Follow up to my "argument" with Sonny and Cracker regarding hybrid distribution.

[Gratwick Films]

Follow up to my "argument" with Sonny and Cracker regarding hybrid distribution.

Sonnyboo,

I am back. I could start this right out with questioning some of your claims in our previous conversation based on my recent experiences but I will take the high road.

Everyone else,

I had gotten into a heated debate several months ago while trying to open a discussion about how the leverage in negotiating for distribution could be turned to the indie filmmakers favor. I was chastized as being a fool, arrogant and a liar.

I tried to explain my plan and the words were lost in the animosity and defeat of everyone else's bitter experiences. I explained how I wanted to do a 6 city tour and try and build fans as we went a long and hope it turned into something much much bigger. I was told by Sonny and others I was a fool and "drunk of the success of making my first movie" Full of condescending comments as they patted me on the back and said "good for you lil fella"

Guess what - It happened!

I even invited Sonny and others to come to the shows and address their concerns or disbelief during our Q&A's. Q&A's broadcast live online so folks like Sonny or Cracker could watch and question me in front of a crowd from the sanctity of their couches. They choose to mock my plan as impossible on a message board instead.

Here is a sizzle real from the tour (FYI this was edited for a reality show pitch that is now currently in development)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FPaLIKfxz0

Oh by the way a review from the UK (one of many similar reviews, this is my favorite however)
http://www.pissedoffgeek.com/wordpress/?p=1381

Feel free to click on the daggers (Its only fan confessions from each city)
http://theperfecthousemovie.net/tour.html

Oh AND what do you know facebook just recently launched a VOD site. One that we will be announcing a partnership with in the near future. www.flicklaunch.com (This site will become the silver bullet for Indie filmmakers)

Currently we are securing the final financing for a 200k marketing plan estimated to reach 60 million people around the world. Our little tour will be a 34 city lap around the country in a tour bus promoting the release of the film. While documenting the entire tour and building a fan base we will be creating an instant documentary/behind the scenes/reality show all while giving away free screenings in each city.

So I will say this one more time. JUST because Sonny or anyone else wasn't able to do something. Doesn't mean you can't!

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

So you made money/broke even?
The papers are signed on the this 200K?

If so, more power to you. I'd have no interest in doing something like that, but if you do, that's awesome.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Wow. It amazes me how much of this post basically boils down to "F-U, Sonnyboo!"

Really?! And then you had to toss my name into the mix?

I really don't feel like re-visiting that thread, but I assure you that EVERY comment I made was my most sincere advice that I thought would be best for you. I have absolutely NO interest in shooting down a fellow filmmaker, particularly one who is in similar shoes with me. Even with this snarky post, I still honestly wish the best for you.

I have also made a feature film. I also feel confident that people will like it. I also have my own battle-plan for getting it seen. My plan differs from yours, and I feel like your plan could use some tweaking. That doesn't mean I'm hating on you. Lighten up, dude. We're in the same boat.

 

[Kholi]

Link to the discussion?

And, hope you're getting what you want out of it. I don't know the story but its a rule of thumb to take things with a grain of salt. I typically ask to see someones work before I let them influence any decisions I make.

 

[sonnyboo]

Guess what - It happened!

So, you're saying you've made your $1-$2 million dollars by turning down a studio offers of distribution from LIONSGATE or UNIVERSAL and self distributing your feature film with VIDEO ON DEMAND?

I even invited Sonny and others to come to the shows and address their concerns or disbelief during our Q&A's. Q&A's broadcast live online so folks like Sonny or Cracker could watch and question me in front of a crowd from the sanctity of their couches. They choose to mock my plan as impossible on a message board instead.

Just to be clear, I was invited to a screening 9-10 hours drive away in Philadelphia, so not exactly a "free screening" as it may sound... and I stand by my original opinion that based on the trailer, I probably would not have watched it anyways.

I was not aware of an online chat, nor would I have taken the time to participate in watching someone I don't know or don't care about talking about a film that I have no interest in. Sorry.

I explained how I wanted to do a 6 city tour and try and build fans as we went a long and hope it turned into something much much bigger. I was told by Sonny and others I was a fool and "drunk of the success of making my first movie" Full of condescending comments as they patted me on the back and said "good for you lil fella"

I disagreed with your plan to use only VOD and self distribute as being less likely to succeed than traditional distribution via Lionsgate or Universal. I'm sorry that you still interpret that as mocking.

I think the problems arose from the misleading title of the old thread "Thinking about turning down a studio deal" http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=28432 wherein you stated that you were thinking of turning down the studio deals from studios like LIONSGATE and UNIVERSAL because you'd "only" make $1-$2 million dollars.

So I will say this one more time. JUST because Sonny or anyone else wasn't able to do something. Doesn't mean you can't!

And I will say this one more time.... I never tried to make VOD my primary source of income on a feature, and I never said you couldn't, I said it was less likely to succeed than the combined distribution from DVD rental, retail, etc. And I still believe that. Your Mileage May Vary.

JUST because someone cannot separate reality from the magical and weird interpretations in their imagination of conflicts that don't exist, doesn't mean you can't!

I still don't know if what you are implying is saying you have made $1-$2 million dollars from VOD and self distribution as opposed to making a deal with LIONSGATE or UNIVERSAL. Is this what you are saying? What is it you accomplished exactly?


I hope you do secure your $200,000 marketing plan. You may want to wait until the negotiations are finished before touting it as an accomplishment.

Here is a sizzle real from the tour (FYI this was edited for a reality show pitch that is now currently in development)

"currently in development" with whom? In Development can either mean

a. a studio or production company is in contract with me to develop the material into a show
or
b. I am full of it because this means I am making it myself then taking it around like everyone else with a TV show idea and demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FPaLIKfxz0

This video was very good. I liked the approach a lot. It might turn out to be your biggest surprise success. I would watch more to see what people think and say as the tour goes on, especially those on the production team. The first half of the video has some really down to earth real statements before the 2nd half turned into pure marketing for the film. I would love to see the updates as you release them. Please keep us informed.

Best of luck. As CF said, we're all in the same boat. Good for you lil' fella. Your successes and failures have no affect on me.

 

[Utopia]

I don't get why people act like they have a foot in to this industry when they don't and I don't know why it's acceptable to insult 2 veteran helpful members of this board...?

 

[bird]

So you made money/broke even?
The papers are signed on the this 200K?

This.

Even with this snarky post, I still honestly wish the best for you.

.

This.

Link to the discussion?

.

http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=28432

I don't know why it's acceptable to insult 2 veteran helpful members of this board...?

..and this.

Also, like the many times I suggested you delete some of your vitriolic posts within your original thread (which a mod finally, and graciously, did)..... I'd suggest you boast with a little more humility in this new thread. JMO.
Personally, I don't care how talented you may prove to be. I bet you'd be a biotch to work with/for.

 

[Gratwick Films]

Ok one thing first.

To whoever asked if I made 1-2 million dollars yet. Come on if you looked at ANYTHING I provided you, you would see the release is October 1st. Ask me Novemeber 1st.

Now before things jump off the tracks and we go back down the same roads let me try once again to explain my position.

I agree we are all in the same boat, that same boat mentality is the reason I posted in the first place. I was trying to discuss the simple fact that there are other options available. Whether a 1-2 million dollar offer from a distr company is real or hypothetical the premise and the discussion was still the same and potentially meaningful.

However your most recent comments as well as your comments in the previous thread are more about disproving the real from the hypothetical. That is a hater mentality and it most certainly is NOT a same boat mentality.

Sonny your wisdom and experience would be much more appreciated if it didn't come with the overwhelming message that comes with it. This is all I have done or seen so that is where the limits of possible and impossible lie for everyone.

Cracker if you have thoughts or tweaks for my strategy (one that I have only outlined a sliver of) I would be more than happy to hear them. I have never said Im not open to that. If any of you took a moment to look into what we are doing you would see its an open book completely interactive we take ideas and critiques from fans everyday and base everything we do off of those fan interactions.

I take issue on the tone in which many of you write your "comments" and "opinions" you present them as facts and definitive limits. I have repeatedly made it clear I think it is completely counter productive and demeaning to myself and other posters when you force your disbelief on others.

Whether their dreams, ideas, goals, or plans are completely foolish and ill fated in your mind you have know right to deter or discourage from chasing THEIR dream. That is NOT same boat mentality.

Im once again trying to show you the revolution is under way. You wanna actually put some credibility and truth into that "same boat" mentality you think whether you believe in the plan or not you would support the idea. The simple success of me or anyone else creating a successful release on VOD before a DVD distribution deal would provide every filmmaker that threat in negotiations.

 

[Dreadylocks]

Personally, I don't care how talented you may prove to be. I bet you'd be a biotch to work with/for.

This.

When I run into folks like the OP in real life (which is unfortunately inevitable), I find the best policy is to just ignore them. There are plenty of talented folks out there who are kind and also have manners. Why waste your time with touchy egomaniacs?








Countdown to being insulted by OP in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Ernest Worthing]

I missed the original argument so i can not and will not comment on the behaviour or validity of any sides there may have been.

I can say from experience that CF and Boo are helpful members of this community so perhaps things may have been a little misunderstood.

I do not vouch for them just because they are friends on this forum but because i know their general attitude over a long times. I would do the same for you if i had a long running insight into your nature and it was good.

Perhaps a fresh start, everyone?

 

[Ernest Worthing]

Countdown to being insulted by OP in 3... 2... 1...

Come now, Dready. Comments/presumptions like these just further enrage parties. Let's not forget one of the reasons why we love this forum here compared to others. The lack of flame wars.

 

[Dreadylocks]

You're right Ernest. I've just been biting my tongue since the original thread. I guess I finally broke down. I won't say I'm proud of myself for the low-blow, but I'm only human

 

[bodenseebob]

Gratwick Films way to go!!!
Now why do you care about anything here? You are right and doing outstanding things yet you have time to come back here and insult everyone who gave you what you were asking for... Their opinion. How about skipping the negative and leave some advice for everyone on how your success is going? You might find you will be happier than you already are!!!
have a nice day!!

 

[Ernest Worthing]

You're right Ernest. I've just been biting my tongue since the original thread. I guess I finally broke down. I won't say I'm proud of myself for the low-blow, but I'm only human

I was just thinking, it's easy for me to be the calm person since i missed the original argument so kudos to you

 

[Gonzo_Entertainment]

"Im once again trying to show you the revolution is under way. "

I actually hope it isn't. There are a LOT of good things about the old model. It's imperfect, it could stand an update, but not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[sonnyboo]

To whoever asked if I made 1-2 million dollars yet. Come on if you looked at ANYTHING I provided you, you would see the release is October 1st. Ask me Novemeber 1st.

So, you're saying you haven't made your $1-$2 million dollars by turning down a studio offers of distribution from LIONSGATE or UNIVERSAL and self distributing your feature film with VIDEO ON DEMAND?

Then what has happened that people said you couldn't do? From the looks of your own video, it looked like a lot of empty theater seats in small screens....Your own production team talking about how disappointed they were in the screenings.... These are rhetorical questions, as in I don't really care what the answers are. They are more for myself pondering the psychology of the first time feature filmmaker syndrome.

I'm sure simultaneously, you are writing responses to every single line by every single person. This is an exercise in futility. I sincerely hope you get everything you want out of your film, but you will never ever get me to think it is anything other than first feature film syndrome wherein an overzealous filmmaker is too in love with their work to see the reality of the business and the mathematical certainties that it is less likely to be a $1 million movie rather than an obscurity of every other indie film being made today.

Some people will not like your movie. Some people may not believe in your marketing plan. Some people may think your film won't make a dime. So what? If you believe in the film as much as you say, then why are you worried about the naysayers? Just do the work, succeed and live the better life. Make the movies you make, and revel in the fans you get.

Just don't worry about the naysayers, even me. If you want me to respond further, take it off the board and email me directly and leave the personal responses away from IT.

 

[bird]

I'm human as well, Dready and I totally agree with your assessment as to the huge number of talented people one can choose to deal with, without the added drama of ego. Ernest admitted he did not read the original thread, so cannot really comment as to how valid your "presumption" of what Gratwick's response might be. Many of Gratwick's nasty comments were deleted. So, to clear the air, I'm more than happy to hear of his success, but based on this and his past thread...I stand by my declaration. My perogative.

 

[Kholi]

"Im once again trying to show you the revolution is under way. "

I actually hope it isn't. There are a LOT of good things about the old model. It's imperfect, it could stand an update, but not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Agreed.

And, to the OP, IMO I'd be careful about hailing my own material as the next coming of indie success...

I read a few posts in the other thread and immediately went to find the trailer... I think you guys put in a lot of effort and it's awesome to finish a feature... humble pie is a great snack. Gareth Edwards made something that's beyond most of our capacities, and having friends who've met him he doesn't seem like someone who even thinks he's the next Kevin Smith.

We're all here to peer up, not so much compete I'd say, and alienating other filmmakers in a tiny business like this isn't necessarily the best idea.

 

[Gratwick Films]

This.

When I run into folks like the OP in real life (which is unfortunately inevitable), I find the best policy is to just ignore them. There are plenty of talented folks out there who are kind and also have manners. Why waste your time with touchy egomaniacs?


I got the email with the original post and I will respond to it.

I CONTINUE to fail to see where these ridiculous assumptions come from about me. I've explained time and again i find the "insight" and "assistance" Cracker and Sonny portray themselves as giving as very condescending and derogatory.

Im talking about live and let live and your all condemning me as the instigator. Im sorry that everyone on this board seems to think that telling you what is and isn't possible or what you can't do is considered "great characters and posters"

Where I grew up and everywhere i've been when you stifle or shit on peoples dreams your a hater no matter how much you want to consider yourself a teach or a mentor.

I posted the links and information on this page to prove that Sonny has NO CLUE what is or is not possible. That doesn't make him a horrible person or any other unnecessary name. I would more than welcome creative, productive comments, questions or critiques yet every response from these two is filled with negativity and absolutes about why not. As well as the occasional snipers that monkey see monkey do.

I was hoping to inspire the yet to be established filmmakers like myself that ANYTHING is possible! Just because Sonny has carved out a modest living he is happy with doesn't mean that is all of our definitions of success. Sonny shot for down the street, I'm shooting for the moon. Different people, different ambitions.

If standing up for my dream, executing it in the face of doubters and then telling others they to can do it make you assume I'm arrogant or a bitch to work with then thats your disfunction not mine.

FYI - Good luck finding one person to support your ridiculous assumption about "bitch to work with" my cast, crew and partners are some of the most talented and loyal people anyone could ask for and the reason for that is like me everything starts with loyalty, support and opportunity.

If that makes me or my people arrogant, so be it. We have the work to back it up and the ability and the desire to give good people GREAT opportunities.

My hope was that Sonny and Cracker would have been humble enough to realize whether I succeed financially or not at this point, they were wrong about where the limits of what is possible are.

This is my final post I've tried to expand the limits of whats possible for all of you. You want to expand your ambitions further feel free to contact me on facebook.

 

[Ernest Worthing]

Oh, i see.