Thinking about turning down studio distribution deal...

[Gratwick Films]

I recently finished my first film. A horror film entitled The Perfect House. We crowd funded the project and have gotten pretty lucky with people we've met along the way.

The success of the film and a little luck we've made connections in Hollywood that have us in direct contact with the decision makers of studios like Lionsgate and Universal. If we sell our movie we are most likely looking at a deal of 1-2 million. TOPS.

Which on the surface sounds great, but after all the people along the way get their taste there's not much left and more than likely no more coming no matter how good the film does.

I had planned on the self distribution route before we ever had the contacts so I am definitely not afraid of it. In fact I believe in it more than ever in light of Kevin Smith's speech at Sundance and Open letter at www.theredstatements.com stating his intentions with his new film.

I am thinking of spurning the distributors in favor of a planned VOD release date. Say October 1st and we spend the next 8 months doing screenings and independent film seminars/Q&A promoting the release date. Before we ever shot the film we received a ton of free press on many of the popular horror sites. With a finished project to show it should be even easier to get them on board for promoting our release.

Kevin Smith says he's determined to prove you can market with nothing more than social media, easy to say when you already used the system to create the fan base. I say it can be done by a total unknown making it real for everyone.

My question is this does anyone agree with me? And are you willing to support the cause?

 

[rockerrockstar]

One thing to think about is that the Studio can get your name and film out there for the masses and future films should be easier to get going if your film is as good as you say. I am also interested in your ideas for promotion of the film. Do you have a marketing plan for self distrubution? I am not convinced that video on demand is the ticket but you can do what ever you want. Why would you not want your film on the big screen?

 

[bhikkhu]

"you might be forever known as the guy who turned a 1 Million $ deal down."

That's what they'll call him as they see him wandering the streets of his hometown mumbling to himself, and periodically stopping to kick himself in the ass.

 

[Beatlesfan1225]

I think it would be insane not to take the studio deal. When a studio like Lionsgate recognizes your talent, and wants to buy from you, on your FIRST film, I'd sell. This is a gateway to new opportunities in Hollywood, anyone on this site would kill to have the chance you have. I wouldn't take a gamble, I'd sell it.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Just thinking here, was the original post designed to find its way into the ears of the distros? Seems risky to me to be publicly debating weather or not to sign a contract... unless of course your trying to "threaten" them in a backdoor way. I do NOT criticize this approach, and hope that you can push that 1-2 Million figure up in the 3-4 million range. Just sayin

 

[Abraxas Studios]

Just watched the trailer. Looks amazing, i see the OP's problem, i mean personally i'd jump at the chance to get a deal like that, but reading what some of you have said, especially with stuff like signing away rights to a sequel etc, it would make the decision a little bit tougher, if you've put all that work in to it, it'd be hard to let it go.

Either way a £1,000,000 is a £1,000,000 (or $'s in this case) even if i did only see £100,000 of that, that's £100,000 more than i currently have and that i can put towards my next feature.

 

[Owen]

If i want to watch a movie I go to the video store or cinema. If the movie hasn't got brad Pitt ect or atleast backed by lionsgate ect I assume b grade and don't hire. This is how alot of people I know choose films. So my point is if you don't take it I'll never see your film and I'm sure millions of others won't either.

Trailer looks good. Hope to see it at my local video store soon.

Owen

 

[spinner]

Am I missing something? Well, I guess I am. Where is the trailer? I wanna see....


-- spinner

 

[sonnyboo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00R2NgDrr7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpPA5Fieecs

 

[Gratwick Films]

CF makes a great point. I don't mean to step on it, but I have to make sure that these types of misconceptions don't go unnoticed...



The Corporation that made the film got $9 million for it, not any one individual person. The writer/director/producer/editor may be the sole beneficiary of that corporation, but there are contracts and breakdowns with payouts to investors, deferred pay, and a few hundred other ways that the money pie has to get sliced.

In the case of the BLAIR WITCH PROJECT, the made the film for $60,000 including deferments (original budget was $35,000). They sold the film for $1,000,000 to Artisan at Sundance. They paid back the $60,000 to investors and deferred payouts first, then split the net profits 50/50 with investors.

$940,000 split in half -> $470,000, with 2 producer/directors = $235,000 each then Uncle Sam and the IRS came in and took 43% leaving each director with = $133,950


So when I read about googily eyed filmmakers dreaming of how they are going to spend their "$1 million dollars" from a distribution deal, let's just say that I see the reality of $133,950 (and less if you have more than 2 producers on the film).

And that's not taking into account anyone on the cast or crew you promise "back end points" to. Subtract MORE money.

Welcome to the reality of the "business" half of the "movie business"...

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gratwick Films]

"You wanna hate hate but don't try to disguise it with an intellectual debate. Use your little google window and do some research and youll see I'm not making stuff up. Im the asshole that wants to break down the walls so you have a better chance to succeed when no distributor wants you. "​

I'm not sure you know the definitions of "hate" or "intellectual."

No. You're Superman.

Good luck. Whatever.

So "hating" doesn't mean bagging on someone out of nothing more than jealousy?

Intellectual doesn't mean intelligent as in an INTELLIGENT discussion?

If so then yes they were both used perfectly.

 

[Gratwick Films]

CF, I want to make sure you know I wasn't speaking directly about you, as this is how the vast majority of people making an indie film think, and not specific to you. I wasn't coming down on you personally, as I think you have talent. Your post just opened a door to a general discussion point is all.

Back to the topic on hand, I've seen the trailer and it is a very well shot and good acting looking film (from a trailer). I do not see a revolution in horror or a sudden demand in the realm of $1 million - $2 million for a feature film with no bankable international names in the cast or above the line. Because of the 35mm film adapters and DSLR's, there are literally thousands of films that look as good as this being made every year.

What separates this film from the rest?

What has created the demand for a studio to offer huge cash advances for this film?


I ask these questions not to be an ass, but as a consumer who may or may not choose to pay to see this film.

As for the ego, I went through that with my first feature film. My ego exploded hugely, and then the inevitable crashing down occurs too. Better to pop that bubble now and get real and get humble quick. You'll be better for it. Film is not a sport. Since film is categorized as "art", know that it is subjective and there is no such thing as truly "better" or "worse". One man's Citizen Kane is someone else's Dude Where's My Car. Love your work, but once you start down this path of "This is the best film ever made", you'll lose perspective and you won't be able to handle criticism like an adult.

Your two questions are easily answered with one response. Relationships. I have already built all the relationships you all mention as a necessity. Secondly for some of you please don't confuse my arrogance and confidence. My biggest belief is if we went with a distribution deal straight to dvd it would get lost in the endless decent straight to dvd movie land.

Just off the film alone I am already working with several places and businesses on financing for the franchise and a spinoff franchise. I am way past looking at the success of a single film. I would much rather take the film out to the public myself and BUILD that fan base in both the film and myself to grow with the franchise.

As far as what separates it from or revolutionizes the horror genre well I never went that far but it has a hook or draw that most horror films do not. It can appeal to ALL horror fans as it is an homage to horror. With three separate stories all shot in the same house each one takes place during a different generation. That time period each story is set in determined the style we shot each story in. IE 60-70's B&W very hitchcock, shadows, implied off camera violence, suspense. 80's your typical slasher film, dark humor, boobs, crazed killer. Present day your psychological thriller, graphic violence...

That and the 40k we spent on Digital imaging, color correction, cgi and
another 10k in post sound effects done by a sound boutique founded by two academy award winners for sound.

This is not your typical indie film. Also you are all taking the all or nothing option to literal. I would discuss in detail in my next post.

 

[Gratwick Films]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00R2NgDrr7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpPA5Fieecs

Thanks for posting!

The first one is the SPEC trailer we shot to raise the financing for the film.

The second one is the official trailer.

We are also currently making a 1 minute trailer to go with promotions.

 

[Gratwick Films]

Ok,

There seems to be some major misconceptions going on. Let me try to clear some things up....

1. A theatrical release is out of the question and not happening with any route, there are several reasons for this. One big one is quite a few people in the industry think we would suffer what Hatchet 2 went through with a BS NC-17 rating.

2. I should have elaborated a bit more on what I am considering doing. I am not looking to say screw the studios and completely SELF distribute. What I am trying to do is a Hybrid. Where we dictate the terms of a deal and the timing. This way we can coordinate everything to our best benefit and indirectly help the studio as well.

3. We are talking about a dvd deal only.

What I am considering is this. Instead of "here's our movie do with it as you please, thanks for the check, let me know when the dvd is released" and thats it..... I want to do this.....

Let me preface this by saying at this point in time this is all HYPOTHETICAL.

We take the finished film and start negotiating the foreign rights. We already brought in and have a relationship with someone who is going to sell each territory off individually no matter which way we go. When you do that, you have to include a date they all have to wait for, to release the dvds to avoid piracy. Lets say we make that date Jan 1 2012.

Now just off the sale of the foreign markets we have been told to expect about a million from that (completely separate from a domestic deal). BOOM done now we ALREADY gave our investors a profit on their investments and we're heroes.

2. We then meet with our interested domestic distr. we discuss selling them the dvd rights ONLY if they leave us the VOD and agree not to release till that same 1/1/2012 date. If they don't we walk, we already turned a profit so we have all the leverage. Either way we don't sell the rights until several months from now because....

3. With those VOD rights we set up a date say September 1st 2011 for the VOD release. We promote the HELL out of that date in every way we can. Screening and Q&A tour, online, publicists, cast and crew, relationships, contacts, and everything else we can drum up in the next few months till then. (You WILL be shocked how much publicity you can generate for almost nothing)

Instead of a wide theatrical release we are promoting a VOD release that can reach the world. Done correctly we can pull in as much as a bad opening weekend for a major film. PEOPLE AND STUDIOS WILL TAKE NOTICE OF THAT.

REGARDLESS of what the return is, we have Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec as exclusive months for the VOD. Thats ALL our money nothing has to be shared with anyone but investors and producers.

Now your building a fan base.

Furthermore with sequels and two franchises ALREADY in the works we have something that can grow in value over time. As those other much bigger sequels come out people will want to see the original.

JUST taking the dvd deal we will NEVER see anything on the back end. Now my investors have a profit AND a way to keep earning off the success of the franchises, and I have away to directly connect and build that fan base from touring with the film.

From the tour you can record almost everything and use it as doc footage and endless extras. Ideally you could watch a small tour grow into something big, an event! How great of a dvd extra would that be?

Now you have us promoting the VOD release and creating extras. Now the dvd rights are worth even MORE so you sell to the domestic and even the foreign distr. at a much higher value.

Its not about one or the other. Its about putting the control and leverage into the hands of the creators and coordinating all available revenue streams to make each one more valuable for everyone.

Some of you mentioned the millions of people we wouldn't reach.....They are NOT our audience. This is not your artsy indie passion project. EVERYTHING about this film was designed to be marketable to our fan base. The 16 year old horror nut that lives online and if he likes it he's going to tell EVERYONE he knows. In fact he won't shut up about it.

 

[Gratwick Films]

‎"the next generation of filmmakers should distinguish themselves by forming distribution companies instead of production companies"

"I kept waiting for it to happen. But that ol’ Indie spirit, it don’t wait forever. Sooner or later, Indie spirit rolls up the sleeves and says “s’cool – we’ll just do it ourselves.”

- Quentin Tarrantino

 

[ussinners]

I have no problems any way you choose to do it. But, can I ask a serious question: Have you been offered deals from major distributors?

It's great to have partners and such that can get your movie seen by them. But, have they actually made offers?

It's great to speculate "Should I". But, the reality is "Can you".

At the absolute least, listen to an offer (if they even offer), then make a decision from there. When it comes to all this, it's offer/counter offer. That's what negotiations are all about.

 

[Gratwick Films]

I have no problems any way you choose to do it. But, can I ask a serious question: Have you been offered deals from major distributors?

It's great to have partners and such that can get your movie seen by them. But, have they actually made offers?

It's great to speculate "Should I". But, the reality is "Can you".

At the absolute least, listen to an offer (if they even offer), then make a decision from there. When it comes to all this, it's offer/counter offer. That's what negotiations are all about.

Here's a funny story about speculation....after I spent several months reading many of the posts on this site and others I learned a lot. One of the things I learned is there was an AWFUL lot of people speculating and wondering what if about every little detail of filmmaking. I went out experimented a few times (Nothing worth showing anyone, but I LEARNED the answers I couldn't find on these forums and I made the connections I would eventually need) and once I had a grasp of what needed to be done I did it.

No school, No connections, No rich friends. Just sheer determination and a bunch of like minded people.

I don't waste time with speculation.

 

[Gratwick Films]

Here's a funny story about speculation....after I spent several months reading many of the posts on this site and others I learned a lot. One of the things I learned is there was an AWFUL lot of people speculating and wondering what if about every little detail of filmmaking. I went out experimented a few times (Nothing worth showing anyone, but I LEARNED the answers I couldn't find on these forums and I made the connections I would eventually need) and once I had a grasp of what needed to be done I did it.

No school, No connections, No rich friends. Just sheer determination and a bunch of like minded people.

I don't waste time with speculation.

That "should" take care of the could you or can I questions....

 

[Owen]

You sound like you know what your talking about and beleive strongly in it so go for it. If you take the deal you'll never know what you missed out on.
Good luck and please share your success story with us over the next few years.

Owen

 

[ussinners]

Yeah. But, you didn't actually answer the "question" question. Have you been offered deals from these distributors?

From your attitude, I'm sure you'll do just fine in Hollywood.

 

[sonnyboo]

hilarious

Here's a funny story about speculation....after I spent several months reading many of the posts on this site and others I learned a lot. One of the things I learned is there was an AWFUL lot of people speculating and wondering what if about every little detail of filmmaking. I went out experimented a few times (Nothing worth showing anyone, but I LEARNED the answers I couldn't find on these forums and I made the connections I would eventually need) and once I had a grasp of what needed to be done I did it.

No school, No connections, No rich friends. Just sheer determination and a bunch of like minded people.

I don't waste time with speculation.

That "should" take care of the could you or can I questions....

It was a simple and direct question, yes or no, did a studio offer you a million dollar deal?

No, you did not answer that direct question. You wasted our time with a story about speculation....

Now I am curious, can you please answer YES or NO, did a studio offer you a million dollar distribution deal for this film?

Now just off the sale of the foreign markets we have been told to expect about a million from that (completely separate from a domestic deal). BOOM done now we ALREADY gave our investors a profit on their investments and we're heroes.

Uh, the BOOM is actually the sound of floor dropping out when that estimate turns out to be no where near reality. You have a digital feature film in the horror genre with no star power or recognizable selling point to a foreign video market.... Not sure where this million dollar figure came from, but it so incredibly unrealistic that I wouldn't quite count on that number for you or anyone else. Have you been to AFM or the Cannes Film Market or Berlin? No one is paying that much for ANY titles, including ones with decent name stars as indie film. The HD revolution has decimated foreign sale prices because everyone is making their own low budget horrors films in Dubai, Korea, the Philippines, South America etc. The buyers are no longer in need of a pile of American low budget features for DVD when they have their own now, already natively in the their own language.

I'm guessing a sales agent or producer's rep gave you that estimate of a million dollars. There's a reason they used the qualifier "estimate".... also what is their commission rate? What is their expense cap? Even if by some miracle your film does a million dollars in sales, kiss 15%-25% in commission away off the top, then expect a lot of costs in their expenses for markets, sales, DVD copies, deliverables, PAL and SECAM master dubs, art work, posters, flights to other countries for sales, booth rentals, flyers, and I can continue to make the lists, but you get the idea.

Have you done you M&E tracks yet for deliverables? You seem pretty on top of your game, so I would almost assume yes, but it never hurts to ask.

Your two questions are easily answered with one response. Relationships. I have already built all the relationships you all mention as a necessity. Secondly for some of you please don't confuse my arrogance and confidence. My biggest belief is if we went with a distribution deal straight to dvd it would get lost in the endless decent straight to dvd movie land.

Just off the film alone I am already working with several places and businesses on financing for the franchise and a spinoff franchise. I am way past looking at the success of a single film. I would much rather take the film out to the public myself and BUILD that fan base in both the film and myself to grow with the franchise.

As far as what separates it from or revolutionizes the horror genre well I never went that far but it has a hook or draw that most horror films do not. It can appeal to ALL horror fans as it is an homage to horror. With three separate stories all shot in the same house each one takes place during a different generation. That time period each story is set in determined the style we shot each story in. IE 60-70's B&W very hitchcock, shadows, implied off camera violence, suspense. 80's your typical slasher film, dark humor, boobs, crazed killer. Present day your psychological thriller, graphic violence...

That and the 40k we spent on Digital imaging, color correction, cgi and
another 10k in post sound effects done by a sound boutique founded by two academy award winners for sound.

The two questions I asked:

What separates this film from the rest?

What has created the demand for a studio to offer huge cash advances for this film?

I don't think a good sound mix and color correction or having digital effects really separates your film (or any film) from the herd. As for your horror concept, it's good and I'd even say somewhat original, but you honestly feel it's a MILLION DOLLAR VALUE "original"? I'm quite certain the exuberance of a first time film director is the adamant "YES!" but just don't get crushed when the rest of the world may not agree.

Maybe they will, who am I to judge?