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Thinking of how to light this scene logically.

H

harmonica44

It goes from the backyard of a house into the streets. Kind of a hide and seek from the killer sequence. Now the backyard will not logically have any of the lights turned on illuminating it at night, since no one is suppose to be outside and no lights are switched on.

So moonlight is the way to go. But then once we get onto the city street, lighting will be difficult legally, and also competently since the street lights drown out a lot of moonlight. But this is okay though, I want to use the natural streetlight that is there, and it will help give the look I want. But I am not sure how where the moonlight should end, and the streetlight begin logically. How to shoot it so it doesn't look obvious that the lighting is switching. Even if I cut a few seconds ahead to a different location I will be cutting from moonlight to streetlight, even though, only a few yards have passed in the cut. I am doing tests but not sure how to picture this one, or at least picture it in a way which I am certain audiences will find acceptable. Any suggestions? Thanks.
 
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It will get brighter, but that shouldn't be an issue. What will make it less jarring is white balancing so the very yellow streetlights aren't quite so yellow and more closely match whatever you are using for the moonlight. Maybe not match exactly, but not jarringly different.

This could actually be done in post during color correction.
 
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You're going to find this hard to match. I'd find a way of motivating other lights around, whether originating from inside/outside the house, neighbouring houses, or close-by street lamps that you can motivate as a side-ey light on your character.

If it's a continuation, you'd expect the moonlight to stay, along with the addition of the street lamp lighting. The moon and/or the light of the moon doesn't just suddenly disappear - my suggestion would be to go with all moonlight, or no moonlight and motivate a different light another way.
 
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We're not in the business of reality. Make it look right, not real, but right... for the story, for the information you're presenting to the audience... reality sucks -- that's why there's movies :)
 
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Sure, just so long as the lights from neighboring houses, don't look too bright for lighting the back yard of a house, with an unlit alleyway along side of it. It's suppose to be a scary scene, so I don't want too much light which can take away from that effect. I thought moonlight would enhance it, instead of more clearer house lights. Just so long as the creepiness is sold just as well, the reality I don't care about, as long as the viewer does not care. The best white balance for streetlight is tungsten I find, as well as gelled moonlight so far. Would it be okay if I still had a hint of moonlight, at the side of a character's face in the backyard, but then it's gone by the time we get to the street, or should it be no moonlight at all, if that's the case?
 
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get up on a ladder and gel the street lights, then frame them out. fill light can be used to get decent exposure that will bring you closer to the well lit areas. Suggest lights from windows (they don't actually have to be in those windows, you can just have practical lamps in those windows, but a worklight off camera, but outside with a gel to match the practical color making the side of your actor show the effect of that light.

You're still thinking inside the box... burn the box, it doesn't exist.
 
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Thanks but sometimes if I burn the box, it turns out I am not doing it right, and it won't pass, of course. But the inside of the house also is dark since it's a break in scene and there are no lights turned on. I will also need some moonlight shining in for that or a hint of light, without any lights turned on. So as long as I can go from moonlight shining in to the backyard, to the well lit street, all convincingly.

I am not looking to gel the streetlights, I want to keep that yellow light for this new project. Just wanted to know if I could mix some moonlight in the backyard scenes.
 
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Yep, and you can use color correction if necessary to get the blues to match afterward if they don't when you're shooting. Not ideal, but useable. The audience doesn't care if there is/is not the sun's light reflecting off the moon, they just need something to hold onto from shot to shot to make it be the same. Having a hint of blue on the shoulders, even while using the street lights as your main illumination, will make it real to them.

If you need moonlight coming through a window, put a light outside gelled blue and make it happen... or just do it from inside (soften the light with diffusion to make it not feel so "hot" -- although moonlight is a very hard light in reality, it doesn't have hotspots, so diffusing will feel more real than a light that's too close).
 
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Okay thanks. Since we are on the subject I've noticed how in some movies when they show fire, the fire is almost completely white, or perhaps even completely white. I was told that in the those movies, they used types of film stock, that got fire that color, but with digital how would I? Thanks.
 
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I couldn't find any movie examples, but movies where they are able to make the orange-ist light, look white if they wanted to. Well it seems that I cannot get the desired light colors I want. I want blue xenon lights, with red sodium, after looking at my tests, but cannot have both in one white balance. But I guess I have to pick between the two and perhaps color correct in post, if that works.
 
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Okay thanks. Well I don't have permission to gel the streetlights. But older movies, before the digital age, were able to get more than one white balance into the film. Like if you fast forward to 9:05 in this scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2gJbxf5OS8&feature=relmfu

There are two lights that are actually green so nevermind those. But there are also sodium lights, that are gold-ish, which is like the tungsten setting on my camera. But there are also white lights in background, that are like the flourescent setting in my camera. I cannot get these two colors of lights in the same shot, so how did they do it, on film before the digital age, unless film can make tungsten look tungsten and flourescent look like so back then.
 
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H44, why are you looking for ways to complicate your shot?? Just light your actor with 100w tungsten light, diffuse it, shoot a close up and you re done! Do the rest of "walking around" scene in available light.
 
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To H...44s original question. I side with what several have said about the rational or motivation for the lighting. Just boldly make a look that you can achieve and don't worry so much about literal continuity of rational light.

If there are buildings then light can be coming from anywhere. Have as much or as little as you want or can afford. There can even be light from the empty building if you want, or above it's EXT doorway. There is no problem with the rational of that. The simplest and probably most interesting looking thing to do is to plan your action to pass through pools of light.

If you want moonlight, then what is the widest shot you need and can you afford to light it?

Cheers,
Gregg
 
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Well aside from lighting a close up of the actor, he has to go out the window of the house, out of the backyard, down the alley, then he is in the very well lit street. I could skip ahead just so long as the skip is not too jarring of a time lapse.

As for white balances, all the good ones for xenon lights, aren't as good for sodium, and vice versa. Tough picking a balance that is good for both, and will either have to compromise, or pick one that is the best for one, then color correct the other in post, as long as that's do-able.
 
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harmonica44 said:
As for white balances, all the good ones for xenon lights, aren't as good for sodium, and vice versa. Tough picking a balance that is good for both, and will either have to compromise, or pick one that is the best for one, then color correct the other in post, as long as that's do-able.
Click to expand...

What you are trying to do may be impossible - low-pressure sodium lamps are effectively monochromatic sources (see graph).

SOX.png


You cannot make light from a source like this appear white, whether with gels, filters or white balance - the wavelengths simply aren't there.

That's not to say you can't create an appealing look using lights like this, just that you should be aware of their limitations. Have a look at Munich (shot by Janusz Kamiński) and Green Zone (shot by Barry Ackroyd BSC) for some nice examples of urban night exteriors with artificial lighting that you could perhaps try to imitate.

Finally, I really would avoid relying on post-production to correct the colour temperature of individual sources. Trying to match mixed sources with colour correction is simply not possible in many circumstances; would it not make more sense to spend twenty minutes gelling some lamps than hours trying to fix it post (with far from satisfactory results)?
 
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