The scope of an "editor"

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driverrodeshotgun

Hi everyone,

I've been making films for awhile and have always edited my own. But in regards to color grading/correction and sound editing, I always use someone who specializes in those areas, and the results have been great. I know there are editors out there that can do literally everything. I've just never taken the time to learn color and sound because there's so much detail and specialization involved and I feel it's good to focus on what you do best, which for me is figuring out how to best tell a story, when to cut smoothly and make sure continuity is correct, etc

Recently I've been editing some films and scenes for other filmmakers who have been happy with my work. These are filmmakers that were looking for an editor, and then have plans to take the locked picture and have a colorist and sound editor work through it. My question here is centered around what people expect from an "editor." I've seen countless ads looking for an editor who can edit, color correct, sound edit. Then I see ads who are just looking for an editor who does what I do, and then they have plans to get color and sound done.

With professional and semi-professional films...an "editor" are those that handle the narrative aspect correct? And then there's a post production team that handles color and sound. Or is the scope of an "editor" supposed to be someone who can do literally everything? I know one is more employable if they can do everything and are a one man army, but I'm just curious on people's opinions on that. When I edit I sync audio, I pay attention to sound, I pay attention to color and know how I want it to sound and look, so I'm aware of this stuff, it's just doing it myself...is something I don't do, but I convey it to those that do it. Am I less of an editor because of that? Does Walter Murch and Thelma Schoonmaker and Michael Kahn do everything?

Lately I feel like calling myself an editor is hypocritical when I see ads asking for someone who can do everything in the book, even including vfx.
 
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I am an editor. I am not a sound editor, or a colorist. I do not do VFX.
But I do not feel hypocritical calling myself and editor because I'm
an editor.
driverrodeshotgun said:
Does Walter Murch and Thelma Schoonmaker and Michael Kahn do everything?
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No they don't. Take a look at the post-production jobs, specifically
the editorial department. The editor does none of those jobs.

A man once said, "A generalist is rarely as talented as a specialist."
Can't remember who but it's very true.
 
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I work as a sound editor. I am a generalist in my own craft; I do dialog editing, perform and record Foley, create sound effects and edit them from sound libraries, edit score & source music, and mix the results.

A specialist will have better tools. My rooms are sound proof and sonically treated. I have fairly pricey speakers. I have a nice mic collection. My software selections are geared towards sound editing and mixing. I have a dozen years of audio post experience and many more years of audio experience in general - music recording, live sound support and production sound. I will do a better job than you; not because I'm smarter, but because I have the proper tools, skills and experience.
 
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Okay glad I'm not alone. I believed that too..but seeing all these ads, just made me second guess. I believe in that generalist quote as well. It's good to do certain things great, rather than do everything. I love handing specific things off to certain people...the results are better. The finished film is better.
 
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The reason you see all of those ads is that people either a) don't realize they're vastly different jobs, b) are too cheap to pay for the work to be done right, or c) all of the above.
 
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I'm curious. Is it a good idea to work with one editor(s) (say student volunteers) to get the narrative aspect down and then take that and maybe hire someone for color and sound? (i.e. all the highly technical stuff I don't think I have expertise on.)

Just think it may be more cost effective to work with a cheap editing program that doesn't have fancy bells and whistles and leave the more complicated stuff to someone with a very good (and probably expensive) program. Is that technically feasible?
 
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Will Vincent said:
Walter Murch does do some sound design though, he mentions it once or twice in this talk...
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OUCH!!! Double OUCH even!!! That's like saying Roger Deakins does some cinematography, Stanley Kubrik did some directing and Jack Foley did some sound effects recording. Walter Murch is one of the founding fathers of modern sound design and in pretty much everyone's list of top 5 most important sound designers of all time! In fact, it was Walter Murch who actually invented the term "Sound Designer" and he was the first person ever to be officially credited as such. Incidentally, it was for the film Apocalypse Now, for which he won the Oscar for Best Sound.

To the OP: Walter Murch really is an (exceptional) exception to the rule. He is the only person ever to win the Oscar for Best Film Editing and Best Sound for the same film ( The English Patient) and also won both BAFTAs (for The Conversation). There really is no one else like him, I don't know of any commercial/professional features (or even TV dramas) where the same person has been hired as both the Picture Editor and the Sound Designer, let alone won Oscars or BAFTAs for both.

At the very lowest end of the TV market, it's not unheard of for the video editor to also do the sound and colour. But beyond that point they are always different roles and of course require very different equipment/facilities. I wouldn't put any weight on adverts you've seen. Some of the adverts (particularly a few re-posted on the pro audio forums from Mandy) are truly hilarious and demonstrate almost zero knowledge/understanding of film making in general and even less than that as far as the post-production process is concerned!

G
 
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Will Vincent said:
I disagree, I believe he is primarily an editor.
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No, it's the other way around! He started as a sound editor and mixer and then some years later started editing picture. Walter Murch has been at the heart of the film sound world for many years. He was part of the team who invented the 5.1 film sound format, he was also a consultant on the construction of Skywalker Sound, a recipient of the Career Achievement Award and an Outstanding Achievement Award from the CAS and the list goes on and on. In fact few film sound advances are brought to market without consulting Walter Murch. It's not just that Walter Murch invented the term "Sound Designer" but along with Ben Burtt he revolutionised and defined what sound design actually is. He is obviously a great film editor but his contribution to the world of film sound far surpasses his contribution to picture editing, even if in recent years he has done more editing than film sound.

G
 
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Well, whatever.. the point is he (as an exception to the rule) does both sound and picture editing. :)

I've neither the time, nor desire to argue the semantics, because frankly I don't really care one way or the other.
 
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I'm pretty much just re-iterating what has already been said here. If you've got the money (or networking) to hire the right people, then the editor only edits video, no coloring, no audio, nothing else.

On ultra-low budget stuff, it's not unusual for the editor to handle all post production. If I'm making a short film, I edit video, audio, do all the coloring, etc. But those are definitely different skills, and there's only one of them that I'm actually good at.
 
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driverrodeshotgun said:
Lately I feel like calling myself an editor is hypocritical when I see ads asking for someone who can do everything in the book, even including vfx.
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I directed a feature film that won awards at festivals, selling on Amazon.com and elsewhere. I also did all the editing -- sound, video, grading, vfx and so on. No one else touched my Mac. So by gosh, I'm an EDITOR!

Here's a hint for those of you wanting to do it all -- Don't write anything in your script that calls for you to do something beyond your skill as an editor.

If your film is VFX heavy and you've little skills, abandon your project and re-write script to match what you can do now.
 
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GA, let's be honest -- your film is not even close to the quality of filmmaking that most people on this forum would like to acheive. Neither is mine.

You and I both handled ALL post-production on each of our films (only exception being that I hired composers). We both won awards on the festival circuit, but what the hell does that mean?

For real, let's be honest, you and me are not there yet. And a large part of that is the fact that we aren't yet able to delegate jobs to people who are best at those particular tasks.

Ideally, an editor should only edit video.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
GA, let's be honest -- your film is not even close to the quality of filmmaking that most people on this forum would like to acheive. Neither is mine.

You and I both handled ALL post-production on each of our films (only exception being that I hired composers). We both won awards on the festival circuit, but what the hell does that mean?

For real, let's be honest, you and me are not there yet. And a large part of that is the fact that we aren't yet able to delegate jobs to people who are best at those particular tasks.

Ideally, an editor should only edit video.
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I disagree entirely. People are buying my film -- I'm looking to at least break even. I challenge you to spot an editing blunder/flaw in my film. There may be other shortcomings but editing is NOT one of them. Video, sound, vfx is spot on, period. Editing is where I where I had the most control of the film so I took the time to make it perfect!

Indie filmmakers should learn to become a master at editing -- you already have the same equipment in front of you that the big boys use so practice, experiement, and explore over and over again until you, too can play with them.
 
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Watch Gravity, then watch your own film. Then tell me that they're on the same level. Please do not consider this an attack on you, cuz you and I are in the same boat. We're both ultra-low-budget filmmakers, and we've both had a moderate amount of success.

But we should view these little successes as stepping-stones to greater things. And in cinema, greater things happen when a giant team of really talented people get together to make a film, each one of them contributing the one single thing that they are good at.
 
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