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Equipment required for boompole setup?

N

Nicwillu

Hi!

So, I have been doing some small sketches, movies and commercials with friends and media class, and I am getting really mad at the sound being so bad. I have the RØDE VideoMic, and I have to go really close up to catch good voice sound, when I want to go back, zoom in and get the DOF. And doing ADR would take forever so that's not an option!

So I have been thinking of getting a boompole setup, and in the bottom line, my question is: what kind of equipment do I need?
I guess all I need to buy is the boompole and an extension cable. I already have a camera (Canon 60D) and the mic (RØDE VideoMic) so that should be it, right?

Thanks, Nicolai
 
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You're on the right track. You've realized that the only way to get quality dialog is to get the mic closer to talent. Sound behaves just like light in that it responds to the inverse square law, which to put simply:

By moved the mic closer to the talent the ratio of talent to unwanted sound (call it signal to noise ratio) improves EXPONENTIALLY. Meaning if you half the distance between the mic and the talent, the talent volume is now not doubled but increased by factor of 4.

Getting your mic on a boom is a great first step. Next would be to improve this ratio even more by chosing a more directional microphone which further rejects unwanted off-axis sounds.

I would recommend investing in a quality boom pole and quality shock mount. It's an investment that you'll only need to make once and will serve you long after you've changed camera bodies once or twice. While you can make your own, a home made solution will be heavier, and much more prone to handling noise than a commercial variant.

A field recorder is the next step, providing quieter preamps and better monitoring capabilities, and monitoring during the shot is an absolute must when using a boom pole.

Nicwillu said:
Hi!

So, I have been doing some small sketches, movies and commercials with friends and media class, and I am getting really mad at the sound being so bad. I have the RØDE VideoMic, and I have to go really close up to catch good voice sound, when I want to go back, zoom in and get the DOF. And doing ADR would take forever so that's not an option!

So I have been thinking of getting a boompole setup, and in the bottom line, my question is: what kind of equipment do I need?
I guess all I need to buy is the boompole and an extension cable. I already have a camera (Canon 60D) and the mic (RØDE VideoMic) so that should be it, right?

Thanks, Nicolai
Click to expand...
 
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GP has got it right.

Quality accessories are always a solid investment. Back when I was a touring musician I spent very large amounts of money on a heavy duty (but light weight) fast assembly/disassembly keyboard stand. Many different keyboards went on that stand over the years. It saved a lot of time. It really lasted; in fact, I still have it 25+ years later. I got very heavy duty racks; many different pieces of gear migrated in and out of them over the years. They really lasted and I still have them as well. Over the course of 25 years the initial investments repaid me many times over.

A really good quality boom-pole, shock-mount and wind protection will work equally well with a $250 Audio Technica AT897 or a $2,000 Schoeps CMIT. The same applies to tripods. C-stands are always useful; you can never have enough. In fact, it almost makes more sense to buy quality accessories and to rent just the camera, mics and audio recorder for each production; that way you are always renting the cutting edge technology (which is also depreciate the fastest and the most) while owning the tried and true. (Remember when the DVX-100 was the freakin' bomb? I bet half of the youngsters here haven't even heard of the DVX-100.)

Just keep in mind that proper booming technique is 90% of the battle; just sticking a mic on the end of a stick (or a proper boom-pole) doesn't mean squat without the correct technique.

Your projects only look as good as they sound.
 
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GrimDelta said:
Im also very new to the idea of setting up for sound :D

My advice is to save your money on buying a boompole and instead, make a homemade one, and a shockmount check the links at the bottom, that will save you may 150E and instead, buy a Zoom H4n Digital Audio Recorder, as the sound on DSLRs are not great,

Anybody feel free to correct me :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83d3qLHaAN4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVUuk9fgPGA
Click to expand...

I tried making a boom pole out of a telescopic painters pole like in the video, and I think it's a bad idea respectfully, cause of this: When you swing the boom from one actors mouth, to another, the pole rattles on the inside. The mic will record the rattle.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I tried making a boom pole out of a telescopic painters pole like in the video, and I think it's a bad idea respectfully, cause of this: When you swing the boom from one actors mouth, to another, the pole rattles on the inside. The mic will record the rattle.
Click to expand...

You extend it all the way or not at all; that mitigates the problem.
 
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Thank you for all the feedback. I have the money to buy the neccessary equipment, so I am just gonna go with a "real" boompole.

Just to be sure, the standard "Røde Boompole" is compatible with the Røde VideoMic right? I am considering to get the H4N after some time, I have heard it has amazing capabilities and really good sound.
 
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The VideoMic has an 1/8" output right? It also has a little shockmount built in. If you can take the mic out of the mount, then yes it'll work.

You'll need an 1/8" cable extension too.

And a separate recorder.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
The VideoMic has an 1/8" output right? It also has a little shockmount built in. If you can take the mic out of the mount, then yes it'll work.

You'll need an 1/8" cable extension too.

And a separate recorder.
Click to expand...

Hm do I need to unmount the schockmount? In the boompole description it says "Regular screws (screw hole thingy) for mounting the microphone holder/shockmount"

About the separate recorder, it is because of the bad gain control with the DSRL, right?

EDIT: According to Røde's homepage the boompole is compatible with the VideoMic.

EDIT2: One more question. Will a 3 metres long extension cable (+ microphone cable length) be enough? I am gonna get the VC1 extension cable (If I am gonna get an external recorder this doesn't matter)
 
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1: Yes, like Alcove said DSLR audio is horrendous, it might be half your problem with bad audio.

2: 3m might be enough, that's up to you though? Do you have a boompole longer than 3m? If you're using a separate recorder, generally for a 1 man audio crew his cable will goin to a recorder he's holding or wearing around his neck, so as long as you don't boom past 2.5m then you're good. If you're running to the camera, then you need enough to go down the pole to the floor and over to the camera and back up.

If you really want to improve the Audio and have budget, sell your Rode videomic and grab one of the shotguns alcove mentioned. Should only be like $80 after you sell the other, and it will sound way better and use a pproper XLR cable instead of the mini pin.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
1: Yes, like Alcove said DSLR audio is horrendous, it might be half your problem with bad audio.

2: 3m might be enough, that's up to you though? Do you have a boompole longer than 3m? If you're using a separate recorder, generally for a 1 man audio crew his cable will goin to a recorder he's holding or wearing around his neck, so as long as you don't boom past 2.5m then you're good. If you're running to the camera, then you need enough to go down the pole to the floor and over to the camera and back up.

If you really want to improve the Audio and have budget, sell your Rode videomic and grab one of the shotguns alcove mentioned. Should only be like $80 after you sell the other, and it will sound way better and use a pproper XLR cable instead of the mini pin.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering.

The boompole can be extended to 3m. So if I am gonna have it fully extended, I will need a longer cable. I guess Buying two of the VC1 Extensions cable will do it, but having two connected, won't it be any noise due to isolation or something?

But good idea about selling my VideoMic and buy let's say the Audio Technia mic. The H4N has a XLR input right? So I can just plug the Technina mic directly into the H4N without any adapters or something, and sync it later in post.

I feel having a recorder in a pocket or something connected to the mic on the boompole on the sound-guy, is better than having a long cable into the camera, so I will most likely go for the recorder method.
 
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Sweet man, that's the way to do it!

Yes, the H4n has XLR inputs. I use it and it's a great intro to audio solution. Check out the Tascam DR-100 though. I actually would have gotten that, but literally right as I was about to buy it online a friend was like "hey I have something like that that I don't use anymore, you can have it" and sure enough it was the H4n haha.

So yeah, Shotgun mic, boompole, shockmout, XLR cable, Recorder, Headphones and you'll be rolling man. Sweet!
 
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PaulGriffith said:
Sweet man, that's the way to do it!

Yes, the H4n has XLR inputs. I use it and it's a great intro to audio solution. Check out the Tascam DR-100 though. I actually would have gotten that, but literally right as I was about to buy it online a friend was like "hey I have something like that that I don't use anymore, you can have it" and sure enough it was the H4n haha.

So yeah, Shotgun mic, boompole, shockmout, XLR cable, Recorder, Headphones and you'll be rolling man. Sweet!
Click to expand...

Ok thanks!

About the Tascam DR-100, its like 700 USD (at least here in Norway), so I think I am gonna stick with the H4N (as I am also more familiar with it, seen videos on youtube and read a little about it)

And the H4n, I guess it has a jack input as well? I want to try with what I have first, connect my Røde Videomic into the H4n. If it is not, I can buy XLR->2,5mm jack adapter
And uh... the headphone input, it's a regular 2,5mm jack right?
 
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As I have mentioned dozens of times I prefer the DR-100 because it has physical volume knobs - no searching through menus to adjust the input volume - and the build is sturdier, so it doesn't turn into an expensive paperweight if dropped.

XLR inputs implies low impedance which translates into less chance or RF and other forms of interference. You also have more secure connections and better pre-amps, although the DR-100 and H4n are low on the totem pole.

Check out my blog, some useful stuff to help you along,
 
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Nicwillu said:
Ok thanks!

About the Tascam DR-100, its like 700 USD (at least here in Norway), so I think I am gonna stick with the H4N (as I am also more familiar with it, seen videos on youtube and read a little about it)

And the H4n, I guess it has a jack input as well? I want to try with what I have first, connect my Røde Videomic into the H4n. If it is not, I can buy XLR->2,5mm jack adapter
And uh... the headphone input, it's a regular 2,5mm jack right?
Click to expand...

The H4n has a hybrid XLR/1/4" connectors for input so either would fit, you just need to convert the mini 1/8" to 1/4" or XLR (or your metric labeled equivalent).
 
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I'll also say sell the rode if you can and upgrade. I had a mic with an 1/8" plug on it... which was fine until you added an extension cable... then it became a giant antenna to pick up any interference in the area... it ended up only being useful outside where there was no RF being thrown nearby. Horrible full-spectrum buzzing. Switching to an XLR system end to end solved that issue for us and we're really happy we spent the money for it.
 
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Ok thanks everyone :D

The plan:

- Buy a boompole.
- Buy H4N.
- Buy a new mic with XLR output.
- Buy a shockmount (depending on which mic I will buy)

Won't I need a XLR-extension cable as well? I guess the XLR cable provided with the mic may be long enough (depending on which mic) Also, Does the h4n come with a XLR-cable?

Is something else missing? If I just buy those, I should be fine?

What about SD-cards on the h4n, is it any mininum class type? I have two class 10 cards and a couple of class 6 and 4 cards.

I am also considering getting a viewfinder, specifically the LCDVF 3:2

EDIT: Do you guys recommend any other XLR mics?
 
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As with everything else, good quality XLR cables will last. ProCo has always been my preference, but Canare, Mogami and Whirlwind are all good choices. Monster, although excellent, is way overpriced IMHO. If the boom-op is also going to be operating the recorder your cable length should be the full extended length of the boom-pole plus ten feet. I would also recommend one spare.

Most shotgun mics come with a shock-mount, and some vendors have nice package deals on shotgun - shock-mount - boom-pole - wind protection kits.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461493-REG/Rode_NTG_1_Shotgun_Condenser.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/573977-REG/Rode_NTG_3_Basic_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563847-REG/Rode_NTG_3_Ultimate_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/422108-REG/Sennheiser_Ultimate_Shotgun_Microphone_Kit.html


H4n Operation Confirmed SD/SDHC Cards

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4n/SDlist.html
 
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Alcove Audio said:
As with everything else, good quality XLR cables will last. ProCo has always been my preference, but Canare, Mogami and Whirlwind are all good choices. Monster, although excellent, is way overpriced IMHO. If the boom-op is also going to be operating the recorder your cable length should be the full extended length of the boom-pole plus ten feet. I would also recommend one spare.

Most shotgun mics come with a shock-mount, and some vendors have nice package deals on shotgun - shock-mount - boom-pole - wind protection kits.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461493-REG/Rode_NTG_1_Shotgun_Condenser.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/573977-REG/Rode_NTG_3_Basic_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563847-REG/Rode_NTG_3_Ultimate_Shotgun_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/422108-REG/Sennheiser_Ultimate_Shotgun_Microphone_Kit.html


H4n Operation Confirmed SD/SDHC Cards

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4n/SDlist.html
Click to expand...

Thanks, great links! I will probably buy the first one if I have the money after christmas, and + h4n it becomes well over 900 usd. If I don't have enough, I will be fine with what I listed above?

I have looked into some XLR-cables, I notice some are male -> female and opposite, what do I need? Also do you recommend some XLR-mics besides the AT-897? Can't find anything...
 
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