What's the best you can get for $2000?

T

tojo

Hey folks,

I realize these kind of questions get asked all the time, and some of you are probably tired of replying over and over again, but since I'm a newbie, I'll go ahead and ask anyway.

I'm a first-semester film student and currently looking to get some equipment for my school assignments, but also for local festivals and showcases.

I might have a budget of around $2000 by the end of the month, so I was wondering, what's the best deal I can get with this money? That would be including sound obviously, which as we all know, is as important as photography, if not more. For audio, I was thinking the Rode VideoMic Pro, but I'm in a haze when it comes to cameras.

Obviously, I want to get a camera which for the price offers the most filmic look. I've a Nikkor 50-200mm lens... do you think I should go ahead and get the Nikon D7000... or would you guys recommend a video camera rather than a DSLR?

For $2000, what kit could be assembled to produce at least decent sound and image?

Thanks a lot; hope to get some insight from you!!!
 
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A solid micro-budget sound package is going to set you back in the neighborhood of $1,000. That's a recorder, mic, shock-mount, boom-pole, wind protection, cables and cases. You can go very cheap and end up with poor sound, as most do not put in the time and effort needed to make really cheap gear sound acceptable. In fact, most don't put in the time and effort to make micro-budget gear sound good.
 
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So now we have $1,000 for a camera.

The Nikon D7000 will run $1,300 from a reliable seller.
No accessories.

You can look at the JVC GZ-GX1, the Panasonic HDC-HS900
and the Sony HDR-CX560V. All will stay in your price range.

I'll let the DSLR experts offer their suggestions.
 
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Thanks guys. Watched some more vids and Panasonic GH2 seems to offer the most film-like images (would you agree, or is ND7000 a better sub-2000?) It costs $1320/comes with a 14-140 lens on BestBuy... however, I couldn't find much information regarding its sound design?

Alcove, can you give me a breakdown of sound equipment I could purchase for $700 to go with this camera (with brands, if possible)
 
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Tascam DR-100 - $270
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

Battery Pack x 2 - $80
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/826148-REG/Tascam_BP_6AA_BP_6AA_External_Battery_Pack.html

Audio Technica AT875 Kit - $600
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

Pro Co 30' XLR to XLR - $40
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/128659-REG/Pro_Co_Sound_AQ_30_AmeriAquad_XLR_Male_to.html

Sony MDR-7506 - $100
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

This comes to $1,090.

This is what I mean when I said that a solid bare bones micro-budget sound package will set you back $1,000.

You can substitute the DR-40 for the DR-100 and sacrifice some conveniences and some quality - and save a whopping $70.

You can not buy the battery packs and go through a sleeve of batteries every day you shoot.

You can not buy the battery packs and substitute the AT897 or NTG-2 (which supply their own phantom power) for the AT875 and deal with lower volume rates.

Every time you try to save money you are going to make a sacrifice in convenience, functionality and quality.

On top of all this you'll need to find someone to operate all this gear competently.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Tascam DR-100 - $270
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

Battery Pack x 2 - $80
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/826148-REG/Tascam_BP_6AA_BP_6AA_External_Battery_Pack.html

Audio Technica AT875 Kit - $600
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/551607-REG/Audio_Technica_AT_875_Shotgun_Microphone.html

Pro Co 30' XLR to XLR - $40
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/128659-REG/Pro_Co_Sound_AQ_30_AmeriAquad_XLR_Male_to.html

Sony MDR-7506 - $100
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/49510-REG/Sony_MDR_7506_MDR_7506_Headphone.html

This comes to $1,090.

This is what I mean when I said that a solid bare bones micro-budget sound package will set you back $1,000.

You can substitute the DR-40 for the DR-100 and sacrifice some conveniences and some quality - and save a whopping $70.

You can not buy the battery packs and go through a sleeve of batteries every day you shoot.

You can not buy the battery packs and substitute the AT897 or NTG-2 (which supply their own phantom power) for the AT875 and deal with lower volume rates.

Every time you try to save money you are going to make a sacrifice in convenience, functionality and quality.

On top of all this you'll need to find someone to operate all this gear competently.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm willing to compromise on video quality to ensure solid sound... but while on that, would this type of gear be compatible/usable with most types of camcorders/DSLRs?
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_H2_Handy_Recorder#Comparison_with_Zoom_H4_recorder
Once you start going "off camera" for audio you might as well do it right, which to begin with means XLR jacks to cut down on line (big fat radio antenna) interference.
No XLR jacks on H2.

http://www.samsontech.com/zoom/products/handheld-audio-recorders/
Just resign yourself to spending as much on your entry level audio set up as you already have on your video. Just spring the extra hundred and change now for the H4n.
http://www.samsontech.com/zoom/products/handheld-audio-recorders/h4n/

Or better yet, the Tascam DR 100
http://tascam.com/applications/recording/handheld_recorder/
http://tascam.com/product/dr-100/specifications/

At least that's the word around the waterhole for entry level DVD quality off camera audio.

For youtube quality you can likely stick to what's on your camera or use the H2 for off camera.

But you're oh sooooo close to having something considerably better that will last a decade = €10 per year hassle savings.
 
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tojo said:
would this type of gear be compatible/usable with most types of camcorders/DSLRs?
Click to expand...

It is completely separate, so "compatibility" is not an issue. On-set make sure that you slate every single take, and keep detailed audio and video logs. In post you just need to insure that everything comes into your editing system at the same frame rates.

(BTW, a separate audio system was the standard when film sound was introduced in the late 1920's, and is still used with film today.)





@ Feutus - I don't like the build, I don't care for the menu system, it's noisy, and it's Hi-Z.
 
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How hard is it to maneuver competently with this sound kit? I will be working with other newbies, so I think it's safe to assume they won't be very experienced... This is a broad question, but what are the fundamentals of recording film audio?

Does shooting indoors help make the process a little easier?
 
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rayw said:
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=36403
And with the difference between that budget and yours, I'd get the Panasonic GH2.
http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh2/index.html
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity: Panasonic GH2 or Canon 7D for the best cinematic look? Of course, it largely depends on the person behind the camera, but from what I researched the GH2 videos had a softer, less animated look... but then 7D is more expensive, so I'm assuming it can achieve similar results?
 
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GH2 does not have the overheating issue that the Canon or other DSLR products have.

Cinematic... eh... I don't have an opinion.

BY FAR - the greatest hurdle to overcome at this level is simple story CRAFTING followed by story TELLING.
After those, it's poor audio that gets most DQed & kicked out of the festival circuit.

No one ever b!tched about a film being a darn good story but just wasn't "cinematic" enough.
Conversely, EVERYONE complains about boring, cliché, plot holed stories - with d@mn good cinematography.

Don't worry about one or the other DSLR being "more" cinematic than the other.
 
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rayw said:
GH2 does not have the overheating issue that the Canon or other DSLR products have.

Cinematic... eh... I don't have an opinion.

BY FAR - the greatest hurdle to overcome at this level is simple story CRAFTING followed by story TELLING.
After those, it's poor audio that gets most DQed & kicked out of the festival circuit.

No one ever b!tched about a film being a darn good story but just wasn't "cinematic" enough.
Conversely, EVERYONE complains about boring, cliché, plot holed stories - with d@mn good cinematography.

Don't worry about one or the other DSLR being "more" cinematic than the other.
Click to expand...

That is very true and an absolute priority, but it doesn't hurt trying to get it right in the technical department too.
 
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So a list of bad things for the Zoom h2 is this:
-Its Hi-Z (good mid and Hi, but les Bass)
-Smal jack inputs wil need a coverter for XLR jacks
-The plastich body of the Zoom will catch lots of interference, from just holding it in joure hands.
Hmmmm.......looks like problem 2 and 3 are solvable......So how bad is it that its Hi-Z? I dont know if thats a real bad thing.

Also.....how is it for recording a DJ set from a DJ mixer? I want to do some recordings on partys.
 
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Hi-Z has nothing to do withy frequency range, it has to do with impedance.

Electrical impedance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electrical impedance, or simply impedance, is the measure of the opposition that an electrical circuit presents to the passage of a current when a voltage is applied. In quantitative terms, it is the complex ratio of the voltage to the current in an alternating current (AC) circuit. Impedance extends the concept of resistance to AC circuits, and possesses both magnitude and phase, unlike resistance which has only magnitude. When a circuit is driven with direct current (DC), there is no distinction between impedance and resistance; the latter can be thought of as impedance with zero phase angle.

When applied to audio products High Impedance (Hi-Z) units are not shielded, making them very prone to RF (Radio Frequency) and other forms of interference, electrical interference being the other major culprit. Cable runs of over ten (10) feet can introduce signal degradation due to resistance. Low Impedance (Low-Z) units are shielded and can tolerate very long cable runs (over 100 feet) without any noticeable signal degradation. Low-Z are still prone to RF, electrical and other types of interference, but to a much lesser degree.
 
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tojo said:
How hard is it to maneuver competently with this sound kit?
Click to expand...

Not at all. This is what a typical professional PSM/Boom-op wears all day long:

l.jpg


tojo said:
I will be working with other newbies, so I think it's safe to assume they won't be very experienced... This is a broad question, but what are the fundamentals of recording film audio?

Does shooting indoors help make the process a little easier?
Click to expand...

Waaaaaayyyyyyyy to much for a post!!!!!

Start with my blog:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog


Then check out the following articles:

http://www.thompsound.com/old-site/Articles/QSFT/zen_boom.pdf

http://www.colinhartonline.com/?p=336

http://www.filmsound.org/QA/productionmixer.htm


Here's a site for production sound professionals:

http://jwsoundgroup.net/


And spend a few days on filmsound.org.


That will get you started.
 
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