Stabbing a dummy

sfoster

sfoster

Staff Member
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A character gets repeatedly stabbed in the back.

I'd like to put their shirt on some kind of dummy and get a few close up shots of the stabbing with some cool practical effects of the knife going in clean and then coming out with blood.

Any thoughts on the cheapest and/or best route to achieve this?
 
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Why do you have to have a stabbing? Have your characters talk out their problems instead. Then you don't need to film that scene- you're welcome! Here's a bit of conflict resolution dialogue you can use below, it's not good but it's a start-- have you characters work through problems- that's what the audience really wants to see, not ugliness..

Dude#1
I don't know why I brought this knife but you made me so..angry.

Dude#2
I guess I've pissed you off pretty bad.

Dude#1
It feels good in my hand.

Dude#2
You must feel powerful.

Dude#1
Yeah, I guess..
 
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What's wrong with showing it?
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If you can pull it off convincingly there's nothing wrong with showing. Do it poorly and you'll wish you "cheated" it in the first place.

I was under the impression you asked for cheapest options, as well as the best options.

Reaction shots and implied shots coupled with sound effects are a great and often cheap way to sell the experience of a scene instead of needing to spend the unnecessary time and expense of shooting a complex special effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VP5jEAP3K4

If you really want to do it practically, I'd suggest using the right angles, well timed cuts and old school practical effects (blood spurted through a tube etc).

That all being said, it's hard to know what to suggest. We cannot see what's wrong with your scene until you show us.
 
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I did something similar years ago with a fake knife that had a collapsible blade - when you pushed it against something, the blade retracted into the handle so that it looked as if it was going into the body. That and some good fake blood - plus of course you need to rip/tear the shirt the right way - and quick cuts in the editing sold the scene.
 
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Damn.. what if I find some roadkill like a deer or something, put a shirt on it and stab it's body???
Lol.

I could maybe do a collapsible blade but i'd need one that matches the knife i already used.

sweetie you say use angles, etc to avoid "unnecessary time and expense of shooting a complex special effect. " but then you link a scene that took an ENITRE WEEK of full days of shooting to pull off. Would be hell of a lot faster to do a sfx than try to do a scene like the shower stabbing in psycho.
 
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sfoster said:
Damn.. what if I find some roadkill like a deer or something, put a shirt on it and stab it's body???
Lol.
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What's really going on sfoster? It sounds like you're asking for help. It's not funny that you want to shove knives into dead animals. Does that deer you want to dress up and stab represent your father? I want to help you but you first have to want help.
 
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Sasa said:
What's really going on sfoster? It sounds like you're asking for help. It's not funny that you want to shove knives into dead animals. Does that deer you want to dress up and stab represent your father? I want to help you but you first have to want help.
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Here is thing about dead animals.. you've got to start off slow, stab them in the belly, etc.
You can't just immediately pull out a stick and start poking them in the eye.
 
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I'd think you could get your shot quite easily and cheaply.

Assuming your going for an extreme close up (so the shape of the body doesn't really matter), why not try something as simple as a cushion, with a blood pack on top, and the shirt over this. As you stab into the cushion, through the blood pack, the fake blood is released, dirtying the blade and staining the shirt in just the right place. If the cushion is too soft, you could try something a little more solid, perhaps something made of polystyrene (what exactly, I don't know). You can make a blood pack by filling a zip-lock bag with fake blood. Just don't over fill it, other wise it might burst open with the first blow. If the blood gushes from that too fast, you could try putting a sponge in the bag, saturated with blood.

Just ideas - there has to be cheapo way to do this. It can't be that difficult. Try it. It might end up looking crap, but I don't think you've got much to lose.
 
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Thanks hatter, some good ideas there.

I know from my drag experience you can use an electric carving knife (like for a turkey) to reshape foam/cushion and give it whatever shape you want. but yeah I am going for an extreme close up!

The blood pack is probably the really tricky part.. perhaps some combination of ziplock bags and the right amount of blood would sell the effect. cheap enough to find out with some water and food dye to test. I've got a bunch of 2x-3xl shirts that don't fit me anymore :)
 
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Sfoster, why are you unable to explore the reasons behind your desire to film ultra violence? Do you think the world needs more films with stabbings- why not promote the ideas of peace and reconciliation? You mentioned your weight in another thread..is that related?

The posts here from people telling how to do this are fools, they're not trying to help you. They're getting off on the violence you propose, it's a closed circuit of feeblemindedness. I'm the only one who's actually trying to help you and you're ignoring me.

Why? Why? Why? Let's begin..
 
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I don't think you need any blood. You only need the knife going in. Then you cut. The key is that the dummy moves the way that the guy does in the shot that you already have.
 
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Personally, I'd agree with Sweetie on this one. Having read your script, it never struck me as the type of film that would go out of its way to show the violence. I doubt a closeup of the stabbing would help the scene much. Without the actor's head there, it just wouldn't look right. Are you able to get the actor back to possibly composite their head onto the dummy?


sfoster said:
a lot faster to do a sfx than try to do a scene like the shower stabbing in psycho.
Click to expand...


Plus that scene looks like crap and never once does she appear to get stabbed.
 
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mussonman said:
Personally, I'd agree with Sweetie on this one. Having read your script, it never struck me as the type of film that would go out of its way to show the violence. I doubt a closeup of the stabbing would help the scene much. Without the actor's head there, it just wouldn't look right. Are you able to get the actor back to possibly composite their head onto the dummy?
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Well I don't have a dummy. And you don't really see the knife either, since her attacker comes out of nowhere so quickly. You can't tell whats going on so I need to do SOMETHING.

I think mara's suggestion will work now that i go back over the footage... you see a bunch of peoples knives but you never see this particular persons knife. So if I get one that is retractable when you stab, it won't matter if it matches or not.. and i can avoid the blood I just need to show it going in once or twice.

A knife going in and out would be really clear. It's at night time so the blood isn't going to show up very well anyway.

I'm not about graphic violence but it's a serious failure if you are confusing your audience with what they see.
 
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Sasa said:
Sfoster, why are you unable to explore the reasons behind your desire to film ultra violence? Do you think the world needs more films with stabbings- why not promote the ideas of peace and reconciliation? You mentioned your weight in another thread..is that related?

The posts here from people telling how to do this are fools, they're not trying to help you. They're getting off on the violence you propose, it's a closed circuit of feeblemindedness. I'm the only one who's actually trying to help you and you're ignoring me.

Why? Why? Why? Let's begin..
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I think it boils down to the emasculation i feel as an american male.

It's never okay to hit someone, I might end up in jail or sued. So there is all this pent up aggression from 33 years living emasculated in a cage and I need to express myself somehow
 
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Can't you make it clear with sound design?
A lot of action scenes rely on the sounds to create the illusion of 'contact', 'impact' and 'friction'. Even when actors don't even hit each other.

Compositing a head on a dummy will probably look fake.
Such things are done often, but that is when there is money to hire skilled people to make it look real enough.

I don't know what the scene looks like, but making it clear by making it look fake is the kind of dilemma you need to avoid.
 
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