Hijacking a thread!: Let's play What If...

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...firstly, I am hijacking a thread. The independant movie industry one is making my head hurt.

...However, I actually got an idea when looking it over...

...In my home town, there are two small independently owned movie theaters. They both only have one screen. Now, of course, there are the 'movieplexes'; GKC and AMC, but these two little theaters are second run houses.

...In the metro Detroit area, there are two independantly owned and operated theaters that are well known for showing independant films, (the Maple and Main Art Theaters).

...I would think that there are little one screen theaters all over the country like these, one screen, showing art, indie or second run films.

...What if these owners could be convinced that there is an audience for indie film (because there is) and also be impressed upon to make some sort of 'commitment to showing indie film? What if they could become maybe a co-op (?), where they decide and agree that okay, we will show 'Primer', we will show 'Murderball', we will show 'Memento', show 'Supersize Me' or whatever indie film is being appreciated.

...since Hollywood wants so much to show 'Dukes of Hazzard', fine. These theaters could commit to showing these small films that people hear just won at Sundance or Cannes or Slamdance or what have you as an alternative to the usual fare.

...maybe, since they know (indie filmmakers can impress this upon them) that indie filmmakers are usually just this side of broke, they can give cut rates to these filmmakers. This way, they have more films to choose from with an almost guaranteed audience of people who want more to watch than yet another car chase and explosion and the indie filmmakers have a place to show.

...since these films are often considered to be 'art' and therefore present a service to the community, maybe they could be advertised on the televised community bulletin boards that tv stations sometimes use to satisfy fcc regulations of community service and therefore would be free advertising.

...maybe an agreement could be made to show, say 'Primer' for about 2 weeks. If it does well (relatively well) give another week. If not, well, it had a 2 week run in a theater which is enough time for people to find the film and like it or not like it. People vote with thier pocketbooks.

...if the film gets discovered by Hollywood the way 'Resevouir Dogs' did, then okay, the film gets picked up, and good luck, but since the indie theaters made the initial committment to a film that was initially ignored by the Big Industry, something is given in exchange for the 'release' of this film to the bigger distributor, like 'This film discovered by Indie Co-op Theaters' or something like that. Something that would make it worth the risk of taking on the film in the first place and to make up for the loss of a film that might have a distribution machine to push it and possibly take it to the level of a blockbuster film.

...it would be nice if the cost of making the film could be lowered also, at least a little, like equipment rental or film transfer, so that people could have real access to services to produce the film. (I personally am tired of hearing people say they charge what the market will bear. People pay this because they have to in order to get their vision made. Not because they are happy to do so. No more, no less).

...this is about as far as I got on this 'idea'. Somebody with more business know how than I might be able to come up with a way to make this work...

--spinner :cool:
 
CootDog said:
The thing is, there is a NEED in the industry for this and I can't believe that there is not an indie cinema distributor.

I think that the indie film industry, as a whole, is getting more and more popular.

But are there theater distributors that cater to indie films?


Coot--there must be distributors for indie (theater) films because there are indie theaters scattered about. I know of the Angelika and the Film Forum in NYC. I believe there is also one in Philadelphia (but I can't recall the name).

As a side note--my wife and I honeymooned in NYC and we (being the movie buffs we are) went to see Trainspotting and Welcome to the Dollhouse at the Angelika when they were in their theatrical runs.

But I think the sad reality is -- indie theater is not ready to survive on a grand scale because the general public just isn't interested. Lately, the term 'indie' has been used and abused by the movie industry as a marketing gimic much in the same way that all pop music got labeled 'alternative' in the early nineties. The 'indie' movies that are making it big-time in the Hollywood scene usually don't look very 'indie' to me. More on sad reality -- there is a reason Hollywood keeps churning out the same stuff over and over again...people keep buying it. That's what we are used to, so that's what we come to expect. Small pockets of people (like the members of this board) might get fed up and seek out something different, but small pockets of people scattered about are not enough to effect an overhaul of the industry...or for that matter, to bring about a new industry to compete at the same level.

Ultimately, it takes marketing to drive the people to your product. This is where the indie scene is challenged the most (and Clive has discussed this in much greater depth and detail in other posts on this same subject). Indie film promoters don't expect tremendous revenue from indie films, so they can't afford to market it in the same way as major studios can. Little marketing budget = low public awareness = poor product performance.

I just read back what I wrote and I realize I sound very negative. I will have to think on this some more and try to work on possible solutions (just for fun!).
 
I agree with you John, but on the flip side;

Indie-filmmakers don't spend as much on thier films as Hollywood = Our advantage.

We just need to figure out a way to lower the cost of marketing (using the internet) and we'll survive! For a feature that spends under $50,000- the goal of profit is definitely attainable! It's just about getting the word out there without being bought out by the hollywood system. Too many indie-flicks get "re-made" by Hollywood, instead of being released "as is".
If we can find a way to effectively market indie movies without selling rights- that's where the gold is!

I'd say we start on the web- move to DVD distribution, and eventually limited theatrical release... I dunno about you guys, but I don't need to make millions- just enough to get by to the next film... and if we can double our budgets on DVD sales alone, then why not?

What do you guys think about this idea: Any indie flicks who plan on self-distributing can group up and split the cost for a set of DVDs- those DVDs contain all the trailers to the other flicks, and when one person from the group sells a copy, they ship a "trailer" DVD as well?
I guess it's a form of marketing- would it be worth it?
 
That is acrually a great idea Spatula.

What I have in my head after reading your post is just that, a group. That group will then add their trailers to the each others DVD's. So in the special features section there would be thetrailers.

How would each member in the group for sure know that their trailer is on everyone's DVD and vice, versa... Unless it's a 3rd party burning them. Plus making posters, post cards, and other SWAG.
 
I'd say we start on the web- move to DVD distribution, and eventually limited theatrical release... I dunno about you guys, but I don't need to make millions- just enough to get by to the next film... and if we can double our budgets on DVD sales alone, then why not?

My thinking has always been that the cinema end of the deal would be part of the marketing strategy to drive direct DVD sales.

My current thinking is that a web site (let's for the sake of arguement call it "indiecinema") would sell DVD's direct to the public. The main difference would be that rather than restricting the usage of the DVd we would actively encourage people who buy to run "indiecinema" events. This means anyone who buys a DVD can set up a venue and show the film in their area. They can even make a profit from it, because they don't pay anymore than the $10 they paid to buy the DVd online.

However on the front of every DVD is a promo for the direct DVD sales and trailers for other films. This is what drives the sales.

In real terms there is no reason why a set up like Custon-Flicks could serve this kind of set-up reducing the cost even further for the filmmaker.

We're then talking abut a simple proposition, changing the DVD sales contract and having a website that acts as a sales ptich for the concept.

The concept, "You can run your own indie cinema and get films for no more than $10"

I don't know, this is as far as I've got with this.
 
CootDog said:
How would each member in the group for sure know that their trailer is on everyone's DVD and vice, versa... Unless it's a 3rd party burning them. Plus making posters, post cards, and other SWAG.

I'd imagine there would have to be a third party involved anyway- point is, if enough features combine resources and pitch the idea to a small mastering/duplication service, we'll get loads of discounts.
I've been looking into duplication, and it's roughly $3000 for 2000 DVDs. That's a huge profit margin at $10 a DVD.

They can even make a profit from it, because they don't pay anymore than the $10 they paid to buy the DVd online.

That might be a good incentive- but I think you'd want to keep track of where the movie is screening somewhere- that's where places like Indietalk might come in hand- a place to advertise your screenings...
But what if an indie-theatre owner purchased a DVD and held a screening every week?
I don't think that would increase DVD sales- my thoughts are it would be difficult to control, or there would be some legal aspects conflicting.
There could be a set of options though- own the DVD for $10, or "Rent" the rights for a month for $100 (which is still a fair price! And they get to keep the DVD!).
I dunno- just trying to fuel this fire- this was a great discussion!
 
I have been looking into duplication machines and DVD screenprinting, although the covers and books will be outsourced.

What would you like to see in a site like we are discussing? I've also been talking to the local theater here and they are open to showing an indie flic for a few days, no charge and we'd get a % of the box office.
 
Wow, Coot- Impressive proactivity there! :) Clive, Spats, etal- great idea. I have been following this thread for a while. If there's anything I can do, let me know. Don't know how much help I'd be, but this is a great idea.
 
It's a local cinema here in Elgin, IL. I have been thinking about doing a film festival there since there are hotels nearby and they have 20 screens I believe. I'm not ready to do a fest right now, but perhaps sometime soon. It would be WAY cheaper than Chicago.

But yes, I want to develop a business plan for this and figure out how you all think we should get this started. I want it to be a community thing.
 
Coot- business planning is something I know how to do. Wrote a biggie a few years ago for the family real estate business- got $120k. The banker surprisingly, suggested I should template and sell my plan- said it was the best he'd ever seen. I was completely floored as it was my first one.

Not trying to toot my horn (very much). Just thinking of ways to help you.
 
Our cinema in town offers (brand new) digital dvd projection for ~US$1000 for 2 off hour screenings. If I were to do something in town here, which I would love, I would need to either find a sponsor for it, or make sure the box office take would cover that cost. I would like to see "real" indie film (no offense to the big budget folks out there) legitimized by getting this going. On a purely selfish note, I'm hoping my movie would do well enough to make it to the circuit (Assuming we're blending all of these ideas for a distribution channel here).

I would think with as many different ideas that have come up, once the footings are in place, we should get the specifics on paper so the expectations are consistent.
 
Let's turn up the heat on this and formulate a real plan.

knightly said:
Assuming we're blending all of these ideas for a distribution channel here.

I would think with as many different ideas that have come up, once the footings are in place, we should get the specifics on paper so the expectations are consistent.

I think that's exactly what we're trying to do, at least that's what I want...

So I hypothetically, I get a chain of 10 cinema's you get 5, someone gets 2, and so on to get about 25 cinema's willing to do a short run on an indie film. So then what?

They run the film for 3 days and keep the Box Office up to the rental amount then the remaining amount is pure profit to Indie Flics, which would in turn cut a check to the filmmaker/producer/whatever?

So 25 cinemas show an indie film for 3 days, say for easy reference 3 times a day. That's 225 showings.
Then we'll say 100 people in seats per show paying an average of $8.00 = $180,000

Even if rental costs $100,000 that's still a chunk of change. AND more important, you had over 20,000 people see the flic.

The main thing that's needed for that to be a success is promotions and publicity!
It has to be played up in the local media where these theaters reside.

So what's needed for that? a promotions package to each theater including posters, stickers, and other swag?

BUT now we're talking about the big time and while I have contacts to do the swag (promotions) it all costs money. So is there a fee that we'd have to charge for this? Do we hand pick the films?

Then after the release in the theaters what will we do, offer them on Amazon, Netflix, IndieFlics, etc? :hmm:


And Lilith, I'm ALL FOR you writing the business plan!
 
There's an independent cinema (the Paramount) about a half hour from me in Fremont, OH. They usually surprisingly, have first run A list Hollywood fare. I will approach them next week about this idea, once I have recovered from my shoot this weekend.

Also, there's a well known indie cinema in Cleveland- Cinemateque I think. They do lots of indie films already. They also do great public domain film screenings. That is the kind of market where you could reliably sell 100 per show.

Also, a smaller venue is Talkies Film & Coffee Bar in the Market District in Cleveland. They only seat 40 I think, but they'd love the publicity.
 
what I was thinking was that the local cinema would determine the commercial viability of a given film based on box/population. New films would be publicized locally by the filmmakers if at all, and Above a certain box/pop metric, it would hit the circuit with the fanfare that went with that. That way the channel itself determines where to spend the money.

There could also be a middle metric that has stuff go national/international without the publicity to see if it is commercially viable in a venue other than it's home court...or perhaps local premeires, then distant screening to determine commercial viability (to get rid of home court advantage).

This would allow the swag to be purchased based on better odds of financial success and still allow just about anyone to get their movie screened. Could be marketed as having the audience be the jury with voting cards to rate movies in the metric showing or something. Winners there go on to national distribution with all the publicity that surrounds that.
 
I shall send a letter to the Hull screen cinema (UK) about this distribution idea and let you all know of my findings. However i believe it will only effectively work if you get the cinema on a "no sales no fee" meaning we take a percentage of the box office (example we take 15%, the cinema takes 85%).

With digital distribution becoming more widespread it can only lower the costs much to our benefit...
 
Knightly,

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here... So we have a film, say "Earth Pulse" that has been completed by an indie. Their home town is in Paris, ID where there is no digital cinema. Without a local cinema, how could they use IndieFlics?
So "Earth Pulse" is sent to IndieFlics but since there's no cinema in Paris, ID they would have to premeir it at the cinema in our network located in Boise, ID?

Are you saying to do a test at one local cinema and get the demographics. Then from that information and the results of the screening, release that info the the network of cinema's and have them choose if they want to show the film or not?


What I was thinking was that IndieFlics would be the resource the indie filmmakers could use to get their film on the big screen.
 
What the!!? I didn't realize!

I just contacted some of the local theater HQ's that are located near me and DAMN! :eek: I didn't realize how many were in their networks!

Name/Screens/Cinemas
Century Cinemas/?/12
Marcus Theatres/468/44
Kerasotes Showplace/522/81
Regal Entertainment Group/3656/304
Nova Cinemas/71/15
Goodrich/293/35
Cinemark/2979/275 sites in US, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Columbia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Peru :eek:

I mean DAMN! and I found a great place that lists all the above information. Some of the smaller joints are not in there but check out this link: http://www.cinematour.com/circuits.php
 
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CootDog said:
Knightly,

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here... So we have a film, say "Earth Pulse" that has been completed by an indie. Their home town is in Paris, ID where there is no digital cinema. Without a local cinema, how could they use IndieFlics?
So "Earth Pulse" is sent to IndieFlics but since there's no cinema in Paris, ID they would have to premeir it at the cinema in our network located in Boise, ID?

Are you saying to do a test at one local cinema and get the demographics. Then from that information and the results of the screening, release that info the the network of cinema's and have them choose if they want to show the film or not?


What I was thinking was that IndieFlics would be the resource the indie filmmakers could use to get their film on the big screen.

Yes...that is what I'm saying. This way the filmmaker gets at least x guaranteed screenings of their film. X being the number of times that has been established to metric the film.

After that, audience reaction becomes the indicator for a films success, the audiences vote with their money in the distribution channel. These numbers are kept by a group of folks who release those numbers to the channel...If the individual theater is screening a particular film really well, they can choose to keep playing it, where the other theaters can pull it after the screening obligation is met or the film falls below the metric overall. Part of this ends up being part of what people don't like about hollywood, the filmmaker who wants to make money and keep the film in the channel (this is a business after all) will need to make commercially viable films (this doesn't necessarily mean hollywood fluff - which I like, but interesting, well shot and edited films). It will push the low/no budget expectations up and make the industry more visible by the mainstream. It also will make another avenue by which talent agencies can scout new folks to represent. Good for us (indie filmmakers) as well as we get more exposure with less out of pocket expenses.

The content would be submitted with a $5-20 fee (TBD) and the filmmaker would get a cut of the box for each screening of their film. Possibly cut of net after expenses for putting this all together (theater rental, promotion, etc). If the film is liked by the public, the filmmaker will continue to recieve $$$, if not, it stays in the channel for whatever theme nights we may hold or whatever. They will continue to get residuals as the movies are screened.
 
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