently we are securing the final financing for a 200k marketing plan estimated to reach 60 million people around the world. Our little tour will be a 34 city lap around the country in a tour bus promoting the release of the film. While documenting the entire tour and building a fan base we will be creating an instant documentary/behind the scenes/reality show all while giving away free screenings in each city.

So I will say this one more time. JUST because Sonny or anyone else wasn't able to do something. Doesn't mean you can't!
 
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Zensteve said:
Come on, dude. You should have stuck to your guns right here.
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If you took a moment to read what I just wrote it explains in detail why I decided to post again.


I get the distinct impression the words I am writing do not even matter. The fact there doesn't seem to be a single person that can have an unbiased comment without personal anger is shocking.

I came on here and originally started posting to inspire "basic members and inexperienced filmmakers" with a plan and an idea that expands the relm of whats possible for all of us, not to be told why not and fight attempts to make achieving our dreams more difficult.

There is nothing productive in Sonny's words all he wants is a flame war where he snipes from his pedistal of unchalleged respect about how I can't do something he couldn't even dream as possible. There hasn't been one semblance of a respectable debate about differing opinions that could benefit all. Just simple NO YOU CAN'Ts from Sonny. REAL PRODUCTIVE for all these members that look to you for the answers.

The fact I said my film is "disgustingly good" and it offends everyone, making you HATE my plan is really sad. Did it ever occur to any of you that arrogant or not maybe he is RIGHT??

I now have countless articles, confessions from unbiased unknown audience members and a ton of reviews yet none of those things are weighed into my credibility. I can bring documented proof of my support and the fact that our plan is working and growing in strength everyday and no one seems interested in facts and projections. Hell forget the fact we still have 115 days to continue building.

For a bunch of filmmakers that spend everyday aspisiring to turn dreams into reality it really is a shame that Sonny and his limits are such a respected and admired voice for each of you.

I don't care if he told you what F stop to use on a short. When the reality becomes you are or already have passed him the tone and temperment in his post changes. I've researched all of Sonny's wonderfully helpful posts. There many but specifically 7 of them I could directly dispute and bring an established industry DP onto the board to directly counter some of his "advice" as flat out WRONG, inexperienced, or much more difficult than other options but why bother everyone loves the advice they get from a career amatuer.

Apparently its IMPOSSIBLE to make a highly marketable and profitable film your first time out because Sonny didn't do it. So regardless how many documented opinions from strangers be it critics or audiences their credibility is questioned over that of the great and assuming Columbus Sonny.

FYI - P.A. SUCKED!!! Had shitty dialogue, shitty production value, and a shitty story yet it went on to make 100 million dollars. YES that piece of shit was promoted by Paramount BUT what do you think would have happened to Oren if as a FIRST TIME filmmaker he had the nerve to come on here and post that Paramount wants to pick up his film and do a wide theatrical release with it?

Sonny would have "IMPLIED" he was a lying arrogant fool to.

Sorry Sonny but it happens EVERY single day to better and worse films then you make. Sometimes it really is all just luck sometimes its because the people who are truly serious about being that 1 in a million shot moved to LA to seriously make it happen.

October 9th Sonny DEBATE ME AND MY DRUNK ON MY FIRST FILM ARROGANCE LIVE ONLINE FOR ALL TO SEE!!! YOU CAN EVEN HAVE CRACKER MODERATE IF YOU CHOOSE.

But your face where your mouth is and back your bullshit up like I'm willing to do.

Im sure your response will be some arrogant banter about how your to good and decent to ever bother debating someone that could prove you're actually full of shit and bitterness.
 
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I think I have this figured out. Even negative publicity is publicity. What better way to create the underdog character than to appear to go against traditional thinking and at least part of the independent film community to create contrived conflict.

This will make for some red meat conversation with your planned promotional interviews, won't it? There's nothing quite like a good "beating the establishment" narrative to drum up sympathetic support.

Every good deception has an ounce of truth to it. The problem here is your act was over the top and you tipped your hand. Instead of coming across as intended, you came across as an unhinged conspiracy theorist giving new meaning to what people were "really" saying so to stay on script.

So it comes down to this: your purpose with this thread is as I suspect or you are suffering from some type of mental imbalance giving you a persecution complex. Which is it? I don't see a third option.
 
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First off, I think there's nothing wrong with thinking or saying your film is 'disgustingly good.' You should love and be proud of your movie and when trying to market it you should talk it up. McDonald's doesn't sell hamburgers by advertising them as 'Meh, they're ok.'

But when you try to pass off ego as altruism (re: the whole trying to 'inspire' line you keep throwing out) I find that presumptuous and it irks me.

So while you may be trying to help (or 'inspire' as you continue to presume to think), I'm turned off by your 'teaching style.' You may have something to say that I can learn from, but this is one 'class' I'll be dropping. Hopefully it'll be in the curriculum next semester with a different professor.

edit: I forgot to say, I really do wish you the best of luck with your movie :)
 
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ROC said:
Yeah Gatwick, I agree with Steve.

You're pretty childish in your dealings. I'll dissuade anyone who brings your name up - IF they bring your name up. This is getting pretty bad.
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Yet calling someone childish and threatening to trash their name when ever possible is not the EXACT same thing you are accusing me of how?? ANOTHER PATHETIC HYPOCRIT


Yes Yes we all know, no matter how many people or dreams Steve tries to rain on he is right.


You all have a funny way of what you consider "supporting each other and the filmmaker community"

Scorch the outsider and his crazy ideas of indie filmmakers having leverage. Steve says we all have to take it up the ass for ever cause we will NEVER be able to accomplish or reach levels Steve couldnt reach.

You're right how dare I not bow my head in respect tht Sonny is the end all be all on what each of us can all achieve.

Absolutely PATHETIC!!!! its this mentality why you all continue to mire in mediocrity. Find someone more worth your admiration and respect. Someone that won't burden you with their limits and failures of why not but tell you this is where I failed learn and build off that.

Should I really give up and succumb to a bunch of naysayers??

Thats what COWARDS do and then they spend the rest of their lives "advising" others on how not to make it out of Columbus either.

Even when I explain in GREAT detail numbers, facts, projections and opportunities no one cares you just want to hurl personal insults and act like this is a pissing match. Im creating and executing a blueprint any of you could follow build on or question. No one has bothered to have those discussion. Its much more fun to focus on attacking and condemning that which Sonny cannot understand or comprehend.

I've never shy'd away from a productive discussion of the why and why nots. That never seems to happen because the naysayers don't want to talk about what ifs or how to's that would force them to face their own personal shortcomings.

Its much more fun to tear down and deal in absolutes about why not. Much kinder to your preciously weak egos.


SAD REALLY SAD. If the majority of the posters on this thread represent the short sighted mentality of true indie filmmakers then Im even happier because you're all too busy listening to Sonny and defeating yourselves to be viable competitors or collaborators.

Each and everyone of you deserves better than this.....then again......maybe you don't.

See you all on Flick Launch in 5 years when Sonny tells you its ok and its now the "traditional" way of doing things.
 
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I'd be a little more careful who you insult over the internet, wether it be in games or not.

Reason I said the above is because you're really getting on some nerves here and it's getting old. If you have something to go over with sonny, do it in a PM. Don't turn this board into a Jerry Springer episode. Let's all just grow up and continue using this site for it's original purpose - TO HELP EACH OTHER. It's also against the rules as far as I know to do what we're doing on here. Especially Gatwick's cussing.

P.S. I don't think I ever insulted your film or called you names - I pointed out how unprofessional you are and based on this if anyone ever were to ask my opinion about you, I'd tell them the truth from what I saw on here.
 
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CamVader said:
I think I have this figured out. Even negative publicity is publicity. What better way to create the underdog character than to appear to go against traditional thinking and at least part of the independent film community to create contrived conflict.

This will make for some red meat conversation with your planned promotional interviews, won't it? There's nothing quite like a good "beating the establishment" narrative to drum up sympathetic support.

Every good deception has an ounce of truth to it. The problem here is your act was over the top and you tipped your hand. Instead of coming across as intended, you came across as an unhinged conspiracy theorist giving new meaning to what people were "really" saying so to stay on script.

So it comes down to this: your purpose with this thread is as I suspect or you are suffering from some type of mental imbalance giving you a persecution complex. Which is it? I don't see a third option.
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Cam,

Intelligent perspective. Atleast you took a moment to break it down based on your own personal impression and view point. I respect that whether you agree with me or not.

Sadly it has almost become option number 1.

I originally posted with the intention of encouraging or inspiring others to do something similar with what we are doing either building off it or learning from it. My hope was a collarative indie filmmaker discussion on how WE the indies could sway the leverage to our favor instead turned into a witch hunt. To many filmmakers regardless of what they present themselves as have a ME mentality on an us or even an Us against them (distributors) mentality.

Whether we like it or not Hollywod is a Club and one they don't really want us to join. Instead of spending 30 years trying to "join the club" YOURSELF. Why not start a better more open and welcoming club, one thats more a team instead of club. THATS what I was hoping for.

The more the conversations and posts went on the more my frustration has grown with the blissful ignorance being displayed. Sonny represents a closed and narrow minded perspective on what is and isn't possible. Much like the studios hold us back by having towards us.

I represent a DIY whatever it takes don't let ANYONE tell you you can't do it. I represent the arrogance to say NOTHING will stop me from reaching my dreams or achieving my goals. I came to the indie filmmaker community looking to find and join forces with kindred spirits, after all didn't we all get in this with the belief we could defy the odds???

I will not apologize because I think Sonny's positions, tactics and comments represent a bitter "why not ME" individual instead of a TEAM mentality.

My major flaw in life is I don't know when to quit. I didn't quit when we didn't have any money a week before production but had contracts and flights purchased, I didn't quit when a day before production we had 6 inches of water flooding our location, I didn't quit when after shooting I couldn't afford to come back to LA because my safety net was spent on payroll. I didn't quit when we couldn't find the money for cgi and color correction, I didn't quit when people told me the mini tour was a dumb idea,

AND I sure as shit won't quit cause some marginal obscure 50 year old filmmaker and his minions tell me online I can't do it and it can't be done. Thats why I continue to post.

To inspire that ONE asshole like me that doesn't post but reads these threads and wants to be inspired by the "impossible"

So yeah I see Sonny as a dream crusher for me and others and I refuse to let him be an unchallenged voice for WHY NOT?
 
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This is fuckin' retarded.



1) What you've proposed is neither new nor revolutionary, so it's fundamentally precluded from being a "crazy" fantastic idea.
2) Noone is trying to shit on your parade, indeed, many have wished you well.
3) Sonnyboo's taken, but I hear Uwe Boll's looking.
 
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Nevermind.

Not worth the time.

I must admit, it's really hard not to get into it with this type of person or thread. I must resist myself.

Anyway,

Have a nice life and I really hope we don't cross paths.
 
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ROC said:
I'd be a little more careful who you insult over the internet, wether it be in games or not.

Reason I said the above is because you're really getting on some nerves here and it's getting old. If you have something to go over with sonny, do it in a PM. Don't turn this board into a Jerry Springer episode. Let's all just grow up and continue using this site for it's original purpose - TO HELP EACH OTHER. It's also against the rules as far as I know to do what we're doing on here. Especially Gatwick's cussing.

P.S. I don't think I ever insulted your film or called you names - I pointed out how unprofessional you are and based on this if anyone ever were to ask my opinion about you, I'd tell them the truth from what I saw on here.
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1. Seems to me this has become one of the most popular threads. YOU are free to read other ones if you don't find anything helpful here. Im sure some very smart individuals will be able to take a lot of useful things out of this. But once again its never about someone elses perspective just you the individual. You the individual demand sensorship from this thread and my words yet you KEEP COMING BACK. You have to live in middle america somewhere. Most likely the bible belt. Sit on your soap box and condemn while rubber necking all you can.

2. I got in this business because I don't need to be PC and professional for people like you. Im sure you have to play professional worker bee for corporate america everyday still, but I do not.

3. I'm not the least bit surprised you would base your gossip and opinions on who a person really is from an online forum. Very narrow minded and judgemental much like your objections to me and my blastfamous plans.

4. I find your first sentence to be a thinly vailed personal threat against me. I find your comments and actions HIGHLY alarming and it presents me with serious concerns about what kind of person you truly are. If it is not in fact a threat it is some sort of puffed out chest of your implied stature in the "real world" before I just randomly fear your implied industry stature how do you in fact know I do not have the same or higher? Because I'm crazy, determined and arrogant? If you are in fact in this industry find me one person at the top of the food chain who isn't? So maybe you should be the one thinking twice. (simple suggestion of perspective)

I think many of the misunderstandings in this thread and the previous one stem from some of the conotations and undertones in many of the outspoken posts against me. They were clearly written and intended to be insults and insinuations in a PC fashion. When I recognize these comments for exactly what they are - disguised PERSONAL ATTACKS - I respond to them directly.

If you would prefer I took a similar fake and phony approach I would be happy to. Myself and the people foolish enough to be by my side find the hypocrism hilarious.

Its ok to attack and insult someone and their credibility as long as you do it in a manner you can justify as "helping" or "productively questioning" regardless of the true intention of the comments. However if someone not only gets LOUD AND CLEAR the hidden FU in your comments but calls you on it and responds accordingly you become highly pretentious and offended.

The only difference between myself and Sonny, you or other derogatory posts is the fact I'm atleast honest and open, I don't try to throw stones at someone from the bushes and then get pissed off when they call me on it.

So if you can't beat them join them I guess right. So let's do this the PC way. I find your first sentence to be a personal threat against my safety and I am giving serious considerations to contacting the authorities about it.

Is that PC enough for you?

Now if you'll excuse me I need to practice my pitch tomorrow for a potential tour funding investor. Or I could just be completely lying like everything else and simply tying spaghetti noodles together over and over.
 
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bird said:
This is fuckin' retarded.



1) What you've proposed is neither new nor revolutionary, so it's fundamentally precluded from being a "crazy" fantastic idea.
2) Noone is trying to shit on your parade, indeed, many have wished you well.
3) Sonnyboo's taken, but I hear Uwe Boll's looking.
Click to expand...



I have and continue to appreciate the well wishes and the many fans that have rallyed and picked up our flag. I am simply not bowing to people who intend only to tear down. You can look at some of their comments with whatever rose colored glasses you so choose but I won't wear them.
 
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Dreadylocks said:
But it's like a car crash! I can't look away!
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I actually used that in our facebook pool question!

While going over my pitch an idea for peace came to me.

Here is my peace offering in an effort to show my desire to truly have a productive conversation. If I openly posted my detailed marketing plan for all of you to see everything, can we have an intelligent discussion about why or why not?

I would also be happy to answer any CONSTRUCTIVE questions.
 
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Wow.

I really don't know where to start.

Ernest, this is really difficult!


p.s. I sort of enjoy the effort I get out of him with my 20-word posts compared to his longer posts.
 
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I vote for the Old Yeller ending so this thing doesn't fester. Nothing can be gained. Maybe another thread at another time would be more appropriate. A fresh start.
 
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