Talent Show; The documentary...

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ICBAstudios

OK, so I didn't want to come right and admit I'm a total newb, but this is the interweb so nobody knowses me... I volunteered to film a talent show (my son will be in, by coincidence) and would like to make it into a "movie" to prsent to the organizers and a few others. It's been "taped" the past few years but no one ever has copies to pass around.
What I need is a few ideas on how to edit/film the event in a way that doesn't end up looking like the typical home-movie. It's not really an event, like a wedding or other party, that can be condensed into highlights... all the kids families will want to see "Johnny" acting like a moose, or whatever... I do have 2 cameras (need 3 or 4???) and am thinking I want to just use multiple angles on the individual acts with cuts back and forth from cameras. Don't see any other options.
HELP????
And thanks in advance for any input. The show is this weekend (didn't know about it 'till last night) so doing a behind the scenes/practice footage docu seems outta the question right now.
:weird:
 
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If you are just planning on filming the show to pass around to other parents, I think you've got the right idea. Find a few good angles and film the whole thing from all of them.

How to not make it look like a home movie?
That's tough, for one, make sure to use a tripod for all stuff. If you record the audio directly from the PA system (you'll only need 1 good track since you have to sync it up in post anyway) that would make your sound better. What kind of cameras do you have? Don't forget to hold a piece of blank white paper up to each so you can white balance evenly in post or in camera.

Not sure what you're looking for otherwise. The only other tip I can think of is try and create a beginning middle and end to the video, so people will be pulled through the whole thing more smoothly.

Hope that helps :) Good luck!
 
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Are you doing this with plans to sell it to the families?
This is the key question. If yes, then you better get little Johny in all his glory or else nobody will buy it, or if they do, they will be mad as heck if Johnny's NOT in it.

But if your not selling it, then don't worry about all the little Johny's, just yours.

This is the PERFECT thing to condense into highlights. Not even parents REALLY want to see their kids standing on stage with there mouth hanging open as they wet them selves from fright.. no, they want to see Johnny in a GOOD light, and that might only be for ten or eleven seconds. Try this. Look at your clock. Now, don't read past this line for at least one complete minute.


A minutes is a feakin life time on the screen. Don't waste my time with anything but beauty.

Heck, I do this to my home movies..

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWheatgrinder#p/u/3/_aAPvvqHHxo
(FYI: Some of my own kids didn't make the cut!)

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWheatgrinder#p/u/6/ONX3tqcvw3o

Here is an example of doing it for a performance type event, not a talent show, but sorta the same setup..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mtxmMYDdpOs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mtxmMYDdpOs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
 
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Thanks Dready, it helps. I don't think I'll be able to control the beginning, end, or middle, lol, but I'll do what I can. I have a Canon ZR25mc and a Sanyo Xacti cg10. Also have a Sony ccd-trv58 I can use too I think. Quite a combo, but it will have to do...
 
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Thanks Wheat, but not selling it. And I'm thinking it would be difficult to condense 30 sec. to 3min. skits/songs. Non-specific dialog and actions are a little easier to highlight just the pinnacle or "interesting" portions. Leaving out the intro and including the punch-line won't cut it for a talent show, besides, it's all family/friends. They'll have to fast forward if they want to only watch a specific sketch... I know an hour is going to be KILLER to deal with, but .. maybe I can make dvd menus to segment the beginning, middle, and end?
 
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ICBAstudios said:
I don't think I'll be able to control the beginning, end, or middle, lol, but I'll do what I can.
Click to expand...

Of course you can, you have the power of the editor. If you want to take one thing that was at the end and put it at the beginning, you can absolutely do that. Also, why not do like a docu style? You missed out on practice but you can get there early and film the cars getting there, the kids walking in, the kids waiting backstage.

I'd set up 2-3 cameras from the audience perspective. Then with the other 1 or two, be standing backstage and interviewing the kids before they go on. If you can enlist the help of someone else, have them take the camera that's best in low light of the bunch, and just film the reactions of the audience. Here's where creative editing helps because you can just use the 'happy' expressions and mix and match where you need them. It's like an unconscious thing that if the viewer watches it and sees someone enjoying it, they will think it's better.

You could also interview parents and attendees afterwards if there is some sort of coffee and cake reception or whatnot.



And @wheatgrinder: I do the same thing with any home movies I take. I just got to babysit my nephew recently (he's 2) and so I ended up taking some video of him. I really wish I had planned to do this because there were so many opportunities to make it into a little story of the day if I had just thought about the fact I'd want to edit it into something. I know for next time at least :)

And since we're sharing home movies, here it is :P http://www.youtube.com/user/sammislawa#p/u/2/RytzGAruxwQ
 
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Very cute nephew!! Looks like you guys had fun. And thanks, I think I'll try to do before and after interviews and set-up/break-down shots. I like the audience view idea, nice! Now if only I had 3 or 4 of the same cameras.. the Sanyo is actually VERY good for the price. Just doesn't have any "meat" to it for stability.
 
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You can DO IT ALL.. :)

Set up one cam to tape every minute of stage action.

The other cam is your hand held, live aciton etc.

Let the main stage cam roll.

With the other, go around and tape crowd reactions, back stage drama, people that are talking in the halls.. etc.

Cut a main movie with just highlights. Mixing your hand held shots with a few choice highlights from the stage cam.


And for each kid just include the clip of just that kid on stage as an extra.

That way you get 100% creative control of the interesting part (edits etc) and make all the parents happy, cause they get 100% of little Johny footage.
 
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nice kid shots Dreddy. I laughed, I cried, I wanted mashed peas.

Man, no more toddlers in my house.. whew.. Its amazing that my kids managed to keep all of their fingers through that stage!
 
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Kids...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixjACBvv2mE



Advice on how to make it not look like a home movie:

Get some establishing shots. Shoot where it is held outside.

Check out other existing documentaries on something similar. I think there was one about a spelling bee recently you can watch.

It's important to view existing works to see how they did it. It's been done before and if you don't expand your knowledge base you are going to end up trying to re-invent the wheel.
 
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wheatgrinder said:
wow Roc, those all your relatives? Cute
Click to expand...

Ahh fooey.



I just thought of another thing which might be cool and ALSO could totally be cool for the kids and that would be to interview each one after the show and get on camera how they felt about it and how they did - but this could backfire if they get all shy and don't want to talk about it etc. etc.

But I'm sure the parents would get a kick out of it.
 
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Okay, I've had about enough of this shenanigans. Dreadylocks and wheatgrinder, you're both offering some really cool advice if ICBAstudios were trying to shoot a documentary. Also, I like what both of you have done with your home-vids. Cute.

However, we need the entire talent show. Err, the entire performance anyway. There's no need to see introductions or people bowing while audience applauses, etc. But each individual performance needs to be seen continuous, from start to finish, no?

You need two cameras, and two tripods. Any chance you can get audio from the stage? Can you get a recording straight from the PA? That would be very beneficial.

If you can't get independent audio and need to record it with your camera mic, get your camera close to the stage. If you've got the luxury of recording audio seperately, move the cameras a ways back.

Camera #1 is a wide shot. Get the entire stage, and nothing more. Once the shot it set up, you let it roll, and don't touch it. If one of the cameras has better resolution than the other, use that one (so you can zoom in post, without pixelating).

Camera #2 is your medium/closeup camera. Keep it on a tripod, but actively pan/tilt/zoom to wherever the action is taking place. Get as much variation in shots as possible. This camera should be in a seperate location from camera #1.

HOWEVER -- AND THIS IS A BIG HOWEVER:

First-time videographers seem to have the inate ability to move the camera WAY, WAY, WAY too often. It seems like they feel they're not doing their job if they're not constantly moving. Resist this temptation. Set up your shot as quickly as possible. Make whatever adjustments you have to make, then relax. Let the action take place. It's difficult to make a rule of thumb for how long to keep this camera stationary, because that depends on what is happening onstage, but I'd say 20-30 seconds is a good number to shoot for.

How do you make it look like more than a home-vid? Well, besides the shoot-script I just gave you, and besides kicking ass and taking names in post-production, I think you'd be very well served by learning the basics of photography. Your shoot is only a few days away, so perhaps you don't overwhelm yourself with too much info. I'm a big fan of the rule of 3rds. If you don't already know it --

http://photoinf.com/General/KODAK/guidelines_for_better_photographic_composition_rule_of_thirds.html
 
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Thanks

Audio is a must.

If it's in an echoey basketball gym (which it most likely will be) a camera mic will be death to the whole project.

You'll need to rent at least a couple mics to record the audio on the stage...

Do you have any sort of budget for that type of thing? I highly recommend it, but I sort of get the feeling this is a "can you do us a favor" type gigs..
 
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I got that feeling, too. Here's a thought -- if it is indeed the case that you just gotta work with what you've got, and you don't have a PA to record audio directly from, find a third camera. A shitty one. Everyone knows somebody who's got a shitty camcorder, the kind that cost about $400 and is used only on drunken Vegas vacations. You put that camera RIGHT UP on center stage, don't worry about framing the shot, this is just your shitty audio cam.
 
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Good idea on the 3rd camera. Better than nothing close to the stage for sure -

Possibly someone has a Zoom recorder they could lend you, also. But then that's a whole 'nother story with syncing audio etc. etc. that we'll have to help you with.
 
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Oof, you guys are killing me... yes it's a favor, but i need the practice. And as for that crappy "$400" camera... well that exceeds my current camera(s) value (3 cameras, 6 batteries, 3 chargers, a mono pod, tripod, and bags for all of it... phooey, I sound like a teenager now..). Well at least my main camera actually does a great job of audio, and no chance at PA since it's at a senior center and most acts as well as the MC are using standalone amps. Looks like I have to pull a rabbit out of the hat in post...
As a side note, I'm thinking of editing 2 versions, one for families and one for Youtube, can do the highlights and special moments in under 8 min.s and then pass a full length version around to the families. Shortened a little of course ala Crackers suggestion.
Dang this economy and my personal lack of "budget"... oh well, maybe next year. I'll do what I can with what I got for now.
 
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