Ugh! Fundraising blues.

[Cracker Funk]

I thought I had a plan (combination of traditional investor, self-funding and crowd-funding) that would make my bare-minimum budget of $50K happen for the next feature. Nope, not happening. Technically, the investor is in, but he's in for an amount that basically is his way of giving me moral support. It's a nice gesture, but I'm not going to reach the $50K goal, not for this project.

I just bought Nick's ebook on the investment side of things, and that may pay dividends, but it should be noted that each of Nick's successful features is a horror movie. The project I had planned is definitely not horror. In fact it is a Road Trip movie, with a supernatural twist. A very marketable story, I think, but not in a genre with a proven track-record, and I'm a filmmaker without a proven track-record, so I don't think I can use this project to attract the kind of investors that Nick talks about.

So, now that I'm back to square-1, I'm asking myself if I should dig in my heels and stick with the planned project, and just SERIOUSLY modify the budget, or if I should branch-out and start making horror? I do enjoy a good horror movie, but I wouldn't say that I'm a fan of the genre.

Then again, J.J. Abrams wasn't a fan of the "Star Trek" franchise, but he made one hell of an awesome "Star Trek" movie, in my opinion. So, maybe as an outsider to the genre, I could find my own way to put a personal spin on things?

Christian movies are profitable. Maybe I should make a Christian Horror movie!

 

[NickSoares]

Cracker,

I suggest following what you want to do.

If you want to make some quick cash to fund your project you are working on now, then just do the 4K secret. I saw your trailer, you got it, you got what it takes. Just do that an I can already have a buyer for you for 10-20K for sure, now spend a week and do three, you got your budget. Be sure not to get down, and you got this.

You got what it takes

Nick Soares

PS. Because I followed the money making rules, I am about to do my DREAM film, which is a large scale drama. The difference is- It wont take you 9 years

 

[Kholi]

A very marketable story, I think, but not in a genre with a proven track-record, and I'm a filmmaker without a proven track-record, so I don't think I can use this project to attract the kind of investors that Nick talks about.

Don't take this the wrong way: are you sure it's marketable? Genre without a proven track-record sounds like it's not marketable.

or if I should branch-out and start making horror?

Probably not. You'll just be joining the ranks of every third filmmaker who's trying to make a horror because it's cheap "and you can get away with more", most of which think they can bring something new to the table but probably will not.

The likely hood is that you'll give it away for less than you made it for and never see a dime afterward unless you self distro, and then you're gonna live with that overgrown child for two years or more trying to get the money back.

So, now that I'm back to square-1, I'm asking myself if I should dig in my heels and stick with the planned project, and just SERIOUSLY modify the budget

Yes. Modify the budget, get the movie you want to make done. If someone's offering you money, try to eck out a few more thousand from them after you show some kick ass scenes and show where you'll place it to make an overall better feature film.

Just my two cents, don't try to sell them on the possibility of more than you'll work as hard as you can to recover their money. Leave 'em with the most realistic expectations you can.

But make the movie you care about.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your thoughts, and I think I agree with them. I'm off to bed. Cheers!

 

[NickSoares]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your thoughts, and I think I agree with them. I'm off to bed. Cheers!

Your welcome! Follow your dream and what you want to do.

You have already purchased my eBook, most people selling ebook just disappear, but I will be here every step of the way to help you get your first 100K


- Nick Soares

 

[Jack Lynt]

I don't know, but aren't comedies also a low budget alternative? You and Trueindie have both understandably considered the idea of trying horror to get something marketable going. But, seems to me that the reason a lot of indie/kino/youtuber filmmakers often make comedies is, like horror, I would actually think even more so, that you can make them on a shoestring compared to other more production value demanding genres. Or am I way off on guessing that?

Isn't comedy more or less what you've been doing? My impression is that that might be nearer and dearer to you heart.

What is the box office or return record for low budget comedy? Not as good as horror? If so, damn.

Then how about comedy-horror?

Good luck!

 

[Kholi]

What is the box office or return record for low budget comedy? Not as good as horror? If so, damn.

Then how about comedy-horror?

Good luck!

Doesn't even exist (exaggerating, but close to the truth).

There aren't many people that care about no-name no-budget straight-up-comedy.

Comedy Horror is pretty close, Dale and Tucker didn't do all that hot and at least that had a face in it.

 

[rayw]

CF -

Goto post #6: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=37825
"Only certain genres sell well internationally. What are these “best bet” genres?
1) Action – which are always a slam-dunk.
2) Thrillers – which often do well.
3) Sci-Fi – which are the hottest genre these days, since replacing the dying demand of horror films.
The reason why these genres perform so well is because audiences don’t have to know the language in which these films were made, in order to understand their basic story.

When it comes to comedies, romantic comedies, dramas, coming-of-age films, personal stories, family films, horror films and most documentaries – you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of enjoying healthy sales internationally.

In fact, there’s been so many horror films made lately, that they have saturated their own market to the point that they’re virtually worthless."

Now, this is from an article almost two years old and specifically referencing INTERNATIONAL distribution, however I think the underlaying principles are still valid.

In order to eventually properly fulfil the supernatural road trip project I'd shelve it while pursuing other "more commercially viable" projects.

As precedents, I believe Cameraon shelved AVATAR and Nolan shelved INCEPTION until they could execute them well.

Do you have a collection of other stories you could pursue with equally professional interest?

 

[NickSoares]

When it comes to comedies, romantic comedies, dramas, coming-of-age films, personal stories, family films, horror films and most documentaries – you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of enjoying healthy sales internationally.

I highlighted the genre that I could not disagree with this more. I was shock at how well a $9,000 horror film did internationally, flat out shocked.... That was my first feature film "Ghost Game" 9 years ago, and the following films that I got distributed world wide did even better, and they were very low-budget. I assure you guys that this comment is incorrect (about horror) If any of you watch my other horror "A Brush with Death" on Netflix you will see that it is a very low-budget horror that paid for my house, (I am saying this because I want you guys to know that there is still lots of money in the market, as my last horror im about to release has crushed the numbers of all my past horrors combined) Rayw, im not suggesting that you are saying this, as you seem to pull lots of info from websites, but I must warn those that are wanting to make money, to be careful who where you get your info.

This comment is to those that are wanting to make enough money in this industry to survive and move on to bigger and better projects.

If anyone has any questions with my experience is profiting films just let me know, and I will help

Nick Soares

 

[rayw]

Rayw, im not suggesting that you are saying this, as you seem to pull lots of info from websites, but I must warn those that are wanting to make money, to be careful who where you get your info.

Hi, Nick

Nah, you're right. I'm just pulling and regurgtating (semi-believable) info I find around the net. There's no way I can either validate any of the declarations others make or dispute your own sucesses.
I'm all ears.
Open minded, but not empty headed.

Actually I enjoy vetting material by dragging/parading it here just to let folks such as yourself beat it with sticks and facts.

FWIW, I'd've flagged horror myself. That seemed the most skeptical of the lot, but I've got no hard or anecdotal info to refute it, but am not in least bit surprised someone else, such as yourself, would flag it.

I think horror DONE WELL will always have a fresh crop of active consumers unique among all film consumers.
Just gotta keep those budgets down. Real down.

I appreciate your voice on this issue.

Ray

 

[Dreadylocks]

Stiff upper lip, dude! You'll get this. If it were me I'd slash the budget and just get it made. I haven't seen your script but I remember the concept and I think it's a good one.

Perhaps make a trailer for it and include all those parts with the hot nekkid ladies. That should help with the fundraising.

 

[Kholi]

I highlighted the genre that I could not disagree with this more. I was shock at how well a $9,000 horror film did internationally, flat out shocked.... That was my first feature film "Ghost Game" 9 years ago, and the following films that I got distributed world wide did even better, and they were very low-budget. I assure you guys that this comment is incorrect (about horror) If any of you watch my other horror "A Brush with Death" on Netflix you will see that it is a very low-budget horror that paid for my house, (I am saying this because I want you guys to know that there is still lots of money in the market, as my last horror im about to release has crushed the numbers of all my past horrors combined) Rayw, im not suggesting that you are saying this, as you seem to pull lots of info from websites, but I must warn those that are wanting to make money, to be careful who where you get your info.

This comment is to those that are wanting to make enough money in this industry to survive and move on to bigger and better projects.

If anyone has any questions with my experience is profiting films just let me know, and I will help

Nick Soares

While I'm not disagreeing exactly that Horror will always have a community, three years in this industry is like a decade passing... nine? In 2012 the distribution deals just aren't that strong. Not to the point where you should be spending more than a certain amount without attaching either a named producer or faces in the cast.

If you're talking about doing something for 10K, well, you're probably gonna make your money back one way or another. Spending above 20K is dangerous IMO.

 

[NickSoares]

While I'm not disagreeing exactly that Horror will always have a community, three years in this industry is like a decade passing... nine? In 2012 the distribution deals just aren't that strong. Not to the point where you should be spending more than a certain amount without attaching either a named producer or faces in the cast.

If you're talking about doing something for 10K, well, you're probably gonna make your money back one way or another. Spending above 20K is dangerous IMO.

You make some points, but they are off by just a bit, Your words: three years in this industry is like a decade passing... nine? My words: That was my first feature film "Ghost Game" 9 years ago, and the following films that I got distributed world wide did even better, and they were very low-budget

People are not doing well because they are making bad decisions and listening to the wrong people, people that are bitter about the industry, and that bugs me because im a HUGE indie person and want to see indie filmmakers make money and live off the profits and be able to talk about fun stuff like "Hey how much did you make in India? 50k!? Ppshhhh, I pulled 70K from that territory!" And if you are thinking you cant do that then you dont know the quality of films India pays for. (and thats just ONE territory)

I am just going over facts about Horror/thriller/

I should start a thread explaining more? Not sure, new to forums

 

[Cracker Funk]

So, I wanted to elaborate on a couple things, but weekends tend to not be so great for me and free-time. Anyway...

Kholi, Road Trip is a pretty established genre, and like any genre, if it's a solid story and connects with the audience, they will show up. When I said "genre without a proven track-record", I just meant in the low-budget indie filmmaker sense, it's probably not so great for attracting investors. If I'm able to make the movie that's in my head, I do think audiences will want to see it, but it's definitely not a "safe" bet, and therefore not so great for attracting investors (the way Horror seems to be).

You definitely make some great points, regarding low-budget comedies with no names, vs. low-budget horror with no names, and that is why I recognize that my desire to make this movie is more connected to my belief that I can turn this story into something fun that people will want to see, not so much on the mathematics of which genres tend to fare better than others. I have a feeling you'll get me on that, since you made a stoner-superhero movie, which looks brilliant (and I can't wait to see), but isn't exactly a proven commodity.

Also, I get what you're saying about me being just another one of the million filmmakers who makes horror because it's "easy", but I really feel like I literally could not join those ranks. I simply couldn't make straight-horror, even if I wanted to. Whatever I would make would be a weird mash-up, and whether that's a good or bad thing is yet to be seen (probably bad).

And yes, Richy, if I were to make Horror, you could expect there would be a substantial element of comedy.

Nick, I'm still getting a read on you (both literally and figuratively), but my initial impression is that you're being refreshingly honest. Needless to say, I like that. At this point, I'm not ruling anything out, for my next feature. My heart is connected to the supernatural Road Trip story, but I'm giving strong consideration to Found-Footage Horror, traditional Horror, and even Christian Film.

Ray, I especially appreciate your thoughts about filmmakers who have postponed pet-projects until they were able to do them right. Because, as I consider slashing the budget of this supernatural Road Trip, I'm considering slashing stuff that I think would really make the movie gel. A major slash in the budget would mean that we can't shoot those train-hopping scenes, the bus-scenes would probably get nixed, and I don't see how I could shoot the dog-hit-by-a-car-in-front-of-a-gas-station scene (and that one is CRUCIAL).

Ugh! Even while writing this response, my feelings go back and forth, between sticking to my guns and finding a way to shoot the movie, on a slashed budget, or do something more "commercially viable". Kinda like how Nick made a few Horror movies, to pave way for his soon-to-be-realized dream-project Drama.

Dready, thanks for the encouragement! To the best of my memory, you're the only IT'er who knows the story. I might've told one or two others. I really appreciate the well-thought responses in this thread, so if anyone is simply curious, I'd be happy to share the story with you, but it'd have to be through PM. Otherwise, I think Road Trip Movie with a supernatural twist is a pretty good descriptor.

 

[Kholi]

I have a feeling you'll get me on that, since you made a stoner-superhero movie, which looks brilliant (and I can't wait to see), but isn't exactly a proven commodity.

Well, I chose a project with a pretty clear sale: superheros and visual effects heavy. Something overtly ambitious and broad (international appeal). Even still, I don't know how it'll turn out as far as a GOOD deal goes, we've already got pretty solid sticking offers but not what I want.

We're kind at odds here, but I still think you should make the movie you want to make.

What I was basically saying, though, is that if it's not gilts and glam--or guts and gore, then any distro who's gonna pay you a decent amount to take it on for a two to three year contract (or whatever you'll get) really won't care.

If you aren't worried about that or money, then you can pretty much do whatever you want. I mean, well, anyone can do whatever they want, anyway. In hindsight, I wish I had not made a choice mostly based on return and opportunity, and done something a bit more important to my own society.

Gotta eat, I guess.

Alll that said, again, people should do exactly what they want to do and just hope for the best.

You make some points, but they are off by just a bit, Your words: three years in this industry is like a decade passing... nine? My words: That was my first feature film "Ghost Game" 9 years ago, and the following films that I got distributed world wide did even better, and they were very low-budget

True, you did say even better. I'm very interested in hearing your experiences from 2009~2010 up until now, so another thread would be awesome. I think a lot of people need the encouragement of some success stories.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Well, I made a big decision today, and since you all offered some great insights, I thought I'd share it with you. I've kind of decided to take a little bit of advice from Sinatra, and just do it my way (which is actually what a lot of you were kinda saying, too).

I really believe in the Supernatural Road Trip movie that was planned as my next feature. In order to properly tell that story, the budget can only be modified so much. I simply must make that movie, but at a reduced budget. Even the reduced budget will take some time to gather, so it will probably be upwards of one-and-a-half to two years before production begins on that one.

In the meanwhile, though, I simply can't just not be making movies. So the aforementioned "big" decision I made today is that the Supernatural Road Trip movie is now my 2nd-to-next feature. While working on scratching up the dough for that one, I'm going to make another ultra-low-budget feature. Even lower budget than my first one, actually. In fact, I plan to get the next one done for $2500, TOTAL.

I don't have a story yet. I've got a few ideas bouncing around in my head, but nothing nailed-down. I have a deadline, however. Production begins this September. Why? Because I said so! Also, it's going to be written for a female lead. Why? Because I said so!

 

[cameronchapman]

Good for you! I'm looking forward to whatever you have in store for us next! <— (I'm completely addicted to that emoticon...)

 

[NickSoares]

Well, I made a big decision today, and since you all offered some great insights, I thought I'd share it with you. I've kind of decided to take a little bit of advice from Sinatra, and just do it my way (which is actually what a lot of you were kinda saying, too).

I really believe in the Supernatural Road Trip movie that was planned as my next feature. In order to properly tell that story, the budget can only be modified so much. I simply must make that movie, but at a reduced budget. Even the reduced budget will take some time to gather, so it will probably be upwards of one-and-a-half to two years before production begins on that one.

In the meanwhile, though, I simply can't just not be making movies. So the aforementioned "big" decision I made today is that the Supernatural Road Trip movie is now my 2nd-to-next feature. While working on scratching up the dough for that one, I'm going to make another ultra-low-budget feature. Even lower budget than my first one, actually. In fact, I plan to get the next one done for $2500, TOTAL.

I don't have a story yet. I've got a few ideas bouncing around in my head, but nothing nailed-down. I have a deadline, however. Production begins this September. Why? Because I said so! Also, it's going to be written for a female lead. Why? Because I said so!

Sweet, if you need an investor, let me know.

 

[Flicker Pictures]

Is there any advantage to making the new feature a tie-in or precursor to the Supernatural Road Trip feature? To pave the way, set the stage for that film? Maybe something with found "supernatural" footage to keep the costs low?

No matter what, you'll get 'er done, Cracker! Annnnd... action!

 

[Cracker Funk]

Is there any advantage to making the new feature a tie-in or precursor to the Supernatural Road Trip feature? To pave the way, set the stage for that film? Maybe something with found "supernatural" footage to keep the costs low?

No matter what, you'll get 'er done, Cracker! Annnnd... action!

Hmm...

Very interesting idea. Perhaps it's possible to make it a spin-off, but in reverse. Not quite a prequel, but a pre-spin-off. That might work. I'll have to wrap my head around that.

Nick, thanks a bunch for mentioning that. I'll definitely send you a treatment for the one that actually requires a budget. Because it doesn't fit into the mold of the type of low-budget film that typically gets funding, realistically I think it'll mostly be a combination of self-funding and kickstarter. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, and if you're interested in backing it, even if just partially. Cheers.