How much to do these two scenes?

There is no need for dry ice.

White background is white paper roll dropping from the ceiling. You can even make it drop from C-stands/light stands.

You can either shoot a white background in a large space and then you don't have to exclude boundaries, because the space is going to be large and everything in view of the camera will be white.

The excluding boundaries thing comes into play if you don't have access to a large space. Then you do the things in the small space, and there will be other things in view of the camera, but later in post production you cut it out of the shot and put a matching computer generated background in the places you cut out.

Hope that makes more sense.

Anyway. You don't have to understand everything. You just need to know what's possible. So when you interview someone, you have some idea of how to direct the questions.

I interviewed a sound guy today. I know nothing about sound. But just because of what I read here, I asked him a couple of questions and I understood his particular workflow, and what he cared about and what he didn't care about, and I realized that this person was not for me. He knows much more about sound that I do, but I understood enough to know, that somebody else I interviewed was better suited for me.

So again. Don't beat yourself up about not getting everything. Just know what's possible. It'll help you evaluate potential candidates better.

Cheers.
 
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No, dry ice is still not necessary to pull off the fog effect. Anybody with a little more than basic understanding of after effects can make that fog effect for you on his computer. Ask someone how they would do the fog effect. I would use the Fractal Noise generator in after effects to make the fog. Ask them how they would do it.
 
All right, let's get to it. I'm going to shoot some short films just to gain experience. For these two scenes, can I get away with $500 each? If so, what would that entail?

My concern about the white background is I would have to buy white sheet, and then I wouldn't know what to do with it.
 
Dry ice lays low. A fog machine creates a heavy fog that disperses
in a wide. A hazer creates a haze. There are wonderful tools available
for all effects.

trueindie is correct; for the white background a sheet might do it but
what is usually used is seamless background paper. The industry
standard is Savage Universal but several companies make it.
Aspiring Mogul said:
My concern about the white background is I would have to buy white sheet, and then I wouldn't know what to do with it.
Click to expand...
You now have a DP. He will know exactly how to light it to get the
look you want.
 
Hang the sheet on the wall - stretch it out to eliminate any wrinkles.

Now you have to light it. The key is to get it evenly lit and just slightly overexposed to eliminate any detail/texture from the surface. You'll need at least two matching lights, one on each side at equal distances and matching angles - the easiest ones to use would be long fluorescents, like kino-flo divas. You can orient them vertically on either side and get very even lighting fairly quickly. If you can't rent or borrow kino's you can go the DIY route with flourescent shop lights as outlined here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWtTLuGQxwk

The basic setup between greenscreen/white background is similar - although you may find you need more output to get best results with white - you can double up or use 2-bulb fixtures for the DIY setup.

Now set up your camera and determine the appropriate exposure settings for the background to go just over 100% white. Adjust the positioning of the lights to eliminate any shadows or unevenness.

Then you place your actors so that they are forward of the background lights and not receiving much light from them. You'll now add lighting in front of the actors so that they are lit properly relative to the background.

You can back the camera up and use a longer lens to tighten the shot and keep the background lights or edges of the sheet out of the shot. If you don't have room or the appropriate lens you may need to jsut shoot with things visible in the shot and then mask them out in post.
 
Thanks, everyone.

My aspiring DP said we could rent a photography studio, which would be cheaper. He also said that, to rent a sound stage could be a few hundred dollars for half a day, which would be unreasonable considering what we want to do.

In terms of cost, we have to budget conservatively. Let's say we pay the actors and everyone $10 an hour - I know what everyone is saying about getting free labor in exchange for credits, but let's say we don't do that and we pay money. I think $500 max for each scene would be reasonable?
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
I think $500 max for each scene would be reasonable?
Click to expand...
You can start with the $500 and work back or you can start with the
people needed, the equipment needed, the location needed and the
time needed and work forward.

Let's start by working back:

2 actors
1 director
1 DP
1 boomOp (if you record directly into the camera)
2 general crew

That's $70/hr.
No equipment rental – you'll expect the DP to bring the camera, mic
and lights.
Photo studio rental: $25/hr
Craft service for seven: $80

Looks like you can't afford a typical half day shoot which is six hours
so you're limited to four hours.

If you need make up and an MU artist, that's more. If you need any set
dressing, that's more. If you need any equipment the DP does not already
own, that's more. And you have $40 to play with.
 
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directorik said:
You can start with the $500 and work back or you can start with the
people needed, the equipment needed, the location needed and the
time needed and work forward.

Let's start by working back:

2 actors
1 director
1 DP
1 boomOp (if you record directly into the camera)
2 general crew
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. A few questions, if you don't mind, sensei.

1) So why would I need 2 general crew???
2) I thought the director would be a DP
3) I thought the boomop would be redundant in a 30-second scene.

Again, I ask because I don't know.


That's $70/hr.
Click to expand...

OK. And maybe another $10 for the day to get a secretary to do the necessary paperwork. Then, if we go upscale, a bookkeeper and an accountant will be needed.


No equipment rental – you'll expect the DP to bring the camera, mic
and lights.
Photo studio rental: $25/hr
Craft service for seven: $80

Looks like you can't afford a typical half day shoot which is six hours
so you're limited to four hours.
Click to expand...

I can push it past $500, it's not a big deal. But why would I need 6 hours for a 30-second shoot????
And what's a craft service anyway?


If you need make up and an MU artist, that's more. If you need any set
dressing, that's more. If you need any equipment the DP does not already
own, that's more. And you have $40 to play with.
Click to expand...

I don't think I need those ... do I? These are just simple scenes.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
Thanks for the help. A few questions, if you don't mind, sensei.

1) So why would I need 2 general crew???
2) I thought the director would be a DP
3) I thought the boomop would be redundant in a 30-second scene.
Click to expand...
1) You don't. If you want the director/DP to set up and move all the
lights, handle the backdrop, set up and move the camera equipment
and work the fog or hazer, you can have that one person do that. It
saves time to have crew do all that work.
2)If you what the DP to also direct then you can do that. In general those
are two, different skills.
3)You need someone to hold the mic close to the actors. If you don't get
the mic close the audio will be unintelligible.

Aspiring Mogul said:
OK. And maybe another $10 for the day to get a secretary to do the necessary paperwork. Then, if we go upscale, a bookkeeper and an accountant will be needed.
Click to expand...
There will be little paper work for this 30 second scene. But if you
feel you need to pay someone to do it, that's fine. If you feel it's better
to spend the money on a secretary rather then on crew that's up to you.
Aspiring Mogul said:
I can push it past $500, it's not a big deal. But why would I need 6 hours for a 30-second shoot????
Click to expand...
You don't. You can shoot this in less if that's what you want. You mentioned
a half day of shooting. In general a half day is considered six hours.

You need to figure 30 minutes on each end of your day to unload and
set up and then strike and load up. So with four hours you get three
hours of shooting. For a very short, very easy scene that may be enough.
But it will be tight and coverage will be limiting. If you are looking to
recreate that ST:TNG scene it should be easy; a master, two CU's, two
OTS and two dolly shots. And that takes time.

But you don't have to do things this way. You can walk in with three people;
the director/DP and the two actors, turn on some lights in the studio, point
the camera at them and have them say the lines. Then leave. One hour.
Aspiring Mogul said:
And what's a craft service anyway?
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craft_service
If you're shooting for one hour with a total of three people you don't need
to provide anything. If you are shooting for half a day (or even four hours)
is generally understood by cast and crew that there will be beverages and
some snacks provided by the producer. You can save money by not providing
that.

Here's one option: for a recreation of that ST:TNG scene I could provide the
cast and crew for nothing but a nice meal. You pay for the studio and a little
something for equipment rental. We shoot it like we're making a real movie
so you can get the feel of what it takes to put together a 30 second scene.
 
1. I also used seamless paper. I called it "white sheet." sorry :)

2. Aspiring Mogul: Listen to direktorik. You want crew. It doesn't matter if it's a 30 second short or a 1 minute short, you still need your basic setup. Add a couple of crew members and your director and dp will have time to play around a bit with the help of the crew members to get you that shot you want.

3. I'm shooting my current movie with a daily number of 9 crew members including myself, and I barely make it out alive at the end of the evening. I could use more help for sure.

Good luck to you.
 
directorik said:
You need to figure 30 minutes on each end of your day to unload and
set up and then strike and load up. So with four hours you get three
hours of shooting. For a very short, very easy scene that may be enough.
But it will be tight and coverage will be limiting. If you are looking to
recreate that ST:TNG scene it should be easy; a master, two CU's, two
OTS and two dolly shots. And that takes time.
Click to expand...

Why would a 30-second scene take three hours of shooting??? I can understand the time to set up, but the time to shoot 30 seconds of dialogue???

If you are looking to recreate that ST:TNG scene it should be easy; a master, two CU's, two
OTS and two dolly shots. And that takes time.
Click to expand...



You can walk in with three people;
the director/DP and the two actors, turn on some lights in the studio, point
the camera at them and have them say the lines. Then leave. One hour.
Click to expand...

That makes more sense, doesn't it? Again, I ask because I don't know.


Here's one option: for a recreation of that ST:TNG scene I could provide the
cast and crew for nothing but a nice meal. You pay for the studio and a little
something for equipment rental. We shoot it like we're making a real movie
so you can get the feel of what it takes to put together a 30 second scene.
Click to expand...

How long would that take? I presume it would be in LA?
 
trueindie said:
1. I also used seamless paper. I called it "white sheet." sorry :)

2. Aspiring Mogul: Listen to direktorik. You want crew. It doesn't matter if it's a 30 second short or a 1 minute short, you still need your basic setup. Add a couple of crew members and your director and dp will have time to play around a bit with the help of the crew members to get you that shot you want.

3. I'm shooting my current movie with a daily number of 9 crew members including myself, and I barely make it out alive at the end of the evening. I could use more help for sure.

Good luck to you.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Now I understand why I need crew. But I don't understand why, for a low-budget web series, you need three hours of filming for a 30-second shoot. And my aspiring DP would be upset if I didn't use him.

Thanks for your help, Trueindie.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
Fair enough. Now I understand why I need crew. But I don't understand why, for a low-budget web series, you need three hours of filming for a 30-second shoot. And my aspiring DP would be upset if I didn't use him.

Thanks for your help, Trueindie.
Click to expand...

Rik mentioned 3 setups

1. closeups
2. Over the shoulders
3. dolly

Each of them will require time to set up and to light
Batteries may fail in the middle of a shot and you have to redo
The acting may not be to your liking and you'll have to do more takes than you thought
Some other things are surely going to go wrong


The truth is that you can still get through all three setups in an hour. But that means that you'll probably have to spend hours before you reach the studio, planning exactly what you want, and how you will achieve it with the gear and actors and wardrobes at your disposal, with your dp and director.

If you do the pre-work, there's no reason you can't pull off a proper "final" 30 second video in a couple of hours. But "pre-work" means more than the couple spent at the studio. One way or the other, you're going to spend more than 4 hours on a proper 30 second short.

Here's what I would do. Just shoot one of the shorts. See if you can control the time. It is one hell of a challenge. The DP will want his perfect dolly shot. He'll want to do a different lighting setup for every single shot, and then something will reflect the light setup in a way you don't want, and then you'll be changing the light setup again. If you're shooting outside (which I understand you're not), anything from a plane to a recess at a local school (children's noise), to a car driving by, to someone slamming the door in the next house in the middle of your perfect take, or someone blowing their goddamn autumn leaves in the bloody evening,... absolutely ANYTHING, can screw up your 30 second short. But if you plan for every eventuality and just keep moving forward when you actually can, you'll survive the day.

:)

What you need to do is plan for every eventuality, and every possible breakdown of system, even in a 30 second short. If you have a couple of experts in your team, they'll anticipate breakdowns and mistakes, and save your day.

But I admit, that for your scenario, an inside the studio shoot of a 30 second dialog scene, with a little bit of planning, 4 hours is more than enough time.
 
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Aspiring Mogul said:
Why would a 30-second scene take three hours of shooting??? I can understand the time to set up, but the time to shoot 30 seconds of dialogue???
Click to expand...
Because to recreate that scene you posted there are at least seven set ups.
It's called "coverage". You shoot the entire scene seven times from seven
angles. Each time the camera is moved the lights need to be adjusted. There
will be more than one take. These things take time.

You understand that when I wrote this I was referring to the ST clip you posted.
I did not know what you wanted to shoot is 30 seconds of dialogue. That scene
would take two to three hours to shoot. 30 seconds of dialogue will not.

Okay. You only want a 30 second movie. You need to use this aspiring DP
you have promised to use. How about this:

Use his livingroom. Put up a white sheet. Set up three lights. Put two actors
in front of the sheet. Point the camera at them, press record say “action”
and shoot them taking for 30 seconds. You're done.

Total time 20 minutes. Pay the three people for a full hour - $30. Thank
them and you now have your completed 30 second short film.

How long does your aspiring DP say it will take?
 
The pilot is done, several scenes are done, this critical episode is done, the series bible has been drafted. I'm almost ready to go, but I need experience.

This scene is part of an episode that is extremely critical to the series - everything may turn on it. My purpose is to film several scenes so I know what it takes. Of course, I will have to film and re-film, which would be my learning process.

The other scene in this thread, the eating one, is part of the scene that comes after the pilot, and, yes, it will have a story line similar to Conrad's Hearts of Darkness ... except it will focus on the characters. How's that for a teaser? :D
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
The pilot is done, several scenes are done, this critical episode is done, the series bible has been drafted. I'm almost ready to go, but I need experience.
Click to expand...
Which is why I suggest you work with a few people who have some
experience and do it the right way. Yes, you could shoot a 30 second
scene with one person and two actors in 20 minutes. Or you could do
it the standard way with plenty of coverage. That way you can see
how making a movie works.

How long does your aspiring DP say it will take to shoot this scene?
 
directorik said:
Which is why I suggest you work with a few people who have some
experience and do it the right way. Yes, you could shoot a 30 second
scene with one person and two actors in 20 minutes. Or you could do
it the standard way with plenty of coverage. That way you can see
how making a movie works.

How long does your aspiring DP say it will take to shoot this scene?
Click to expand...

He didn't say how long it would take to do the scene, because he hasn't seen the script. And he'll be occupied until late next year, when I would then also be free.

So what's the difference between my 30-second shoot and the proper way?
 
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