Where to Start!

W

wavering

I am in the very fortunate position of having the time and money to make a short narrative film. I have never been short of story ideas (in fact, I have too many) but have absolutely no idea how to start making a film!

Ideally, I would go on a weeks course to get the absolute basics. So does anybody know of a short course in UK or any other English speaking country?

Failing that, maybe I could find somebody who knows all this stuff and pay them a fee to pick their brains for a few hours?

Or maybe a good book?

All ideas appreciated ...
 
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Or maybe make a search on this forum? =) Trust me, I also didn't know where to make the first step, spent half an hour on this site and I already know a lot! Try it
 
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As dvdguy said, you can start by picking the brains
of the people here. And you can do that without
paying anything. You will find information on cources,
film schools, books about making movies, what
cameras to look at, audio and lighting, casting and
editing.

First thing you need to do is write a script. Have you
done that yet?
 
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directorik said:
First thing you need to do is write a script. Have you done that yet?
Click to expand...

LOL! I have written several scripts - one of which I submitted to the Orange Film competition about 4 years ago and got back a response which I thought was amazing (I expected two lines saying "rubbish" - not twelve pages of closely argued analysis saying "rubbish").

Actually, here is an idea for somebody else. Write a script in which an English Businessman is the hero - this would be the first such script in the history of the world. That is the only complaint I have about "The Invention of Lying" - a film about a script writer. Puuullleeeaaassseee. Couldn't he have been a Quantity Surveyor or an Assembly Language Programmer - anything other than a damn scriptwriter. Show some imagination for God's sake.

Where was I. Yes. Picking brains. My experience is that the most difficult thing to acquire is the kind of generalised stuff which a course or a long conversation can provide. Especially answers to questions that you would not have asked in the first place ie Donald Rumsfeld's "unknown unknowns".

For instance in my own field(s) of semi-expertise I could probably save you a year by talking to you for an hour or so but every statement I made would give rise to further questions until you comprehended what I am driving at eg a simple statement such as "if you want to build websites then some grasp of ASP or PHP will be very valuable" would give rise to whole series of responses and it would take a long time for you to see what I am driving at.

That is why people have meetings. Well, that is why very well organised people whose time is valuable, have meetings.

For all I know film is the same - maybe somebody can save me a year of wasted time. I guess I need a mentor. Anybody with real expertise want to make £250 by letting me pick their brains for a couple of hours in London? I am serious - I will even buy the drinks

Meanwhile, a good book would be handy or an idiot's guide to making films ...

Bob
More than you want to know about me is here::)
http://www.thingysoft.com/myblog/2008_week090.asp
 
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well sure, experts can give you more information a lot quicker, but so can this site. Sure, it might take a while, but, it still beats paying money for courses. Still, it's your decision =) Good luck!
 
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It was not my intent to insult you or to question your experience
as a writer. Since this was your first post here I was curious
about you. My intent was simply to learn more about you as a
fellow filmmaker - albeit a new one.

I apologize for asking that question, Bob. It won’t happen again.
 
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directorik said:
It was not my intent to insult you or to question your experience as a writer. Since this was your first post here I was curious about you. My intent was simply to learn more about you as a
fellow filmmaker - albeit a new one. I apologize for asking that question, Bob. It won’t happen again.
Click to expand...

Hey! I didn't take it as an insult. Perhaps a slightly over-sharp observation but it is easy to give the wrong impression in print - I do it all the time. As for my experience as a writer, well, I'm not a real writer - just somebody who lacking a local pub bar to lean on takes it out on the innocent web reading public.

But the main problem is that I am not yet a fellow film maker - I am a "wannabe film maker" which is a different thing. So, anybody want to make £250 or if money is insulting, how about dinner at the Ritz? They have an amazingly good restaurant there ...

Seriously, a course or a mentor or an idiot's guide book would be good. Just reading posts on any forum really is not enough as they tend to answer specific questions rather than much more general philosophical questions such as "what are you trying to achieve?" or "why do you want to do this?" which tend to need a long discourse to resolve
.
 
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dvdguy
Thanks! That is a very useful site and I have now read all that stuff but, of course, it raises a whole raft of questions in turn. I am reluctant to raise specific questions as no doubt each one has an answer but that is not really the point. No doubt film-making is like any other area of activity, the practice is very different from the theory. In practice I suspect a lot of it will boil down to the seemingly trivial but actually important, like:

How do you round up actors?
How much do you pay them?
What forms should they sign?
How do you stop your girlfriend being jealous if the leading actress is very pretty?
Where do you feed them?
Where do they sleep if it all drags on?
How do you fire them if they turn out useless?
What happens if it rains?

I guess all this is called experience and you cannot get it from books. I believe that somebody has published a book showing that to become an expert takes about 7 years of hard work or about 10,000 hours of effort ... I think I still need a guru.

Or, do you just start by making a simple film and use that experience and the credibility it (may) give you to move onto the next one? Certainly, setting yourself up as a film-maker never having made a film is likely to result in plenty of derision unless you have balls of steel and a front like Brighton pier ...

Maybe the first film should be animated? Anybody got opinions on that? Or star your girlfriend (and maybe your wife too?)
.
 
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wavering said:
Thanks! That is a very useful site and I have now read all that stuff but, of course, it raises a whole raft of questions in turn.
Click to expand...
Which is why I suggested you poke around here on the message
boards and ask the specific questions you still need the answers to.

How do you round up actors?
Click to expand...
A question answered in great detail on several threads right here
on indietalk. Short answer: You post a casting notice and hold
auditions.
How much do you pay them?
Click to expand...
A question answered in great detail on several threads right here
on indietalk. Many actors will work for free. The area where you
are making the movie also comes into play. In big cities where
there are a lot of actors who make their living acting you will pay
more than in an area where most actors are dedicated hobbyists.
What forms should they sign?
Click to expand...
A question answered in great detail on several threads right here
on indietalk.
How do you stop your girlfriend being jealous if the leading actress is very pretty?
Click to expand...
This one I've never seen covered here. How do you stop any girlfriend
from being jealous? I know I can't answer this one. When you figure
it out, please let me know.
Where do you feed them?
Click to expand...
Right there on set. You have some tables with chairs and hand them
the food.
SV300047_2.jpg

Some productions use a catering truck:
outdoor.jpg

What's the old Mel Brooks line?
Leo Bloom: Actors are not animals! They 're human beings!
Max Bialystock: They are? Have you ever eaten with one?
Where do they sleep if it all drags on?
Click to expand...
I've seen actors sleep right on the genny:
HB-BTS07.jpg

I've seen crew fall asleep in chairs, under catering tables, in the back
of the set dressing truck where the furniture pads are (one of MY
favorite places) and even standing up.
How do you fire them if they turn out useless?
Click to expand...
You pull them aside, away from the rest of the crew and say, "This
isn't working out. I'm sorry, but you're fired."
What happens if it rains?
Click to expand...
If it's a very organized show you will have what's called a "cover set" -
an interior set ready at a moments notice for an upcoming scene. If
you're shooting only exteriors and don't have a cover set available, you
scramble to cover all the equipment and you wait.

I guess all this is called experience and you cannot get it from books. I believe that somebody has published a book showing that to become an expert takes about 7 years of hard work or about 10,000 hours of effort
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. Experience, for me, is the only way I really learn.
I could read a dozen books and still not get it until I see it in action.

I'm a little concerned about that 7 years of hard work to become an
expert. I've been at it a LOT longer than 7 years and I am still not an
expert. I must be a slow learner. Maybe next year....

Or, do you just start by making a simple film and use that experience and the credibility it (may) give you to move onto the next one?
Click to expand...
That's what I did. I picked up my dad's little 8mm camera and started
making simple films. I did that a lot and little by little I got better and
better. And I can tell you with certainty; I don't have balls of steel. I
just really wanted to make movies and wasn't worried about making
a lot of crap as I learned.
 
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directorik
Many thanks for writing at such length! It was not so much that I wanted specific answers to those questions (I did realise that they were probably answered already on the forum) but rather that I could see an almost limitless number of questions and they were merely examples!

What I am trying to avoid is what happened to me when I left an extremely well paid and secure job to go off and become a millionaire in the property business. I had read all the books and I knew exactly how to do it. Seven years later I was very close to starving to death - theory did not seem to work out quite as it should have. I could have saved at least three of these years if somebody who really knew what they were doing had said to me "Don't even think of going into residential letting - go for commercial property with FR&I leases which are in a mess and sort them out" *

That advice is literally woth millions of pounds and I am looking for something similar here - a conversation with a real expert that will save me a couple of years - so, I live in hope!

Regards
Bob

* Did it have a happy ending? Well, money really does not bring happiness but it is a lot better than being poor and unhappy. Of course, if this were a film, I would come to a sticky end - maybe crash my 911 Turbo - there is nothing more irritating than a smug rich bastard.
.
.
 
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wavering said:
directorik
Many thanks for writing at such length! It was not so much that I wanted specific answers to those questions (I did realise that they were probably answered already on the forum) but rather that I could see an almost limitless number of questions and they were merely examples!
Click to expand...
You're right, there is a limitless number of questions. I've been a
working professional for 30 years. I still have questions.

What I am trying to avoid is what happened to me when I left an extremely well paid and secure job to go off and become a millionaire in the property business. I had read all the books and I knew exactly how to do it. Seven years later I was very close to starving to death - theory did not seem to work out quite as it should have. I could have saved at least three of these years if somebody who really knew what they were doing had said to me "Don't even think of going into residential letting - go for commercial property with FR&I leases which are in a mess and sort them out" *
Click to expand...
If you feel paying someone £250 will save you a couple of years
of research, work and question asking in the movie business,
you may be disapointed. I'm not convinced there is an answer
even remotly similar to your story here when it comes to making
a movie.

But I've been known to be wrong. A lot. Maybe the answers are
out there and can be discovered with a few hours consulting.

You want to call me and do it over the phone, I'll be glad to answer
any questions I can - and not charge you at all. If you want to fly
me to the Ritz for that dinner, I'll accecpt that, too. No other fee
needed.

Or you might just have to do what the rest of us have done (and
what you did in the property business) - make the mistakes , get
close to starvation, go months (even years) without work in the
field and learn it little by little.

"Don't even think of going into studio work - go for low budget
DTV features. That's where the steady money is."

"Stay away from the DTV market - even with name stars the
bottom has dropped out."

I have heard both of these bits of advice in the last three days. I
wonder who is right?
 
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CDCosta
Many thanks for the offer! Let me mull this over and get back to you

directorik
Your response is thoughtful and much appreciated. One enormous advantage I have over most people is that I am not doing this to make money. Indeed, I suspect that it is like the old joke "Q. How do you make a small fortune in the stockmarket? A. Start with a large fortune". I am doing it because it is always something I have wanted to do and I suspect it will be more satisfying than buying a yacht and maybe slightly cheaper.

I have done a number of things over the year which a more prudent man might not have done - like leaving that well paid job, like moving to live in the USA and then coming back. Like backing numerous ventures run by idiots. Driving cars too fast into trees. I could continue. The commonest complaint people make on their death-bed is that they wished they had had more fun - nobody says they wish they had spent more time in the office.

I still hope to find the magic pill though. I just know that in a few years time I will look back at my pathetic attempts at film making and think "if only somebody had told me XXXXXX". It is a pity that you are in the USA but they have invented airplanes so maybe we will get to meet in due course.

So, I will start with something very simple and see if that works and then build on that. And read books and go on a short course.

Thank you everybody for their time and hopefully this thread may inspire other people - there are literally millions of people who are semi-retired who could easily start making films rather than playing golf or arguing with the wife.

I cannot resist one last story. A few years ago I got a circular advertising a film course in London that claimed to have started Quentin Tarantino's career (before that he used to work in a video store). In the course of the leaflet they referred to him as Quentin Taran Tea Time. That got me £10 from Private Eye so maybe that is an omen. Of what I am not quite sure.
.
 
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wavering said:
I still hope to find the magic pill though. I just know that in a few years time I will look back at my pathetic attempts at film making and think "if only somebody had told me XXXXXX". It is a pity that you are in the USA but they have invented airplanes so maybe we will get to meet in due course.
Click to expand...
Every project I work on, every movie or play I direct I meet someone
who give me that "if only somebody had told me XXXXXX" moment.
It doesn't happen once - it happens all the time. I hope you find the
one you're looking for.

There are two I know for sure are accurate:
"Never invest your own money."
and
"Nobody knows anything."

Do I get £500 for two?
 
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directorik said:
There are two I know for sure are accurate:
"Never invest your own money."
and
"Nobody knows anything."
Do I get £500 for two?
Click to expand...

Not sure that is worth £500 as the second saying "Nobody knows anything in Hollywood" , to give the full version, is pretty well known.

The first one "Never invest your own money" I will have to break straight away. But my offer of dinner to you at the Ritz in London (far superior to the Ivy) still stands because you have taken a lot of effort to help me and I know how long it can take to give detailed responses - and you clearly know what you are talking about. Let me know if you come over to the UK

Actually, the more I think about this, the more it looks like organising a wedding or any other event. You need reliable skilled people, reliable good equipment, a venue or several and a vision of what you are trying to achieve. To quote Yogi Berra, "if you don't know where you are going you will end up someplace else"

So, what am I trying to achieve? How about this as a Mission Statement:

"To have a lot of fun and satisfaction from making a short film which will stun anybody who sees it and will motivate a major studio to buy the idea for a lot of money and then make a version which totally misses the point"
.
 
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After my rant about films where the hero is a writer, I have just seen yet another, 2012.

So, in an attempt to level things up a bit here is my proposed script:

The hero is a white English businessman who owns a huge supermarket chain. He provides high quality goods and services in the face of ruthless competition and Government interference. In the course of his work (think milk cartons) he discovers a vast conspiracy - it seems that thousands of American children are missing and he discovers that they have all been kidnapped by Hollywood writers who torture them to death before eating them.

Of course, the writers are not all bad - they cook the children on organic charcoal and eat them using recycled knives and forks. In due course, all the writers are sent into outer space on a giant rocket and replaced by mindless cliche generating robots ... and nobody notices

So, what do think guys? Will it fly?

PS In case you think this is an exaggeration, go and see 2012
 
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