Name Actors - How much $?

F

finderskeepers

Hello,
I'm doing post production on my no-budget feature now. I have a unique aspect of the plot - the story opens in the year 2000 and then the rest of the story take place in 2010 with one flashback. This means I can ad a scene with a Name Actor filmed at a different time and place than the rest of the story.

Does anyone know about how much money is needed to put a lower level B-movie actor in your film? I'm looking to get someone who can help us get at least some type of distribution. (Even if we don't get our money back) Anyone done this before?
Thank you in advance,
Joe
 
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Just a sidenote. I had several SAG actors show up for auditions on a non-union feature. I had to ask them if they were worried about SAG finding out. Sadly, most of them said something like ->"Nobody, really watches these indie movies. They'll never see it" Kinda depressing 8-(
 
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brianluce said:
You're digging again. I thought we talked about this...
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How about you agreeing to disagree? Hmm?

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That's crazy.
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Yep, that's right. Those at the top of the SAG food chain want you to bus tables instead of working on indie films so they can keep their steady income (we're talking at a multifold higher rate than the average SAG member). That, my friend, is no union.

I'm against unions. I think the UAW did a lot to harm the auto industry in Michigan
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SAG is not a conventional union. Unions are necessary to keep financial parity reasonable, never mind your working conditions. The auto industry killed themselves without any help at all from their employees. Instead of investing in the future like other automakers around the world, Detroit kept cranking out high profit SUVs.
 
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The funny thing is British Equity and I think the Australian Union don't forbid actors from doing non-union productions. (Please correct me if I'm wrong UK/AU filmmakers) It's odd how they can have no restrictions there yet in the US there is a prohibition on union performers in non-union productions.

Aspiring Mogul said:
You mean SAG members can't work on non-union films??? That's crazy.
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finderskeepers said:
The funny thing is British Equity and I think the Australian Union don't forbid actors from doing non-union productions. (Please correct me if I'm wrong UK/AU filmmakers) It's odd how they can have no restrictions there yet in the US there is a prohibition on union performers in non-union productions.
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Yep, Equity describes itself as 'the actor's union' but its importance has really diminished and a lot of actors don't even bother joining. I still find all these threads about SAG concerns slightly perplexing because, here in the UK, if you can persuade a famous actor to join your production- they can join it, no extra woe.
 
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I think SAG has worked hard to modify their agreement to allow
actors to work for far lower wages than their standard minimum. As
they work on and modify their various low budget agreements they
make mistakes. What group of humans have not?

SAG does not forbid their members from working non union. The guild
does not like it and they discourage it and they claim to impose “serious
fines” but they very, very rarely punish actors who work non-guild
projects. Of course we hear about those rare cases and not the millions
of times no one is punished. I work regularly with SAG actors on my
non-SAG shoots. I have also been turned down by SAG members who
will not work on my non union shows.

For those of you against unions I say first that I respect that and your
opinion; I will not and am not trying to change you opinion. Those of
you can (and should) never sign an agreement with any of the unions
as you make you movies.

However...

There can be a need for the trade and craft unions and guilds in the
entertainment business. Many producers over the years have exploited
the desires and dreams of the many people who want to work in this
business - actors, writers, directors and all the crew crafts. And I’m not
talking just about wages. Working conditions are agreed upon by the
producers/studios and the unions. On non union shows the workers
have no say when a producer asks for consecutive 14/16 hour days for
less than minimum wage. Other than quitting. The guilds and unions
act as a group to ensure the wages are good and the working conditions
are fair.

I’m sure many aspiring moguls and producer will treat their cast and crew
with respect. But many do not. The good news is many union and guild
members are willing to work on non union projects.

Guerrilla; you know that SAG itself has nothing at all to do with those
making multifold higher rates then the average member. SAG sets the
minimum which as of Nov 2011 is $82.50 per hour. That’s much higher
than what most people think of as a “living wage”. Those actors making
much, much more than the minimum exist not because SAG isn’t much
of a union, but because employers are willing to pay much, much higher
than the minimum. The disparity between the haves and have nots has
noting to do with the guild. There are more actors than there are jobs. And
then there are actors who can (and do) get far far more money. The guild
should not (in my opinion) spread that wealth among all the members.

Aspiring Mogul; you do not go through SAG to cast a project - they are not
a casting agency, only a guild (or union). There are hundreds of casting
services who find talent for producers. Casting directors, casting agencies
and casting web sites are everywhere. That is where you would go to set
up a casting call for actors.

Just to be clear if any of you actually read this long post; I am not saying
SAG is flawless or that unions or guilds are perfect or that all producers
should like and/or use them. All of you who hate unions or are angry at
unions or who feel they do not promote equality and who will not work with
unions or guilds have my total respect and understanding.
 
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I agree unions have been important in getting workers better wages and benefits, but my problem is that they have engaged in tactics to discourage non-union workers from offering competing services. I'd love to start a separate thread on this. Anyone game for a friendly conversation? :)

As for casting agencies, I presume I can get competent starving actors for minimum wage?
 
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The guild should not (in my opinion) spread that wealth among all the members.
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To be considered a conventional union, it pretty much HAS to do that. It's not going to happen, so mentioning SAG and union in the same sentence would be factually incorrect in most cases.

I suppose SAG will be forced to keep changing the way they operate because there's nothing conventional about filmmaking these days.
 
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Every time I've asked an informed person about SAG rules and regs, I get completely baffled and lost in the weeds. I do know that SAG actors will work on NON SAG productions, and if it's a short and not a feature, it's much easier to do stay below radar.

Here's a stupid thing I did once. Somewhere I heard that $100 was "SAG Minimum". So when I did the casting call, I wrote something like "$100/day (SAG minimum)". Ambiguous. I wasn't trying to trick people into thinking it was a SAG project, actually I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. But at the end of the shoot, the actor had been operating with the assumption it was SAG sanctioned. Luckily the actor was cool about the whole thing.

@Mogul: I did a casting call, NON SAG, through a Hollywood agency. It was no problem, bunch of actors showed up. No issue. But I don't know what if any laws were broken. No one said anything.
 
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I've been wondering, the competition/anti-trust laws in the US are very powerful, so, if SAG has a restriction, and it was the major union to go to, wouldn't that violate competition laws?

@Brian, how much would actors cost, if you're starting out? Did you get any name actors?
 
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brianluce said:
@Mogul: I did a casting call, NON SAG, through a Hollywood agency. It was no problem, bunch of actors showed up. No issue. But I don't know what if any laws were broken. No one said anything.
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SAG isn't a government agency. There aren't any actual laws about a guild members working on non-guild projects. It's all just guild rules enforced by fines, like DirectoRik said.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
As for casting agencies, I presume I can get competent starving actors for minimum wage?
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In California that would be $88 per 10 hour day. At that rate I don't know
if casting agencies would be your option. You could hire a casting director
or just send out notices yourself and go through all the resumes. At the
rate of $88 per day you will get hundreds of resumes from actors. Many
will be competent - almost none will be guild members.

I believe the SAG ULB agreement is $100 per day. That's $1.09 more
than minimum wage for a 10 hour day. SAG ULB has a no pay at all
agreement for short films. Use the SAG members - pay them nothing.

GuerrillaAngel said:
To be considered a conventional union, it pretty much HAS to do that. It's not going to happen, so mentioning SAG and union in the same sentence would be factually incorrect in most cases.
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Which is why SAG has always been a Guild and not a Union. They set the
minimum wage and allow its members to negotiate a better deal if they can.
No one can work for less - everyone can negotiate for more. SAG has never
been and never will be a conventional labor union.
Aspiring Mogul said:
I've been wondering, the competition/anti-trust laws in the US are very powerful, so, if SAG has a restriction, and it was the major union to go to, wouldn't that violate competition laws?
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A producer does not have to sign an agreement with SAG. A producer can
hire non guild actors (and non union crew) and make a movie. Actors (and
crew) have the right to leave their guild or union to accept work. And actor
who chooses not to leave the guild has the right to stay with the guild and
abide by their rules. Check the current use of "FiCore" or "Fi-Core".

Many actors choose to use "FiCore" but many choose not to. There is no
anti-trust issue in that personal choice. I'm not suggesting that the Guild
or the labor unions are perfect. I am a guild member (WGA) and a member
of four IA (union) locals - I also write for non signatory companies and
work non union films and TV shows. I know many Guild actors you work
non signatory projects often. I have never met an actor who was fined or
removed from the guild. I'm sure it has happened - I just don't know of any
cases.

As a producer you can negotiate a deal with each individual. They can accept
or not accept. No laws violated.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
I should be able to pay $100 a day, for awhile, at least. But, Directorik, what do you mean by using a SAG actor and paying him nothing?
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The SAG Indie agreement has a short film contract. It
limits the avenues of distribution so it is not the right
contract for every producer of short films. But it does
allow SAG actors to work for no pay at all.
 
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If actors are just doing it to get credits or for the hell of it, then I'd be fine with paying them nothing. But I have been treated badly in the past, so I don't want to take advantage of others, so, if I have to pay, I have to pay. Or at least provide a good meal at the end of the day or have some snacks between takes.

What about film crew? How much would they cost?
 
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