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misc Why do TV shows keep attention better?

sfoster

sfoster

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Why is it 180 minute movies seem long as hell and in dire need of editing, but I can spend an entire week watching 180 hours of 24 and then want another season?
What exactly is going on that a movie has way more thought, time and money put into it and yet is boring and long with 1/10th of the running time of a show?

Anyone have any good resources or opinions on structuring of a TV show - not just episodes but seasons as well...
Like is every single episode hitting the same notes at the same time if I were to go back and mark everything down for a season of 24?

Big moment at 12 minutes, 30 minutes and the end of the episode?
What about season after season after season, do they all just keep repeating the heroes journey?
 
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sfoster said:
Like is every single episode hitting the same notes at the same time if I were to go back and mark everything down for a season of 24?
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I think that's exactly what you should do, either to 24 or something else that you really like.

Make a beat sheet for an existing series - not every episode but maybe a season or 2.

Do it for a couple of series and find the similarities.

I do think the key is a a great story arc for each episode plus the big picture story arc for the series itself.
 
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sfoster said:
Why is it 180 minute movies seem long as hell and in dire need of editing, but I can spend an entire week watching 180 hours of 24 and then want another season?
What exactly is going on that a movie has way more thought, time and money put into it and yet is boring and long with 1/10th of the running time of a show?

Anyone have any good resources or opinions on structuring of a TV show - not just episodes but seasons as well...
Like is every single episode hitting the same notes at the same time if I were to go back and mark everything down for a season of 24?

Big moment at 12 minutes, 30 minutes and the end of the episode?
What about season after season after season, do they all just keep repeating the heroes journey?
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Referencing my old RTF book (from memory) it goes into crafting attention to lead into the product, so the writing is always meant to keep you hanging on until the next commercial break. Where as a movie is artistic, and lets you think about it years and years later. A TV show is meant for you to hang on at every second leading to the advertisement. What is crazy is I can overly think about a movie like Jacobs Ladder from 1990, but be more entertained by an episode of the walking dead. Do I remember what happened in any episode of walking dead? Not really, except for the highlights. Do I remember Jacobs ladder? Yup, that movie still has me thinking even all these year later.
 
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mlesemann said:
I think that's exactly what you should do, either to 24 or something else that you really like.

Make a beat sheet for an existing series - not every episode but maybe a season or 2.

Do it for a couple of series and find the similarities.

I do think the key is a a great story arc for each episode plus the big picture story arc for the series itself.
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Some people seem to resist being systematic and organized about it, and say that thinking about it diminishes creativity. It doesn't, you can study and learn, and still be as creative as you want. The real difference that doing beat sheets and analysis makes is that you go back to the creative side with more education, a better sense of the foundational principles, etc.

Same thing with music theory, learning the base patterns gives you a structure to build creative ideas on.

If someone points to something and says "I want to build something like that" it really does make sense that the first question you should ask is "what EXACTLY is that thing?"

So I agree 100%.

I think everyone here already knows this, but I'm leaving this note for the 200 invisible guests that come by each day.
 
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More directly responding to the OP. I think it's already kind of been said, movies are intended to be an uncompromising one shot experience. A lot of those compromises movies don't have are made for pacing and dopamine cycle purposes. Movies = story first, TV = viewer experience first. TV is a lot more comfortable, even down to the aspect ratiio.

That's actually one of the more surprising answers to your question. Learned this long ago. The brain likes the wide aspect ratio of cinema better, but it tires you out faster. 16x9 induces psychological fatigue much slower than even the same content in 2.4/1.
 
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sfoster said:
interesting answers, i never would have guessed people were making movies boring on purpose
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I think it comes down to cool vs classic, something can be cool, but classic lasts. It is why I am writing or thinking about writing something that isn’t classic, but just is cool enough to forget about it later (so I can make money) lol I am obviously failing at both my attempts so far lol
 
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Classic is overrated. most people dont watch old movies and everything gets remade and rebooted anyway, no matter how classic you think your film is, it's gonna be replaced.
 
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sfoster said:
Classic is overrated. most people dont watch old movies and everything gets remade and rebooted anyway, no matter how classic you think your film is, it's gonna be replaced.
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Yes, but making a classic film can make a ton of money, where another episode of whatever gets nowhere right? Can you tell me about an episode whatever stranger things or narcos? (Whatever Netflix special) or can you tell me about a scene from back to the future or from any other blockbuster.

People pay for films (long term) that resonate somehow, if not, why are they “movie stars” ?

I am not for or against it all, I just want to make money to travel the world lol
 
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Dean Jay said:
Yes, but making a classic film can make a ton of money, where another episode of whatever gets nowhere right? Can you tell me about an episode whatever stranger things or narcos? (Whatever Netflix special) or can you tell me about a scene from back to the future or from any other blockbuster.

People pay for films (long term) that resonate somehow, if not, why are they “movie stars” ?

I am not for or against it all, I just want to make money to travel the world lol
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Youre talking nonsense to me now. I can ABSOLUTELY name cherished scenes from popular TV shows.

Lets see, off the top of my head..

Danny DeVito walking down from his booth in Taxi for the first time. fucking classic.
No soup for you!!! Come back one year.
Ross yelling PIVOT as they moved a couch upstairs in friends.
Jack Bauer calling someone from witness protection into government custody, cutting their head off and giving it to a criminal to earn their trust. lol theres so much shit jack has done that was amazing.
[Spoiler scene] in Frontier season 2, that shit gutted me. ouch.
Homer simpson backing into bushes.
Yeah Mr. White.... YEAH SCIENCE!!!
The Red Wedding

You're cherry picking the top 0.001% of movies that have been released and then claiming movies have some sort of special cherished place in peoples hearts. most movies are watched and forgotten.
 
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sfoster said:
Youre talking nonsense to me now. I can ABSOLUTELY name cherished scenes from popular TV shows.

Lets see, off the top of my head..

Danny DeVito walking down from his booth in Taxi for the first time. fucking classic.
No soup for you!!! Come back one year.
Ross yelling PIVOT as they moved a couch upstairs in friends.
Jack Bauer calling someone from witness protection into government custody, cutting their head off and giving it to a criminal to earn their trust. lol theres so much shit jack has done that was amazing.
[Spoiler scene] in Frontier season 2, that shit gutted me. ouch.
Homer simpson backing into bushes.
Yeah Mr. White.... YEAH SCIENCE!!!
The Red Wedding

You're cherry picking the top 0.001% of movies that have been released and then claiming movies have some sort of special cherished place in peoples hearts. most movies are watched and forgotten.
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Maybe to the select few that are actually paying attention, just sayin, from a numbers and money standpoint, movies make millions, tv shows are usually forgotten (no matter how good they are)

Sure Seinfeld and friends bring in the bucks, but what else? Not much…how much you think Star Wars continuously makes from 1978?
 
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Dean Jay said:
Maybe to the select few that are actually paying attention, just sayin, from a numbers and money standpoint, movies make millions, tv shows are usually forgotten (no matter how good they are)

Sure Seinfeld and friends bring in the bucks, but what else? Not much…how much you think Star Wars continuously makes from 1978?
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"AMC’s Breaking Bad was a massive success, earning an estimated $1.5 billion in revenue for the network. "
IDK man 1.5 billion sounds pretty okay to me. and then it continued to make money with a spin off better call saul, so even MORE money.

i know you said that you forget TV shows no matter how good they are, so you probably dont remember breaking bad, maybe thats part of why you don't think tv shows make money. I get your point though its not STAR WARS kinda money. people aren't watching breaking bad in china.
 
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sfoster said:
"AMC’s Breaking Bad was a massive success, earning an estimated $1.5 billion in revenue for the network. "
IDK man 1.5 billion sounds pretty okay to me. and then it continued to make money with a spin off better call saul, so even MORE money.

i know you said that you forget TV shows no matter how good they are, so you probably dont remember breaking bad, maybe thats part of why you don't think tv shows make money. I get your point though its not STAR WARS kinda money. people aren't watching breaking bad in china.
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Will it make money 40 years later? Do you watch tv shows from the 70s now? What shows do you watch from the 70s? Are they still making money?
 
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Dean Jay said:
It just goes back to my original point, tv shows are created for you to watch until you are shown a product to buy.
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well thats a pretty nonsense point, i have not seen a commercial during television in like 10 years, what decade are you living in? or are you just trolling me. I've never seen a commercial on netflix or hbo or showtime or hulu, you keep talking nonsense to me and i think its a waste of time. also I did watch some cosby show earlier this year which is.. drum roll... FORTY YEARS OLD. nothing youre saying makes a lick of sense, i can only assume you are just trying to mess with me.
 
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sfoster said:
well thats a pretty nonsense point, i have not seen a commercial during television in like 10 years, what decade are you living in? or are you just trolling me. I've never seen a commercial on netflix or hbo or showtime or hulu, you keep talking nonsense to me and i think its a waste of time. also I did watch some cosby show earlier this year which is.. drum roll... FORTY YEARS OLD. nothing youre saying makes a lick of sense, i can only assume you are just trying to mess with me.
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So watching a movie free with adds is just a non money making idea? YouTube putting adds in front of a video is just to annoy? Trust me, advertising works for the majority of the billions watching lol

TV shows make their money based on advertising, just how it is for the real world of making money.

Every television show is designed to have you hooked until the commercial, just how it is. If you don’t watch in that way like the majority do, you pay for it by subscription, either way you are paying to watch with the purpose of them selling a product/commercial originally.
 
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Dean Jay said:
YouTube putting adds in front of a video is just to annoy?
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omg we're talking about youtube videos now 😄 😄 😄

Nurses Office GIF by Melanie Martinez
 
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