Why do you think that so many directors are men?
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Poke said:
Guys, nobody is wrong. There are so many standpoints to look at there is no way anyone can be completely right or wrong. The best thing we can do is what we are doing. Discussing it. Frankly, you learn more from the question, than you do from thinking you know the answers....
--spinner
ahoy there midnight9 -
re: your post - i don't get it. do you mean to suggest that males are better at manufacturing?
re: your post - i don't get it. do you mean to suggest that males are better at manufacturing?
I don't think Midnight's suggestingbthat men are better at anything. The question is "why are there more men directors?" Midnight's answer:
If you want to debate that there are more men than women in manufacturing or if filmmaking is manufacturing, fine. But let's not fall into the trap again of thinking anyone's saying that men are better than women.
Poke
Midnight9 said:
If you want to debate that there are more men than women in manufacturing or if filmmaking is manufacturing, fine. But let's not fall into the trap again of thinking anyone's saying that men are better than women.
Poke
The real reason is this....
A long history of sexual discrimination that is in the process of being overturned.
Poke
A long history of sexual discrimination that is in the process of being overturned.
Poke
I agree completely with that. My above 'coincidence' comment is meant to suggest that there is no innate difference that makes men better at it than women or vice-versa (the very trap Poke rightly warned about falling into earlier).
Nique Zoolio said:
There's only the knowledge of the higher form of life that is Poke.
Poke
My favorite word...circumstantial. I see a good mixture of men vs. women in fast food restaurants. However, I do notice that the women tend to be the servers whereas the ment tend to be the cooks.
I wasn't disagreeing with Zen, I'd just like to here some evidence for a the strong statement.
Poke
I wasn't disagreeing with Zen, I'd just like to here some evidence for a the strong statement.
Poke
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No need to ridicule me. What determines a job to be a 'manufacturing' job'? If you consider the world (which you would have to, rather than a pre-determined area with a proliferation of industry geared towards ONLY hiring men) then a woman in a third world country weaving a basket is 'manufacturing' something. THEN Considering Midnight9's 'argument': there are more men in the film industry because there are more men in the building and manufacturing trades...it's not a rational conclusion .
Again, I am not disagreeing, I was merely wanting Zen to explain a bit more. If I say something, and you say it's "specious," I'd like to know why you think so. In this case I wanted to know why Zen thought so.
No ridicule was meant in what I said. I echoed what I've been saying throughout this thread.
If you want to take it that direction then it's a valid point.
But I believe Midnight's actual words were "manufacturing trades," which I took to mean the manufacturing industry, and I don't believe a woman basket weaving in a third world country to be in that category. So, taking what I believe he meant into account, I don't think that argument is valid.
Poke
No ridicule was meant in what I said. I echoed what I've been saying throughout this thread.
bird said:
If you want to take it that direction then it's a valid point.
But I believe Midnight's actual words were "manufacturing trades," which I took to mean the manufacturing industry, and I don't believe a woman basket weaving in a third world country to be in that category. So, taking what I believe he meant into account, I don't think that argument is valid.
Poke
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I can accept that. However, from that purist perspective on the def of manufacturing....that would make filmmaking even less, categorically, 'manufacturing'. The basket would probably serve a more immediate function in an economy before a film would.
Seriously, I'm willing to bet that most filmmakers see their work as a creative endeavor rather than (just) product .
Directors are in charge of manufacturing a product in this case a film. That is a true statement. Most of them are men, also true. I didn't say men made better movies. Still the manufacturing label fits both film and television production. Repetition, How many of you know the theme song to Gilligans Island or Ralph Cramden's line "To the moon, Alice?" These lines and songts branded their products as much as "I'm stuck on Band-aids because band-aids... The fact that studio's insist on test audiences screams manufactured production. When the best directors in the country are re-making movies instead of writing
original material is another nod to manufacturing. And finally use of thge word Franchise in several magazineswhen refering to Star Wars, Batman and others.
It's a manufacturing industry.
original material is another nod to manufacturing. And finally use of thge word Franchise in several magazineswhen refering to Star Wars, Batman and others.
It's a manufacturing industry.
Fast food workers manufacture a product: Say, a Big Mac. Repetition: 'Two all beef-paddies, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame bun.' (Sells a hamburger, not a commercial). Tested products on consumers for mass campaign: BBQ Beef Sandwiches, Shamrock Shakes, Chicken Breast Strips. McDonald's: BIGGITY BIG FRANCHISE.
IMO, filmmaking is not, in the traditional sense, a manufacturing trade or you would have to add fast food workers and that would change the stats (based on gender) for this trade immensely.
IMO, filmmaking is not, in the traditional sense, a manufacturing trade or you would have to add fast food workers and that would change the stats (based on gender) for this trade immensely.
I use the word manufacturing to make the point that a product - a film - is being produced for mass consumption. Many artisits are involved in the process but in the end it's a product on a shelf just like a can of soup. Also, I use the manufacturing term because I've worked on projects with artists, actors, directors and writers who waste valuable production time talking about their "craft". Such self important talk show nonsense. Once cameras begin to roll time is money and any artist who doesn't have their artistic chops down, their craft mastered is going to cost you money. Somewhere along the way art has to stop and the business of getting it done begins. That's manufacturing. If it's done right it looks like art. Sometimes it's even a masterpiece.
Women are capable of manufactuing masterpieces. Some have. In my view women have played a more important roll than just directing. Women have excelled in the editing department. It's no secret that a good editor can save a mediocore director. In some cases they can even save your life. Check out Final Cut with Robin Williams. I always wanted to ask Dee Dee Williams what she thought of a story where the editor is the savior of an otherwise flawed life.
Women are capable of manufactuing masterpieces. Some have. In my view women have played a more important roll than just directing. Women have excelled in the editing department. It's no secret that a good editor can save a mediocore director. In some cases they can even save your life. Check out Final Cut with Robin Williams. I always wanted to ask Dee Dee Williams what she thought of a story where the editor is the savior of an otherwise flawed life.
...I guess you've seen a lot of pretension where you are. The best situation is to be talking to people who are trying to get better at 'their craft' as opposed to being around those trying to impress people with how smart they are. This way nobody 'knows everything' and you might even pick up some pointers. I don't even want to pretend to know everything. Who wants to be a poser? (don't everyone get up at the same time
)...I hope somewhere along the way the art doesn't really have to stop, so much as you learn to create a hybrid of creativity and knowing when to get everything done. The minute you rush, you could end up with a catastrophe...uh, that would suck...
--spinner