Would you say film schools/programs are "cliquey"?

[Liv]

Here's my situation. I live near two colleges, both of which have film programs. The first one is a community college (Sacramento City) - they have a great website with detailed descriptions of all their classes and programs, although the school itself is not known to be one of those gem community colleges that just happens to have a good film program. I've done plenty of internet searches, and the school comes up completely cold on all film radar. I can't find any specific reviews for the film program either.

The second school, the University of Davis California, does have a film program. Although it also isn't particularly renowned, I'm guessing it's still quite good, because student samples posted online all look very nice. I can find quite a bit of advertisement for the program online, but finding specific information on classes has been difficult.

My dilemma is as so. I don't want to spend 20k/year to attend UC Davis. I would however very willingly pay the 1k/year tuition to attend Sac City. When I go to college (I'm not entirely sure if I'll take a gap year or not), I plan on majoring in something practical and non-film related. That being said, if I do take a gap year before college, or even if I do attend college out of high school, I still want to pursue filmmaking heavily outside of school. That's going to be my first priority for at least the first two-three years after I graduate high school.

This is where I encounter roadblock #2. While screenwriting is a mostly solitary pursuit, you can't shoot a film all by yourself. You need at least a few actors to be in it, and a few other students to help shoot it. You need friends who like film just as much as you do. Maybe when you're older and have some experience under your belt you can afford to hire strangers for pay, but at my age, other students are far more realistic.

I originally thought Sac City (with its super-cheap $1,000/year tuition) would be a great gateway into making filmmaker friends - after all, it's so much easier to make friends if you're in a program with other like minded individuals. However, after pouring over the student reviews of Sac City, I've grown an unsettling suspicion that the students at this school (not in the technical programs like the nursing program - which is very highly regarded by the way - but the art department) may not be the most 'motivated' bunch. Though 1k is pennies compared to what most colleges charge, I don't want to tie myself into a program that'll mimic the film class I was in this previous year of high school - a whole lot of very nice, funny, interesting people who liked film, but didn't like it nearly enough to take it seriously and do the work (aka, they looked for the shortest, safest, easiest video idea they could find for a minimum grade)

This leaves me with one other option, which is to opt out of Sac City and attend UCD, where I would either double major in film and another practical degree, or minor in film. This isn't an option I'd really like to explore though, because money really is a big personal concern of mine.

I guess my main question is as follows - do you find that the students in film schools and film programs are open-minded towards working with people outside of their school? Or do they mostly stick to their own classmates. I understand that any film student would drop everything if James Cameron offered them a spot working alongside him. But, do you think these film students are open to forming friendships with regular filmmakers who aren't attending film school or the same film program as them?

I'm a little shy, and I don't want to rip off the Universities facilities or equipment. I'm not looking for lectures or materials at all . I'm just looking to branch out and make some filmmaker friends who I could shoot videos with. I don't live in an area with a strong filmmaking community; the only place I know of that has a concentrated number of students interested in film are these two schools, especially UCD.

To be honest, right now it sort of seems like college is one big bubble, and the kids inside of that bubble living the college-life wouldn't be too interested in leaving that bubble.

I'm planning on touring both schools later in the year. But I was hoping to get a little personal perspective from you guys first.

So what do you think? In your own experience, are the actors and filmmakers at film schools or film programs open to forming friendships with other young filmmakers who aren't currently attending college, or do they mostly stick to themselves and the niche groups formed inside the classroom? The big fear I'm grappling with now is that if I don't drop 20k/year to major in film, I'll be stuck by myself with no one to practice shooting videos with. Filmmaking is a team effort, and you need a good team (even if it's a tiny one) if you want to learn and grow. And really, filming a tree or your pet can only get you so far. I've heard this cautionary tale before that not attending film school is filmmaking suicide, if not for the lack of instruction, then certainly for the sheer lack of like-minded, motivated individuals to collaborate with.

Thanks

 

[sfoster]

I'm self taught, so I can't answer anything related specifically to film school. If you want to see something I've made this is my second short film so you can compare that to what people are producing from these film schools that you've seen.

Now here is what I can say from experience..

You need friends who like film just as much as you do

You don't. Nobody is into film as much as I am. I live and breathe it and that's the way it's been for almost 3 years now. My only goal in life right now is to make something beautiful that can live on after I die.

I do all the writing, I do storyboards, I do the casting, schedule auditions, I call and schedule everything with all cast and crew, I direct, I hold the boom mic, I edit the footage, I do all aspects of the sound including spending days listening to tracks of music for download, I color correct.

As you've said, none of this would be possible without a team to help me film. I have an awesome friend I met off this website, who co-produces with me and does the actual shooting.. while I hold the boom mic, because I don't have anyone else to do it..

That's what it takes. Not everyone is this obsessive, film school is better for those people. It can be helpful to have other people as serious about it as you are, but it's not necessary. All it takes is one person to lead and be willing to do what it takes. And to have the talent to create great stories.. no amount of enthusiasm and work will fix bad story telling

 

[AnonWriter]

While screenwriting is a mostly solitary pursuit, you can't shoot a film all by yourself.

Just an idea, you could use the internet to have someone else produce your short scripts? Post them on forums like this and offer them to aspiring director / producers. Or find a director / producer who has the resources and talent and offer to write them something from scratch. That's something I plan on doing when I'll get better at writing.

do you find that the students in film schools and film programs are open-minded towards working with people outside of their school?

I can see no reason why they wouldn't be willing to work with someone outside of their school. Making friends with them socially would be harder though.

Just my 0,02 euros. I haven't gone to film school.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

The two schools are likely to be very different in that respect - there are huge differences in the student body at each.

At a community college most of the students are attending part time, and they come from a wide variety of backgrounds; they'll range from fresh out of high school to retirees. They'll each have their own reasons for being there, and their own goals and interests apart from the specific classes they are taking.

At Davis you'll have a much more homogenous group of students. Most will be around the same age, with similar reasons for being there - specifically beginning a career in their field of study. For the most part they'll also be dedicating their time to school - they may have a job to help cover costs, but outside of that they'll be living and breathing school and college life the whole time. Their friends will be the people they live with and attend school with - most of them will have left their previous social groups behind when they came to school and will be in the process of forming new ones, based heavily on their shared experience of attending school.

Both can have their advantages. At the community college you'll find people with much broader life experience, while the university is likely to be a much more insular crowd with limited experience outside of school. The university students as a whole are much more likely to be dedicated to the practice of filmmaking though, while the community college is going to have a broader mix of interest levels.

The challenges will thus be different. Yes - at the university you'll probably have more trouble getting people to work with you if you're not a student. They're all working on their own projects for classes. The crew for those projects will mostly come from their fellow students - so when they aren't working on their own projects they're probably working on someone else's, or attending class, or writing a paper, or going to a party, or going home for the weekend, etc. At the community college you'll probably find more people who are working on projects outside of school, and they may be more open to working with you outside of school - but you also may find people who only have a casual interest in filmmaking, or who are interested but have too much else going on in their life to spend a lot of time on stuff outside of class.

What it basically comes down to is it's going to be a challenge to find people to work with, period. It's certainly not filmmaking suicide to skip film school, but you'll have to go out and find people to work with. Film school might make that a little easier, but not necessarily. Film school puts a bunch of like-minded people together in one place; it's still up to you to reach out to them and forge the relationships necessary to get people working together on projects. If you're not good at that, you could easily find yourself spending a lot of money and being mostly on your own while the people around you work with other people.

 

[Liv]

I do all the writing, I do storyboards, I do the casting, schedule auditions, I call and schedule everything with all cast and crew, I direct, I hold the boom mic, I edit the footage, I do all aspects of the sound including spending days listening to tracks of music for download, I color correct.

As you've said, none of this would be possible without a team to help me film. I have an awesome friend I met off this website, who co-produces with me and does the actual shooting.. while I hold the boom mic, because I don't have anyone else to do it..

That's very impressive (and inspiring). I fortunately have a sister who could team up with me, if you say all of this is possible with only two people.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you find people to act in your shorts if you're a one-man team? Is it more difficult convincing actors to give a little time to your short, especially if you don't have a small group of people backing you?

 

[Liv]

Just an idea, you could use the internet to have someone else produce your short scripts? Post them on forums like this and offer them to aspiring director / producers. Or find a director / producer who has the resources and talent and offer to write them something from scratch. That's something I plan on doing when I'll get better at writing.

I appreciate the suggestion (really), but I don't think that's the route for me. I'd like to be a writer/director, so handing off projects to someone else would defeat the purpose of what I'm trying to do.

 

[Liv]

Both can have their advantages. At the community college you'll find people with much broader life experience, while the university is likely to be a much more insular crowd with limited experience outside of school. The university students as a whole are much more likely to be dedicated to the practice of filmmaking though, while the community college is going to have a broader mix of interest levels.

The challenges will thus be different. Yes - at the university you'll probably have more trouble getting people to work with you if you're not a student. They're all working on their own projects for classes. The crew for those projects will mostly come from their fellow students - so when they aren't working on their own projects they're probably working on someone else's, or attending class, or writing a paper, or going to a party, or going home for the weekend, etc. At the community college you'll probably find more people who are working on projects outside of school, and they may be more open to working with you outside of school - but you also may find people who only have a casual interest in filmmaking, or who are interested but have too much else going on in their life to spend a lot of time on stuff outside of class.

I was actually originally attracted to the idea of being able to take classes with a more diverse group - I feel like the students at a community college would bring new and fresh perspectives to classes (especially art classes), as opposed to a traditional university where most of the students fall into similar age ranges and levels of life experience.

I'm not quite sure where I stand anymore. I don't really need an incredibly ambitious, fast-paced environment (though I certainly wouldn't argue against it!). I would be perfectly happy being in a smaller film class where even 10% of the students took filmmaking seriously and the other 90% were only loosely invested. I'm having a hard time getting a feel for those numbers however, because I can't find any reviews online for Sac City's film program in specific.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[sfoster]

That's very impressive (and inspiring). I fortunately have a sister who could team up with me, if you say all of this is possible with only two people.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you find people to act in your shorts if you're a one-man team? Is it more difficult convincing actors to give a little time to your short, especially if you don't have a small group of people backing you?

Start off with friends just doing you a favor, and then use what you produce to impress people and attract more serious talent. if it's 1 guy or 20, what people care about is how good or cool they will look on film. it's just about the end result, and you need something to show them to prove you're capable.

the first short I ever did I used my parents pool to film a short that took place at a pool party. Gave me a chance to get a lot of my friends on camera, and I found out that one of them shined. Put him as the lead in my next short. The one that I linked above, I used to advertise on a couple of actor groups in FB and also on a mailing list for DC which is 45 minutes from me. Now this sunday I will finally be auditioning real actors that have been on tv and in movies (as very minor roles). A huge step up from friends that are just doing me a favor.

I have very specific steps I am taking toward my goals.. produce short good enough to attract talent. Use talent to produce short good enough to enter real festivals. Use festivals to meet people to help produce a feature.

 

[Liv]

the first short I ever did I used my parents pool to film a short that took place at a pool party. Gave me a chance to get a lot of my friends on camera, and I found out that one of them shined. Put him as the lead in my next short. The one that I linked above, I used to advertise on a couple of actor groups in FB and also on a mailing list for DC which is 45 minutes from me. Now this sunday I will finally be auditioning real actors that have been on tv and in movies (as very minor roles). A huge step up from friends that are just doing me a favor.

I may buck up the courage to do that (although it almost seems like asking strangers to be in the short would be less intimidating than asking someone you know). It might be different for guys, but I know most of my friends can be very camera shy!

If anything, I was hoping attending either UCD or Sac City would put me in close proximity to the people working in their acting/theater programs - whether it be seriously or just for fun.

 

[sfoster]

I may buck up the courage to do that (although it almost seems like asking strangers to be in the short would be less intimidating than asking someone you know). It might be different for guys, but I know most of my friends can be very camera shy!

If anything, I was hoping attending either UCD or Sac City would put me in close proximity to the people working in their acting/theater programs - whether it be seriously or just for fun.

A lot of people are camera shy .. i had one guy that was a no-call no-show.. it can ruin some friendships if you count on people and they completely let you down. That's the main problem with using friends

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Film schools are a rip off. With the money you save you can buy filmmaking friends and complete an entire film too. The reason so many of these school exist is because there are an endless supply of suckers willing to go into lifetime debt for a next to zero chance of directing a Hollywood blockbuster.

Moral: Get a degree in a field where there is a high demand for workers and the pay is high (ie: nursing) and save money to self finance your own film. The personal rewards will likely be better and you won't owe anyone any money.

 

[Liv]

Film schools are a rip off. With the money you save you can buy filmmaking friends and complete an entire film too. The reason so many of these school exist is because there are an endless supply of suckers willing to go into lifetime debt for a next to zero chance of directing a Hollywood blockbuster.

Moral: Get a degree in a field where there is a high demand for workers and the pay is high (ie: nursing) and save money to self finance your own film. The personal rewards will likely be better and you won't owe anyone any money.

I completely agree. I have always been - and will always be - strongly against schools like USC or NYU that bleed students dry.

Even though I plan on majoring in something non-film related, I still find the idea of a $1,000 community college film program enticing. My only concern is that in a situation like this, you really do "get what you pay for". Though I'm not looking for amazing equipment and teachers, the one thing I am looking for is dedicated filmmaker friends. I'm still unsure if a school like Sac City can fulfill that wish, even partially.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

the one thing I am looking for is dedicated filmmaker friends.

One way to find out is to shoot a couple of no-budget shorts and dedicated filmmakers will make themselves apparent to you. The "filmmakers" I met before shooting my feature are long out of the picture as it turned out they were all talk.

Good luck.

 

[Liv]

The "filmmakers" I met before shooting my feature are long out of the picture as it turned out they were all talk.

Where did you meet these "filmmakers" (or the real filmmakers you eventually replaced these "filmmakers" with)? Was it at college? Or was it through local filmmaking groups/the internet? or, did you have a couple of regular friends who just happened to be interested in film?

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I completely agree. I have always been - and will always be - strongly against schools like USC or NYU that bleed students dry.

I think it's a mistake to generalize about film schools - there are good and bad ones.

USC & NYU are a couple of the big ones and they're very good - very difficult to get into, they provide a solid education, and you're likely to come out with contacts that in the long run may well be more valuable than the admittedly expensive tuition. If someone was serious about making a career in the film industry and got accepted into either one I personally wouldn't try to dissuade them from attending.

They are very different than the dozens of private schools that have sprung up and grown quickly over the last few decades - places like Full Sail, Art Institute, etc. These places are equally expensive, but don't necessarily provide a good education and won't get you the kind of industry contacts the other type will. The biggest difference - and a big warning sign for me with any school - is that the primary admission exam consists of your ability to sign the tuition check, or successfully qualify for student loans. These kinds of schools have been coming under increasing scrutiny in recent years for paying recruiters bounties per student, recruiting students based on their ability to qualify for federal aid, and cooking the numbers on their job placement success. They are essentially diploma mills expressly designed to "bleed students dry" - leaving them with massive student loan debt but without the training or skills necessary to start a career and realistically expect to pay the loans.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Where did you meet these "filmmakers" (or the real filmmakers you eventually replaced these "filmmakers" with)? Was it at college? Or was it through local filmmaking groups/the internet? or, did you have a couple of regular friends who just happened to be interested in film?

I met a fella who went to a film school somewhere (it could have been BS) who was widely known as an "pro" indie filmmaker in our community and had the attention of film community "movers and shakers" who've been talking about making a feature for years. (Although he had expensive gear, he apparently only had a few corporate videos on his reel.) Unfortunately he scoffed at my idea of shooting a feature with a prosumer camera and a small film crew, he eventually closed the door to access to that filmmaking community even though I had some on board earlier. Since he was the one who went to "film school"
his influence was considerable. (This group never made a film).

So armed with a few loyal & trusted friends who were interested, but not knowledgable of the business, I taught them what they needed to know to crew for me. Virtually everyone else, including almost all actors came by the way of craigslist or through somone I initially found on CL). (Unpaid, too.) Yes, there was a lot of separating the cream from the chaff, but my feature film was written to be filmed in bits and pieces over a period of a few years.

While I'm sure meeting the right people in your film community can work but it could backfire if there are political isuues. Your loyal friends can work if you've time to teach/train. While the internet is full of flakers, there are people out there that are willing to do anything to be part of your project if you're professional enough in the way you go about it.

Good luck.