What are film programs like at a community college?

I've made the firm decision I don't want to go to film school. But, I was wondering this - what are film programs like at community colleges and junior colleges? Do they have decent editing software? (I'm aware they don't have state of the art equipment; not by a long shot!)

More importantly, I know that when you go to a prestigious film school like USC or UCLA, you meet a lot of aspiring filmmakers very serious about their craft. However, how serious would you say the students taking a film course at a community college would be? I took a film class this year in High School, and all of my group members couldn't be lazier. They had a mild, mild interest in film, but overall, didn't want to lift a finger to do anything, and certainly didn't give a damn about learning the craft of filmmaking. I'm worried that if I shelled out a few thousand bucks to attend a film program at a community college, the experience would be similar.

I would NOT attend community college for filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for the purpose of meeting potential crew members. That's literally it. I don't care about equipment (though I'm still very curious about what type of film equipment community colleges carry). I guess I'm trying to ask if going to community college for filmmaking would be worth it in my situation. I'm talking about community colleges in general, as I don't want to travel far to attend one community college with a great film program that just happens to be the exception among community colleges.

Thanks!
 
I would NOT attend community college for filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for the purpose of meeting potential crew members. That's literally it.

Potential crew members to hire? To work alongside with?

As this is literally the only reason you're considering community college for film, I'd suggest saving your money. Terrible idea.
 
Potential crew members to hire? To work alongside with?

As this is literally the only reason you're considering community college for film, I'd suggest saving your money. Terrible idea.

Thats correct - the same type of dedicated "crew" members you'd find at any other film school.

If it isn't worth it (as in, if the people in the film program aren't even remotely serious about actual filmmaking), I won't consider it.
 
All they had at the community college I went to were a couple of film studies classes.. we watched films and talked about them/wrote papers about them. Not terribly interesting or worth the tuition fees. :)
 
All they had at the community college I went to were a couple of film studies classes.. we watched films and talked about them/wrote papers about them. Not terribly interesting or worth the tuition fees. :)

So you're saying it's uncommon for community colleges to offer actual film production courses?

That's a shame :( I definitely don't want to spend any money learning theory
 
There are tens of thousands of people like you who want to be filmmakers, end every one of them thinks that they are the next ____________ (fill in the blank - Ford, Tarrantino, Eastwood, Lynch, whatever). What makes you so special that others will want to expend their talent, time and effort to help you without compensation? Where are your festival wins or your major credits?

The first question is: how much actual, hands-on filmmaking experience do you actually have? My advice - as always - is to get out there and do the grunt work for a while before you dive into your own projects as a director. Be a PA, a go'fer or any other job you can get on any film set you can find. Do it A LOT!!! This will be your film school. You'll see fledgling directors make dozens of mistakes. You'll see talented up-and-comers creatively problem solving. You'll see lots of bad scripts being shot, and the occasional good script, and maybe even something exceptional once or twice. You'll learn by doing and observing - both good and bad lessons in practical low/no/mini/micro budget filmmaking. You'll also build your network of people who may work on your projects in the future.
 
I feel like we already had this conversation not that long ago.

In my experience having taught quite a few production classes at a community college, students around your age (i.e. recent high school graduates) didn't tend to be particularly serious about it. Older students were a lot more interested, focused, and goal driven - but they may or may not be of much use to you as far as crew goes, because they're 'grown up' with lives and careers and may not have time for, or interest in, making films with you. You may feel like you've really got a handle on things, but I can guarantee that to them you will likely seem very young, naive, and inexperienced. You can overcome some of that with enthusiasm and work ethic, but it may be a challenge nonetheless.

Also worth noting is that the courses I taught were under the multimedia department, not the film department - so don't restrict yourself to just programs called 'film'. The courses you are looking for may be categorized under film, video, broadcast, television, digital media, digital arts, multimedia, etc. Unfortunately CA's community colleges have been hit pretty hard by the state budget situation, so you may find that a lot of classes listed in the catalog aren't actively scheduled, especially if they aren't a requirement for a degree or certificate program - so you'll need to check not only that they list the courses, but that they are actively being scheduled over the next couple of semesters.

I'm talking about community colleges in general

It's very hard to generalize about community colleges - the resources available can vary dramatically even between schools in the same area. You need to do some research on your own - start with the schools closest to you, look up their course offerings online. If you see that they have production courses that might meet your needs you can try reaching out via email to some of the instructors with questions. Better yet, go visit the school and ask to sit in on a couple classes - it won't cost you anything other than time and will give you a much better feel for the course and students. Or sign up for a single night course - it'll probably cost you about $150 with all the fees, but you'll really know whether it's worth continuing after that.

I don't want to travel far to attend one community college with a great film program that just happens to be the exception among community colleges.

I gotta say I find this attitude puzzling. There is one community college that meets your needs - possibly the only one, but in any case most likely the best, and it's in your region - but you're not willing to go out of your way to attend it. It kind of makes me question your commitment to the whole thing. If this is what you're truly passionate about doing, you'll do what you need to to make it happen.

all of my group members couldn't be lazier. They had a mild, mild interest in film, but overall, didn't want to lift a finger to do anything, and certainly didn't give a damn about learning the craft of filmmaking

I would NOT attend community college for filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for the purpose of meeting potential crew members. That's literally it. I don't care about equipment

I definitely don't want to spend any money learning theory

I guess I'm just failing to see the difference here between you and them with these statements. You make it sound like you don't really give a damn about learning the craft of filmmaking either. And you don't want to travel very far for the resources that could help you, nor spend much money on them. It sounds like you have a mild interest in film, but are looking for the easiest way to pursue it.

So... what is it you're willing to do that they weren't?
 
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I see a flaw in that logic. I suspect that every person shelling out a few thousand bucks to attend a film program at a community college wants to be the director. They aren't shelling out a few thousand bucks to work as crew on someone else's film.

I'm sorry: I was only curious. If you're saying that every single person who attends film school or enters a film program wants to be the director, that's fine by me. I was only wondering if community college was a good place to meet people interested in specific areas of film - audio, cinematography, editing, etc. - excuse me for assuming people had an array of interests. I was unaware that all film crew members aspire to be directors

There are tens of thousands of people like you who want to be filmmakers, end every one of them thinks that they are the next ____________ (fill in the blank - Ford, Tarrantino, Eastwood, Lynch, whatever). What makes you so special that others will want to expend their talent, time and effort to help you without compensation? Where are your festival wins or your major credits?

I never said I was special? I feel like you're blowing my question out of proportion and pulling the "what makes you so special" card when I haven't said anything to provoke that. I was just wondering whether or not a film program at a community college could temporarily supplement a film program at an actual film school. I was only wondering if it was a good place to make friends who could help you with some films. Never once did I say anything of the grandiose nature "I'm the next (X), now tell me how to get people to work for free because I'm the boss and I deserve it"

I guess I'm just failing to see the difference here between you and them with these statements. You make it sound like you don't really give a damn about learning the craft of filmmaking either. And you don't want to travel very far for the resources that could help you, nor spend much money on them. It sounds like you have a mild interest in film, but are looking for the easiest way to pursue it.

My mom isn't in the best health. I have a sister. And I don't have the money to move away and live on my own JUST for a community college. The reason I'm considering a community college in the first place is because I want to keep a tight budget. Moving away and paying for a living space seems to defeat the purpose.

My interest is just as strong as anyone else on this forum. The simple fact that I don't have any "festival wins or major credits" (as Alcove Audio put it) means nothing. I'm a junior in high school. I'm curious how many other individuals on this forum had major credits or festival wins at that age? I mean, give me a break. Everyone has to start somewhere. Every director has to have that first experience with pulling together a crew, whether that crew is made up of proffesionals or friends and classmates.

I'm sorry for the backlash. But I really don't need people to tell me how I'm spoiled, lazy, unmotivated, and don't give a damn about filmmaking when they don't even know me.
 
Liv, take a deep breath.

You know this community of people – we are honest and that often
comes off as harsh to some people. You misread what I said. Your
anger at my answer does not mean you should be sarcastic. I have
always offered my honest answers to your questions in the past. I
did the same this time.

No one is accusing you of anything, no one is upset with you asking,
no one is calling you names. You're first post came of as elitist without
any detail of your true question. People react to what you write - not
what you don't write.

You may think you're being subtle, but by telling me to calm down and "take a deep breath", I can tell you're trying to patronize me.

I appreciate that your comment was meant in a helpful tone - out of the others, it was the most neutral. I didn't mean to come off as sarcastic, and I'm sorry you saw it that way. Never once did I intend to offend you. I appreciate all the knowledge you have.

However, my original question did not come off as elitist. If anything, I found some of the other responses to come off as quite arrogant. Never once did I ask anything that would provoke responses such as: "what makes you so special", and "you seem to not give a damn about the craft of filmmaking either". I found those responses offensive, plain and simple.

I understand this is a community. But I find it hard to follow good-natured, helpful advice (no matter how good the intention may be) when that advice feels somewhat condescending.

I'll check out local community colleges near me (because I'm limited by location, I wasn't looking for recommendations per-se). I was just curious if anyone on this forum has taken a film production course at a community college, and if so, whether or not they felt like they were able to meet some equally motivated people. I wanted to know if film programs at community colleges are "legitimate" and worth the money. I'm sorry if that didn't come off too clearly in my original post.
 
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What's the latest since winter?

Not much. :) a little slow, to be honest. I've had to put my writing on hold these past two months or so for school - I actually have my finals this upcoming week, and I'm taking the SAT tomorrow! Stressful times. I've been meaning to catch up on Indie Talk though.
 
We all took your original post at face value - that you wanted to go to a community college so you could find others to crew your films. It's not our fault that you did not give us complete information.

That is part of the problem of internet posts versus face-to-face conversation, we can only respond to what you write. And that is an issue that I have with those who want to enter the entertainment industry - it's all about communication and so many have deficient communications skills. When I asked "What makes you so special that others will want to expend their talent, time and effort to help you without compensation? Where are your festival wins or your major credits?" I was pointing out that - since the premise was "you wanted to go to a community college so you could find others to crew your films" - this is how others will see you.

As 'rik said we are direct, honest and, occasionally, brutally harsh. IndieTalk is a mix of newbs, professionals, pathetic mewling wannabees and hardworking ambitious up-and-comers. It's also one of the best indie film sites on the 'net.

The entertainment biz can be very harsh and brutal, so you had better develop a thick skin.
 
We all took your original post at face value - that you wanted to go to a community college so you could find others to crew your films. It's not our fault that you did not give us complete information.

The entertainment biz can be very harsh and brutal, so you had better develop a thick skin.

Thank you for clearing up your comment. As for the thick skin? Don't worry. I won't be losing any sleep over this.

I know that all indie filmmakers, from the first timers to the well-seasoned proffesionals, need to find a crew at some point in order to make a film: that crew can be a skeleton crew consisting of four newcomers, or a crew of twenty established people that you're paying very well. Either way, I don't necessarily think it's an issue of "what makes you so special?" - particularly if you have no festival wins or credits - or else no one would start making films. I'm sure you've either worked on a crew before or hired a crew, of varying sizes and skill levels. I don't think that makes you demanding or entitled at all. It's just the way things are done.

Eventually, I would like to hire a crew for an independent film of mine. I don't know when that would be. I don't know if I would meet anyone of that sort in a community college. And I don't know how unprofessional that crew will be when the time comes. But either way, it's still a crew. I don't think I'm wrong for looking ahead like that.
 
I'm no one to give advice. But. Based on what you've posted, it seems to me like Alcove's advice for making contacts and networking is solid. It sounds like money is a problem for you? Why spend the money? You might be better off getting involved in your local filmmaking scene. But at worst, I doubt such a class or course would hurt, either. On the other hand, if someone like IDOM is teaching it, I'm sure you'll learn loads of stuff. =)

Or, just make friends with people who want to make films too.

Learn from sites like I.T. Learn from others like Film Riot, etc. No doubt you already are.

I doubt Rik was patronizing you. It generally is good advice for all of us to stay calm and to take a deep breath.

I have no idea if this is anywhere near you. I just did a quick google to see if it brought up any filmmaking groups in SC. What's this? Maybe not a filmmaking group per se. But it might be a good place to start for in-real-life/face-to-face networking with real, local people who might be interested in doing more than just watching films.

And generally speaking, and this has come up on these boards before, if you have the opportunity to go to college, I think most of us would tell you to definately go, for filmmaking, or not. An education is priceless --whatever your career or job(s) turns out to be.
 
I'm sorry for the backlash. But I really don't need people to tell me how I'm spoiled, lazy, unmotivated, and don't give a damn about filmmaking when they don't even know me.

You're right - we don't know you. All we have to go by is the words you write here. When you dismiss out of hand the possibility that there could be anything worth learning at a community college, and that the only possible value of attending would be in finding crew, it comes off as either arrogant, naive, or both. Given your age I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and lean towards it being naiveté rather than arrogance - maybe that seems condescending, but you may want to consider the possibility that it's also truth based on the perspective of having already lived through the kinds of scenarios you're only imagining at this point...

My mom isn't in the best health. I have a sister. And I don't have the money to move away and live on my own JUST for a community college. The reason I'm considering a community college in the first place is because I want to keep a tight budget. Moving away and paying for a living space seems to defeat the purpose.

My mom wasn't in good health either (and has since passed due to her illness). I also have a sister, half brother, and dad that I had to leave to pursue my passion. I lived at home and attended a local community college full time while working overtime (at wal-mart) - and learned quite a bit while there despite the fact that it had no film program, by taking advantage of their photography and theater classes. When I'd exhausted the resources there I literally talked my way into a film program at a university despite my application having been rejected three times - and when I got there I found I was way ahead of most of my fellow students in terms of things like composition, lighting, exposure, etc because of the photography classes I'd taken at the community college. I got a (completely non-film related) job at the university which gave me free on-campus housing & food so I could afford to live away from home, and I got a second job on the campus AV crew so I could earn money while getting access to and experience with equipment. I also (encouraged by an instructor at the CC) took out a ridiculous loan in order to get myself a computer, because the university's program was still primarily film-based, and taught myself non-linear editing, compositing, and 3D animation while finishing my degree.

The simple fact that I don't have any "festival wins or major credits" (as Alcove Audio put it) means nothing. I'm a junior in high school. I'm curious how many other individuals on this forum had major credits or festival wins at that age?

You're right - I didn't have any festival wins or major credits by the end of my junior year. I did have two 30+ minute shorts completed by then though - both absolutely terrible, of course. Both were made with my fellow HS students, most of whom had no particular interest in filmmaking. The first was a project assignment for a class - but the second was completely my own project. You know how I got my fellow students to work on it? I wrote the full script, then approached my english teacher, gave him the script and talked him into letting me produce the film instead of doing the final paper for the class. I also convinced him to give the other people involved credit for it as well, so when I went to them and said "Hey - would you rather work on my film or write an english paper?" they became quite enthusiastic about the project, despite their lack of interest in filmmaking. In my senior year of high school I then went on to produce numerous (terrible) shorts, as well as recording three (terrible) full-length albums with my band, and shoot/develop/print hundreds of still photos.

All of those projects were done without the advantage of easy access to the inexpensive and powerful digital tools that are available now. I would have given my left arm for something like an iMac, or even an iPhone. Back then we had to walk to school, barefoot, in three feet of snow, uphill both ways, etc... you damn kids have it so easy today. Get off my lawn!

But I really don't need people to tell me how I'm spoiled, lazy, unmotivated, and don't give a damn about filmmaking when they don't even know me.

None of what I've written is to say that you're spoiled, lazy, etc. It's to try and explain based on my own experience that you have the opportunity, ability, and resources to pursue your interest in film if you really want to - you just have to take the initiative to make the things you want happen. Everything you need is out there, but it's not always obvious or neatly presented as what you're looking for, you have to be creative and aggressive about turning anything you can get your hands on to your advantage in your pursuit.

And there's one last lesson I've got based on my experience - you might do all of this and find out that what you thought you wanted all along isn't what you really want anymore. After all of that work my career at this point isn't in any way related to filmmaking or the film/entertainment industry. That was conscious choice I made after spending a summer interning in hollywood and realizing that just because I loved making films didn't mean I wanted a career in the industry. But I don't regret a single thing I did in pursuit of that passion - it all was valuable in the end. The things I do now didn't even exist back then, but a single class I took at the community college probably changed the trajectory of my entire career - it just wasn't possible for me to see that, or understand the importance it would have, until over a decade later. And in the meantime the world changed, so that it's been possible for me to pursue my interest in filmmaking without having to make a career out of it.

So there's really two lessons there. One, you've got to be open to the possibilities of things (like community college classes) that may not seem to be entirely relevant to your immediate interests - you never know when something new or unexpected will turn out to be something important to you in the long run. And two - even if you aren't absolutely sure that film, or whatever you choose to pursue, is what you want to do, you shouldn't spend too much time pondering whether you should pursue it or not. If you think it might be what you want to do now, then run with it and start doing it right now, whatever it takes - because the experiences and effort you put into it will always be valuable. The only time wasted is the time you spend sitting around not actually doing anything.
 
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