Any tips on writing a script with only a few pages of dialogue? In the vein of "Only God Forgives" or " The Samurai".
Thanks in advance,
M
Thanks in advance,
M
I often start by writing my stories as treatments (scenes as paragraphs without dialogue). I then will move my treatment into script form. At that point, the story should be visual so that it's evident what is happening without a word of dialogue. Then I can go back and add in dialogue as needed. Obviously that's not how I write every script. Sometimes a phrase or dialogue will come to me and inspire a story. As AudioAlcove mentions, silent films are never "silent". However, in terms of limited dialogue, the visual imagery needs to carry the story. David Mamet stresses that with all of his writers. And one test I use with how well a scene works, is to remove all the dialogue and see if the description/action statements convey the relevant story of the scene.Any tips on writing a script with only a few pages of dialogue? In the vein of "Only God Forgives" or " The Samurai".
Thanks in advance,
M
As AudioAlcove mentions, silent films are never "silent". However, in terms of limited dialogue, the visual imagery needs to carry the story. David Mamet stresses that with all of his writers.
I appreciate your perspective. However, you're confusing the final film with writing a script. A script has a description statement and an action line. We have limited options for sound effects such as a line that says "Knock at the door" or "Alarm rings", etc. Music and sound effects require post-production artistry that is based on the actual footage for its timing and execution. None of which the screenwriter has any control over. We're not even supposed to suggest specific music except for generalities, "Jazz music plays on the radio."That's a very strange thing to state! Often, when there's limited/no dialogue, the visual imagery does carry the story, sometimes the visual imagery only provides one aspect of the story, while music and/or sound carries another and other times the visual imagery may provide nothing more than a generic location and not carry any of the actual story at all. ...G
However, the script is a framework that will be shaped by the director who will pass the visual elements off to a composer and foley artist. Have you ever been asked to write a score based solely on the script before the film has even been shot? For the screenwriter it's the other way round. The screenwriter is pre-production, music/sound FX are post production.
I've been studying how ever since the original Star Wars, the game was completely changed when George Lucas hired a sound designer long before getting the film into production.
For example, up until about 1989, every Taiwanese film was post-synchronized and I found it interesting that it took an arthouse filmmaker (Hou Hsiao-hsien) to compel a change in the way their industry handled sound since usually it is the mainstream filmmaker that inspires technological advances (as with the George Lucas example).
APE probably knows about this, but are there different kinds of sound designers that work with different kinds of filmmakers at different budgets? Or is sound also mostly handled in post production in these lower budget films?
I suppose that arthouse filmmakers care about sound equally but are unable to afford a sound designer that works on the level of a Hollywood production, but I may be wrong about this.
... are there different kinds of sound designers that work with different kinds of filmmakers at different budgets?
Thank you for sharing your insights. As you mentioned above, you still come into play AFTER the script is written to add your artistic stylings. You haven't added to the script but contributed to the director's realization. Again, a screenwriter isn't asked to make musical sketches. That's not a failing but a division of talent. Much as in an orchestra you have the conductor leading the strings, woodwinds, percussion, etc to create the symphony; the screenwriters are the violins, the DP is the woodwinds, the audio experts are the percussion, etc led by the director to create a film. Our roles are complementary though largely exclusive in contribution to the final product. There's no reason to keep beating your drum. Music is important to the film as a whole.... say in the case of some action occurring in the shadows, requires that the scene has been planned and shot with shadows in the first place! ... but I would expect or at least hope that they consider that the world their characters inhabit is not just a visual world but also an aural one and provide opportunities for the sound designer to tell the story rather than just for the actors and/or cinematographer.
BTW, yes, I have been asked on quite a few occasions to provide musical sketches and/or rough soundscapes from the just the script during pre-production. I have also reasonably commonly been asked to review scripts and attend pre-production meetings to advise and provide the director with options when designing the shot list .... Although as I said, it is a common failing of many/most screenwriters.
G
Yes, Star Wars is often quoted as a watershed film but sound design is not like say CGI for example, which effectively didn't really exist in the film industry until Star Wars. Filmmakers like Hitchcock, Welles, Kubrik and others designed their films very much with sound and/or music as a main storytelling tool, rather than just a support to the visuals/dialogue. They just did it themselves as part of their filmmaking style/ethos rather than collaborate with a Sound Designer during pre-prod.
Actually I would say Lucas is a relatively poor example because although he became a bastion of Hollywood, at the time of the first Star Wars film Lucas was not yet a mainstream "Hollywood" director and Star Wars was technically an indie film, not a Hollywood film!
The term "Sound Designer" is quite regularly abused in my opinion. At the lo/no budget level it is often the title given to the person who does all the audio post but this role is purely editing, sourcing and mixing sound rather than helping to design the film for sound. It's extremely rare in my experience that low budget indie filmmakers give sound any serious consideration at all until the post phase, with the exception of trying to capture clean production dialogue. This is due to most indie filmmakers coming from a TV background, where it makes sense for sound to be a purely audio post process in the vast majority of programming, or from a film school background, where even audio post is taught poorly and actual sound design often barely even mentioned, or, from an amateur filmmaking background where very few even recognise the existence of sound design and fewer still have any interest in it.
I don't think that's it. Arthouse and no/lo budget indie filmmakers in general, don't usually have the budget for anyone or any department which works on the level of a Hollywood production. They can't afford a Hollywood level Producer, actors, camera department, etc., that doesn't stop them from trying to make films though! They just have to mainly use amateurs, aspiring pros or learn how to do it themselves. For some reason, they rarely seem to apply this approach to sound design though, I think it's more a case that the majority are just blissfully unaware of how powerful a tool sound design can be and even those with a superficial appreciation tend to view it largely as an optional extra/luxury item which they can't afford, rather than an essential which they've somehow got to cover.
To be honest, I'm more than a little surprised by the situation. With so many more amateur filmmakers today and a veritable ocean of lo/no budget indies being produced, it's surprising to me that more don't take the risk and try to distinguish themselves from the masses who either ignore sound design completely or just include the odd moment. I don't deny though that it's extremely difficult or even near impossible. For example, where would one find an amateur or aspiring sound designer who would work for free/peanuts and who has any knowledge/experience of designing a film for sound or the actual envisioning/design process of the sound itself? It's not taught in audio or film schools, there's virtually no demand for it until the higher budget levels, there's no decent books about it and with few exceptions no internet articles from those who really know about it, so where is one supposed to learn this stuff outside of the higher budget industry itself? I don't pretend to have the answer but there again, I don't know how many of the more talented amateur filmmakers achieve what they do in other filmmaking areas/crafts with their seemingly insurmountable lack of budget.
Very much so but that's largely because of how broadly the term "Sound Designer" is applied. At one end of the spectrum are Sound Designers like Randy Thom and Richard King who have multi-million dollar sound budgets and at the other are those who charge a few hundred dollars a day. But at this lower end of the scale, budget limitations mean that these sound designers are usually only employed for 4-12 weeks, are purely post-production employees, are therefore forced to be reactive rather than collaborative and usually have to concentrate all or nearly all of their efforts on the technical basics of audio post rather than on design issues. I'm sure there maybe some exceptions to this general rule but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
As you mentioned above, you still come into play AFTER the script is written to add your artistic stylings. You haven't added to the script but contributed to the director's realization.
I take exception that you call it a failing ... So far all you've done is say "Screenwriters are stupid" which isn't constructive.
We're composing the film's "melody" while you're adding the "countermelody".
PS - MiniJamesW. I do want to respond to your post but it is rather off-topic and I'm short of time. Maybe in a few days I'll be able to get round to replying.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the sound designer as being the kind of essential person in crafting the aural elements of a film in the same way as the director of photography and production designer handle the visual elements of the film (under the guidance of the director). Most directors (at least most less-experienced directors) choose to collaborate with the director of photography or production designer more than the sound designer. The ideal director takes all elements of the production into consideration.
The greatest work in sound design is essentially only available to the largest budget Hollywood productions, it isn't available to arthouse filmmakers, filmmakers in other nations, or lower budget filmmakers within the US. But I think in many ways, they don't need to have Gravity standard sound design, but they should take sound into greater consideration and do the best they possibly can.
I get the feeling that even with a lower budget, being more conscious of the way sound is being used would still revolutionize the way lower budget films sound even if only on a small-scale. Do you think if a filmmaker would actually try to collaborate more with these lower budget sound designers that better results would be produced?
I'd like to read it.Just finished if anyone wants to read.