HI Guys, So i have a question about using the ZOom H4n for capturing great dialog. I am using a Rhode NTG2 shotgun mic as well. I am a bit confused using this product ( hence why I am in the Noob Section) Would it be possible for anyone to give me a simple step by step process on how to capture great audio for dialog?
Zoom H4N question
- Thread starter mrpink89
- Start date
There is no real "simple step by step" way of writing this down. You should understand field-recording is a trade. It takes time to learn and even longer to master.
I'll give you a few steps in the right direction, but you should test and work with it as much as possible so you'll feel comfortable using the Zoom.
1. The Zoom has two modes, regular and stamina. You can change these modes by opening the battery case on the back of the Zoom, inside you'll find a switch. What does this mean?
*Stamina mode will make your battery life run much longer than regular mode. However, it will only give you the most basic menu options. I usually work without stamina mode, though it will burn through your batteries very fast.
2. Connect you external mic to one of the bottom connections of the Zoom. This can be either via XLR cable or a large PL cable. Make sure your cables are good. Cables in bad condition tend to cause the biggest problems to new comers.
3. Make sure you have an SD card in the SD slot. I tend to format it before I being shooting. After formatting, it will create a few empty folders.
4. Run through the menu options. You can decide here if you want to have the external mic record just to one channel or to both. Make sure you know what you choose and leave a note to the editor/sound editor as well. If you connect two external mics, you will want to record each mic on a separate channel.
5. You can select to record MONO, STEREO and 4CH. Mono will not let you split channel recording, as stated above. Stereo will give you the option to split channels. 4CH will record both from you external mics and the Zoom's internal mics. Which ever you choose, the audio you record will be saved on the folder it belongs to (You'll see Mono, Stereo and 4CH after formatting). I suggest working with Stereo until you understand what you are doing.
*A not about the Zoom's internal mics: These mics are mostly good for getting some ambiance audio, though I never use them because they don't really work well on a professional level. You might find a better use for them when recording a lecture and putting the zoom on the lecturer's table.
6. After selecting channels, select frequency. This is something your editor or sound editor would have to tell you. If you don't know, work on 48KHZ/24BIT. It seems to be the most commonly used. Again, make a note to your editor and sound editor that this is the frequency you recorded on.
7. You are almost ready to roll. Connect your headphones to the HP jack. Leave the menu. Press the buttons saying 1 and 2, they will light in red. Now press the record button. You will notice it's flashing. This means it is in PREVIEW MODE. IT IS NOT RECORDING!!! Make sure you know this, because a lot of newcomers tend to forget and then are left with no recordings.
8. In PREVIEW MODE, you need to set your levels before the camera rolls. I won't go into how you're suppose to fix the levels, because it's a lot to go into. What you need to remember is that you don't want the levels to go into distortion, because this can't be fixed in post - maybe made better, but not perfect.
9. On both sides of the Zoom are two "Volume" buttons. One side is really for Volume, the other is for input audio. Set the volume to whatever, this will not affect to recording, it will just allow you to hear more or less from your headphones. Now hold your mic about a meter away from your subject's mouth and let him talk as he would in the actual take. Look at the levels on your Zoom screen go up and down. Now play with the input audio +/- until it seems to be in a good place. I suggest getting it to a steady place around -12 when he is talking and have the levels not move at all when it is silent. This might not work by just playing with the input audio, you might need to close windows, shut down AC's and fridges and whatnot. Also make sure the audio doesn't echo.
10. Make sure that whatever happens, the audio levels don't go into distortion. This happens when the levels on your zoom screen reach 0 and above (unless you are connected to an external console, but let's not go into that). You will notice the red lights on the 1 and 2 buttons flash if this happens. You don't want that.
11. Ok, you are ready. Now press the RECORD button again, you will see it will stop flashing and will stay steady. On your screen you will see the timeline numbers begin to run. This means you are recording sound to your SD card. Hit record again to end the recording.
Two things that you might run into:
1. Make sure you select the 1 and 2 buttons and that they are lit in red. If the "mic" button is lit in red, you will only record sound from the internal mics and get shit sound. MAKE SURE YOU ARE HEARING AUDIO FROM YOUR EXTERNAL MIC ONLY!
2. Some external mics have something called phantom. Without going into this, make sure you have a battery inside your mic as well and don't forget to turn it on.
Good luck.
I'll give you a few steps in the right direction, but you should test and work with it as much as possible so you'll feel comfortable using the Zoom.
1. The Zoom has two modes, regular and stamina. You can change these modes by opening the battery case on the back of the Zoom, inside you'll find a switch. What does this mean?
*Stamina mode will make your battery life run much longer than regular mode. However, it will only give you the most basic menu options. I usually work without stamina mode, though it will burn through your batteries very fast.
2. Connect you external mic to one of the bottom connections of the Zoom. This can be either via XLR cable or a large PL cable. Make sure your cables are good. Cables in bad condition tend to cause the biggest problems to new comers.
3. Make sure you have an SD card in the SD slot. I tend to format it before I being shooting. After formatting, it will create a few empty folders.
4. Run through the menu options. You can decide here if you want to have the external mic record just to one channel or to both. Make sure you know what you choose and leave a note to the editor/sound editor as well. If you connect two external mics, you will want to record each mic on a separate channel.
5. You can select to record MONO, STEREO and 4CH. Mono will not let you split channel recording, as stated above. Stereo will give you the option to split channels. 4CH will record both from you external mics and the Zoom's internal mics. Which ever you choose, the audio you record will be saved on the folder it belongs to (You'll see Mono, Stereo and 4CH after formatting). I suggest working with Stereo until you understand what you are doing.
*A not about the Zoom's internal mics: These mics are mostly good for getting some ambiance audio, though I never use them because they don't really work well on a professional level. You might find a better use for them when recording a lecture and putting the zoom on the lecturer's table.
6. After selecting channels, select frequency. This is something your editor or sound editor would have to tell you. If you don't know, work on 48KHZ/24BIT. It seems to be the most commonly used. Again, make a note to your editor and sound editor that this is the frequency you recorded on.
7. You are almost ready to roll. Connect your headphones to the HP jack. Leave the menu. Press the buttons saying 1 and 2, they will light in red. Now press the record button. You will notice it's flashing. This means it is in PREVIEW MODE. IT IS NOT RECORDING!!! Make sure you know this, because a lot of newcomers tend to forget and then are left with no recordings.
8. In PREVIEW MODE, you need to set your levels before the camera rolls. I won't go into how you're suppose to fix the levels, because it's a lot to go into. What you need to remember is that you don't want the levels to go into distortion, because this can't be fixed in post - maybe made better, but not perfect.
9. On both sides of the Zoom are two "Volume" buttons. One side is really for Volume, the other is for input audio. Set the volume to whatever, this will not affect to recording, it will just allow you to hear more or less from your headphones. Now hold your mic about a meter away from your subject's mouth and let him talk as he would in the actual take. Look at the levels on your Zoom screen go up and down. Now play with the input audio +/- until it seems to be in a good place. I suggest getting it to a steady place around -12 when he is talking and have the levels not move at all when it is silent. This might not work by just playing with the input audio, you might need to close windows, shut down AC's and fridges and whatnot. Also make sure the audio doesn't echo.
10. Make sure that whatever happens, the audio levels don't go into distortion. This happens when the levels on your zoom screen reach 0 and above (unless you are connected to an external console, but let's not go into that). You will notice the red lights on the 1 and 2 buttons flash if this happens. You don't want that.
11. Ok, you are ready. Now press the RECORD button again, you will see it will stop flashing and will stay steady. On your screen you will see the timeline numbers begin to run. This means you are recording sound to your SD card. Hit record again to end the recording.
Two things that you might run into:
1. Make sure you select the 1 and 2 buttons and that they are lit in red. If the "mic" button is lit in red, you will only record sound from the internal mics and get shit sound. MAKE SURE YOU ARE HEARING AUDIO FROM YOUR EXTERNAL MIC ONLY!
2. Some external mics have something called phantom. Without going into this, make sure you have a battery inside your mic as well and don't forget to turn it on.
Good luck.
Step One - Turn on your computer.
Step Two - Send an email to Jeff Wexler.
Step Three - Let him know your shoot dates.
Step Four - Pay him and his team $1,675 per day plus the rental of the production sound gear.
That's how you get GREAT production sound.
Now, if you're on an extremely limited budget, which is obvious in your case, you need to spend lots of time getting to know your equipment, learning new skills and exercising your ears.
If the mic is mounted on the camera you've already lost the game. You need to have someone - if you're not doing it - to properly boom the microphone. This is not an easy skill to acquire. Just imagine that you have to put your camera on the end of a ten (10) foot pole and must properly aim it without a video monitor. That is essentially what a boom-op does with a microphone; keeps it properly aimed at the talent without any immediate visual references. Oh, by the way, the boom-op must move the mic from actor to actor, keeping it properly aimed at each actor, while holding it over his/her head. Oh, I almost forgot; s/he also has to avoid getting the mic in-frame, avoid making shadows, avoid props and film equipment, and, of course, do all of this SILENTLY.
That is just the boom-op. Now you need to address the production sound mixing. This is properly setting the levels on the recording equipment (the mixer and the recorder) for optimum sound - the lowest amount of self-noise from the gear and the best signal from the mic (this is what the boom-op is doing). The PSM (Production Sound Mixer) constantly adjusts the volume levels to account for whispers and screams and everything in between.
Then there is the cable wrangler (or audio assistant) who watches the boom-ops mic cable, occasionally swings a second boom, changes batteries in all of the gear (wireless systems, mixers, recorders, etc.), manages the audio log, and is generally a PA for the sound team.
On low/no/mini/micro budget projects these jobs are all rolled into one person. Not an easy task.
Getting great production sound is not as simple as "buy this, get that and then do these three things." It is a highly evolved skill set that requires lots of practice and experience to do well. Having consumer or prosumer gear makes the job harder, as you will need to compensate for the deficiencies of low-budget equipment. For example, the NTG-2 has low volume output issues, and the H4n has weak/noisy mic pre-amps; the gain-staging must be done with great care to avoid excessively hissy audio tracks.
Now, no matter what you do - even if you hire Jeff and his crew - you are not going to get the "Hollywood" sounding dialog without extensive dialog editing, processing and mixing. I'm currently working on the dialog editing of a project. I'm about 12 minutes in (about seven minutes of actual dialog) and have spent 20+ hours; that's just the edit, I haven't even begun noise reduction, EQ, etc. And I do this for a living; how much more time will you have to spend?
I didn't mean to get long winded or to dampen your enthusiasm. But great sound is not something you pluck off the shelf at Walmart. You must take great pains to capture clean, solid production sound, and then spend a lot more time working on the dialog (and the Foley, and the sound effects, and the score/music, and the mix) during audio post.
Good luck with your endeavors!
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To answer the OP's question from a more novice point of view, I wouldn't worry about getting "great" sound because it just isn't going to happen.
Take Alcove's advice and get to know the equipment as best you can. Just like when you went out and played with your camera to get to know the features and workings of it, take the recorder around with some headphones and try to record some conversations. Listen to the difference between having the mic right in front of you as compared to 3 feet above or below you. Listen to how different room setups affect the sound with echo and the like. See what you can use to eliminate those issues, e.g. blankets or rugs on the floor or walls out of frame, etc...
Just don't expect that it will sound like what you hear in the theaters. That takes the experts a LOT of time getting it to sound right. This includes adding layers of sound such as ambient room noise, and background sounds to produce a more realistic audio collage and not just dialogue. That alone goes a long way to helping achieve the desired effect. But there's so much more to it than that...
You can do things to improve the sound, but without pro equipment and expertise, you're stuck getting what you get.
That said, if you make a compelling film and get "decent" or at the very least "acceptable" audio, most will forgive you for it.
Take Alcove's advice and get to know the equipment as best you can. Just like when you went out and played with your camera to get to know the features and workings of it, take the recorder around with some headphones and try to record some conversations. Listen to the difference between having the mic right in front of you as compared to 3 feet above or below you. Listen to how different room setups affect the sound with echo and the like. See what you can use to eliminate those issues, e.g. blankets or rugs on the floor or walls out of frame, etc...
Just don't expect that it will sound like what you hear in the theaters. That takes the experts a LOT of time getting it to sound right. This includes adding layers of sound such as ambient room noise, and background sounds to produce a more realistic audio collage and not just dialogue. That alone goes a long way to helping achieve the desired effect. But there's so much more to it than that...
You can do things to improve the sound, but without pro equipment and expertise, you're stuck getting what you get.
That said, if you make a compelling film and get "decent" or at the very least "acceptable" audio, most will forgive you for it.
Ha ha! Don't give up, though! You can get good sound by following the basics. Dialogue is hardest. Keep the mic close to the actor (within 1' to 3'). Boom poles and uni-directional shotgun mics work well, but even with a crappy mic... get it close and watch levels for clipping). Use your ears (headphones) and avoid wind, electrical hum (refrigerators/flourescent lights), air-conditioners. Unplug/turn off anything that is interfering.
Foley sounds (for post-manipulation) can often be captured on set. If a guy is unlocking a door, get close to the keys and lock, even if it is after the actual take. Actors will usually be happy to repeat something for the soundguy, once the camera is out of the way. If there is no dialogue, pay attention to the sounds in the scene. If the actor is walking, get his foot steps. He opens a door, get close for the open and close. Types on a keypad, cuts a carrot, chews his food, lights a match.......get close. When I edit, I like to use as much "good" location sound as possible; much easier than recreating all of it.
I use the example of actors talking, while travelling 60mph in a convertible automobile or a speed boat. Get them to rehearse/record their scene with you, while the engine's off, before or after the actual take. Get the engine sound by itself, as well. Get room/area tone - record the surroundings for 30 seconds or more, so this background sound (traffic, carnival, airport, wind in trees, birds, bugs) can be used on its own track. This will allow you to put close-mic'd stuff on other tracks and mix without breaks in the background. One of the worst things is a scene that cuts between two actors talking to each other and the sound is different behind each of them, so it changes with each cut. (Example: one actor's closeup had the air-conditioner on, but the other actor's closeup didn't!)
To recap:
1) Mic actors' dialogue at about 1' to 3'.
2) Turn off electrical/hum interference (AC, refridgerator, TV).
3) Avoid wind (use windscreen, or block the wind path to the mic).
4) Record close, before or after a take, if the camera or even a loud engine is interfering.
5) Record all sound sources (room tone, footsteps, doors, birds), when dialogue is not spoken.
6) As LasVegasIRA suggested, use blankets to dampen reflective walls (and even for windbreaks #3).
7) LISTEN! Use your headphones to watch levels (up for whispers, down for shouting) and to fix things that interfere with recording.
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Thanks a lot for your help guys, I really appreciate it. A follow up question is, I heard it is best to record in Mono to get decent dialogue. However as stated above
"Mono will not let you split channel recording," only "Stereo will give you the option to split channels"
I wish to split the channels but it won't be in mono. Will it? However my NTG2 is a mono Mic. so if I recored in both channels will it turn out in mono?
Here is a youtube video (2min long)
http://youtu.be/_Jwh_5Nr1YQ
IS this the correct way to go about what I am trying to do?
"Mono will not let you split channel recording," only "Stereo will give you the option to split channels"
I wish to split the channels but it won't be in mono. Will it? However my NTG2 is a mono Mic. so if I recored in both channels will it turn out in mono?
Here is a youtube video (2min long)
http://youtu.be/_Jwh_5Nr1YQ
IS this the correct way to go about what I am trying to do?
Yes, it will be mono. I recently recorded some ADR using the same method in the video you linked to. The reason is, I find it distracting to monitor with one ear. I also don't have to worry about which side of the audio file to use when I drop it into an audio track
I really wish the H4n had the "dual Input 2" feature, like you see on Panasonic DVX/HVX cameras. With that, I'm able to use a single mic, but set two levels, so I am ready for unpredictable dynamics, like when an actor is speaking, then shouts.
You can get a mic/signal splitter. The ART SPLITCom is about $25.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...PLITCom_Pro_Microphone_Splitter_Combiner.html
Yeah, it's another unwieldy piece of gear to add to the sound kit, but will get the job done. That's the price you pay (literally) for using low budget gear.
Genius! I have to write that one down...
Alcove, I have the H4n as well. It will record up 24bit/96kHz, but at that rate I only get a around an hour on a 2gb card if I record in stereo. I know 16bit/48kHz is the minimum you want to record at, but is there a big difference between the two settings?
The reason I ask is that with my headphones and audio equipment, I can't hear a difference. But if it's going to make a difference in the theater, I'll obviously go with the higher setting and just get most SD cards...
For 99.99% of indie filmmakers 24bit/48kHz is just fine; even professional sound folks at the mega-budget level use 24bit/48kHz for production sound. There is no audible difference between 16bit and 24bit, but 24bit gives you more audio headroom, or (very simply, it's MUCH more complicated) a little more volume level before you start distorting. (This has nothing to do with the mic pre-amps, which is another topic.) BTW, if you have a really nice audio playback system and an isolated, calibrated listening environment you can hear the difference between 48kHz and 96kHz.
I like doing Foley and sound FX at 96kHz because when I do extensive processing/manipulation (pitch shifting, etc.) I get fewer audio artifacts.
I like doing Foley and sound FX at 96kHz because when I do extensive processing/manipulation (pitch shifting, etc.) I get fewer audio artifacts.
I was just looking at the manual for the H4n, Scoopicman, and I noticed that if you record in MTR mode, you can set any input to any track and set the level independently. You may want to try that and see if it works...
Actually you can't or rather, you shouldn't! The only reason you could ever hear a difference between 48kHz and 96kHz sample rates is if there is a design flaw/weakness in the equipment. It's not uncommon for prosumer or even low-mid budget pro converters primarily designed for music to have design weaknesses at 44.1 or 48kHz. This is also true of some audio plugins.
Sorry to the OP for going off topic, you've received good advice in this thread and as Alcove said, 24bit 48kHz is what you should be using. Even if your recorder does perform better at 96kHz, the difference is going to be unnoticeable in virtually any situation where you are going to be shooting.
G
"I really wish the H4n had the "dual Input 2" feature... With that, I'm able to use a single mic, but set two levels, so I am ready for unpredictable dynamics, like when an actor is speaking, then shouts."
So you're saying the Zoom sucks for something like this? what could I do? set the levels different? A character in my film talks like that.
So you're saying the Zoom sucks for something like this? what could I do? set the levels different? A character in my film talks like that.
I really wish the H4n had the "dual Input 2" feature... With that, I'm able to use a single mic, but set two levels, so I am ready for unpredictable dynamics, like when an actor is speaking, then shouts.
So You're saying the H4n sucks when it comes to this? What can I do? set the levels differently?
I have a character that talks like that in my film.
So You're saying the H4n sucks when it comes to this? What can I do? set the levels differently?
I have a character that talks like that in my film.
No, it doesn't suck. I certainly like having a couple of levels from on source, like Alcove's mic splitter would give you. I'm still new to this H4n, as a friend of mine just gave me one, two weeks ago. (He had 4 of them.)
So, I'm still figuring a workflow on it that suits me. In 4 CH mode, you can insert the H4n's Compressor/Limiter effect on the built in mics (the actor can yell away), but keep the dynamics that the primary boom mic captures. That will be my next experiment.
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Well thought I would throw this in, but the Tascam DR40 has that dual safety recording (so you can set one lower than the other).
I don't have a Zoom H4n, but I hear that it actually matches up with the Rode NTG2 poorly since the preamp isn't very strong for the low levels of the NTG2.
I don't have a Zoom H4n, but I hear that it actually matches up with the Rode NTG2 poorly since the preamp isn't very strong for the low levels of the NTG2.