Talent recruitment

1

123kingjet

I haven't been back her for a long time but here I am again. I am begging to ask you guys how important are stars on a movie project? And what type of star quality are movie makers usually looking for. For example, would very popular web stars or "it" girls count as stars on a movie project?

Also if you could find popular web stars for your movies that can act and are visually appealing, would you pay for a low cost service that delivers guaranteed stars for a low price?

Let the comments, questions and criticism begin, I am very eager to here any and all comments
 
You're making a mistake common amongst indies, because the truth is:

There is no such thing as a cheap star... they're either cheap, or they are a star... they can't be both.

Now, there's a whole direct to DVD industry based on bad films hiring in a "name" for one day's work, so they can use them on the cover. It's pretty shody film making and it exploits both the audience and the actor.

However, the good news is, if you have a box office draw name, you can build a budget that matches their perceived draw... so, stars are self financing.

I'm all for attaching names and then bringing a budget to a project... that's good business. I personally detest the "if I can get a name on the cover, it will sell" mentality.

Good scripts attach name actors and directors... good directors and actors attach budgets... good scripts, name actors and budget bring audiences... THAT is how the business works.
 
clive said:
You're making a mistake common amongst indies, because the truth is:

There is no such thing as a cheap star... they're either cheap, or they are a star... they can't be both.

Now, there's a whole direct to DVD industry based on bad films hiring in a "name" for one day's work, so they can use them on the cover. It's pretty shody film making and it exploits both the audience and the actor.

However, the good news is, if you have a box office draw name, you can build a budget that matches their perceived draw... so, stars are self financing.

I'm all for attaching names and then bringing a budget to a project... that's good business. I personally detest the "if I can get a name on the cover, it will sell" mentality.

Good scripts attach name actors and directors... good directors and actors attach budgets... good scripts, name actors and budget bring audiences... THAT is how the business works.
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Umm I didn't mean cheap stars, I mean it was cheap to find these stars and that they might be willing to act for a cheap price. My question I think is still misunderstood.

What do you guys think of a very attractive guy/girl that has achieved fame in the "web" world through videos and photos upload loaded online but as yet to act in her/his first film. Would you hire someone like that to act? Would there star quality transfer to the screen? And would you pay for a service that can provide these "newbie" stars to you?

Personally though Clive, its interesting to know that some people use "names" based of a one day work. I never thought that people would resort to that but now I know thanks for the heads up.
 
I would never pay for access to an actor... period.

The model is very simple... they have an agent, you pay them to work, agent takes commission from the work... anybody who is charging for introductions is a scam artist and should be flogged in the streets!

As to whether I'd hire a web bimbo to star in a film... I'd have to audition her and she's have to be able to generate good press for the film.

It's not a bad strategy if she can act... if she can't... well, you might still make money. (if that's your bottom line)
 
I pay casting directors. They often have access to actors that I can't get to
even through their agent. That's kind of like paying for access to an actor.

I'm with clive on the casting of a web "model". If her "name" on a DVD box
would help drive sales it might be worth it. I'm not really up on who is has
achieved fame in the "web" world through videos and photos upload online,
do you have any examples?
 
I pay casting directors. They often have access to actors that I can't get to
even through their agent. That's kind of like paying for access to an actor
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Great point... consider me suitably humbled. So, there is a situation under which I'd pay for access! LOL :blush:
 
Casting agents are paid right? For example, do talent agencies only take a portion of the actors income, or are they paid? And if they are, what is something that is very low pay, say 60 dollars a year for access compared to a casting agent?

Oh and for examples of online fame people there are playboy internet models, Youtube stars which all you have to do is look for the top subscriber owning producers, These Forbe celebs which take into consideration that only some of them actually act and these are the top ones.

Other webstars that currently exist come for sites such as myspace and facebook. This article about Tila Tequila tells about the accomplished fame and use in media brought by her internet fame. There are a large amount of web stars just like these on the web.

Would you take them as actors? Also would paying for such a service annoy you. Take into consideration though that there are other online gigs that do charge for accessing their database of actors, newfaces.com is a good example.

Internet fame can be created and a famous person might entail 10,000 to 100,000 loyal fans or more.
 
You are talking about two different things.

An agent works for the actor and gets a percentage of the fee
they negotiate.
A casting director works for the prodCo and is paid to bring a
qualified cast to the project.

Of that top 25 list I have heard of three. So the answer is no.
I would not put Harry Knowles in a movie no matter how many
loyal fans he has. Maybe if it was a cameo and he played himself,
but I can't imagine that his name and picture on a DVD box
would make too many people want to pay to see the movie.

And seeing any of those names on a DVD box wouldn't get me
to see the movie.
 
Sorry about getting the two mixed up.

Would you use this service then, Newfaces.com? It provides actors among other talents to agencies and other such recruitment services.

Their fees range from $10-$280 a year for access for the datbase, magazines and other stuff on the site.

Would you as a producer use such a site? Would you hire someone with an attractive face but with relatively no experience? What if this attractive person was ranked #1 on a well promoted site? Think actresses like Telia tequila from myspace, just instead it isn't myspace. It is a ranking site of people's attractiveness. Would you use such a site if it was free to look for talent?

I understand the whole name on the movie thing, would a brand name website company included on your movie make it more marketable?

I am sorry if I am a bit of a nuisance asking all these questions but I am curious to learn from experienced filmmakers such as you guys. Thank you for your advice and experience, it is most invaluable to me.
 
I've looked at NewFaces.com. I wouldn't use this service.

Would you hire someone with an attractive face but with relatively no experience?
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Yes.

What if this attractive person was ranked #1 on a well promoted site?
Click to expand...
That wouldn't make any difference to me.

Would you use such a site if it was free to look for talent?
Click to expand...
No.

I understand the whole name on the movie thing, would a brand name website company included on your movie make it more marketable?
Click to expand...
No.

Let me ask you something: if you are walking the isles of a video store or looking through the selections on
Netflix would seeing the name of a website company on the cover of the DVD make you want to see the movie?

Everything else being equal - a story that you find interesting, a director you've never heard of, a movie you
never saw a trailer for which of these two things would cause you to pay closer attention to the movie:

1: cast provided by NewFaces.com!
2: starring Robert "Freddy Kruger" England!

Now which of these two do you think the average movie goer would pick up?


 
I see your point, an average movie goer would pick up a movie with a famous actor, but not a movie with a website name on it. As a producer, you would not use newface correct?

For attractive people, you would consider in hiring them even though they have no experience. A site that conjures up these people to you would be no different correct?

A a "famous" person is one famous in film not online, am I getting this correct?
 
I'm with Rik on the "cast by 'insert name of web scam' company" issue

However, there is another angle:

If you have an internet bimbo, who is getting 12,000 hits a day on her website... then she has an audience.

If you make a film and let her pimp the film on her site... well, then you've got a potential "cult" classic in the making.

Rik's right, people rent films they've heard about... but, there are any number of ways to generate PR for a film and this isn't the most insane one I've heard this week... or even this month.

The only caveat to this, is you've got to play to her strengths and give here audience what they want... if she's got a huge audience because she's "naturally gifted" I think is the glamour model term, LOL, then that's what her role in the the film needs to be about.

For some reason Russ Meyer leaps to mind!
 
As a producer or director I would not use NewFaces.com.

I have very often hired attractive people with no experience for my movies. Low
budget horror is one of the few genres that can sell without a name. What draws
people to the DVD box is a pretty girl in danger. Low budget action is similar - a
muscular guy with a gun and an attractive girl (maybe with a gun) is a selling point.

So far I haven't heard of a model or "web personality" making the transition from
12,000 hits a day to DVD sales. In fact, it seems that isn't translating at all. What
people will look at for free on line and pay for are often not the same. Even if people
are paying a monthly fee to see pictures or videos of a web model doesn't mean
they will by a movie starring that person.

But as clive said, a model getting thousands of hits a day on a web site might
generate DVD sales. Saying "The number one model on NewFaces.com six weeks
in a row!" isn't going to get too many people buy a DVD.

I don't think so anyway....
 
I don't think you quite get what newfaces does yet.

Newfaces is a online place for models and actors to post their portfolios and if the are new, to post their photos. Talent agencies, casting agents and industry pros can view and get in contact with these inspiring actors, actresses or models. Newface clients include agencies that represent Johnny Depp, Magazines such as Maxim and TV agents from ABC among others.

Some of the clients that newfaces have had relatively few experience but after loading up their photos to Newfaces site, they were contacted. These are some of the success stories from newfaces site.

So yes there haven been many actors and actresses found by newface and succeed with big name Hollywood producers. Just check the Casting section and you can see the plethora of big name film companies.

Oh and Rik, Newfaces doesn't do ranking or being "top model". They just simply have pictures of people and their portfolio. The ranking idea is a added bonus from my model on top of theirs.

Hope this clears up a bit of what Newfaces does and they do have big name companies with actors that are hired based on their online portfolio.

As always I have the utmost respect for you guys.

Thanks in advance
 
I understand that Newfaces doesn't do ranking or being "top model". I was
using that as an example of a marketing hook that I don't think would work.

I get the feeling you are somehow connected with NewFaces.com.
 
I think you're right Rik... and between you and me I'm getting completely sick of "bogus referral" marketing.

There is a very fine line between "fake referral marketing" and out right scamming. Either way, it's attempting to make money by telling lies and misrepresentation.

I think I'm going to do something about this... I've been meaning to write an article over at 1000dollarfilm about how to avoid scams, because there have been a rash of really heinous ones recently.

However, I think I'm going to included "bogus" marketing techniques as well.

I mean this is the third "Oh, what you do think about this service, that I heard about" posting in the last two weeks.

On top of that, they are always for such incredibly lame, exploitative products... dodgy investment clubs, half-arsed online model agencies and ill-conceived self distribution services.

In fact, I think there's only been one straight forward pitch all this month, from eyesoda.com who is offering distribution by download, was completely up front about who she was, and that she was a start up and how small her current membership is... that site is really growing on me. In fact, I'm going to write about how brilliant she is... and promote her site for free.

There is a misconception held largely by idiots, about sales and marketing... people hear that "word of mouth" is the best marketing... and they are right, but because they are weasels, they think they can fake good word of mouth... but, the problem is reputations are built by delivering a good product... and no amount of saying "but it's made of gold" will ever put a shine, on what is essentially a turd.
 
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"Lipstick on a Pig", as the expression goes. I was once talking to a guy about marketing a video and his advice to me was to create several identities and go on forums, posting good reviews of my movie and bad reviews of my competition's movies. He said I should have one "real" identity that would respond in a very professional way, and to use a distinct fake identity for each purpose, being careful not to tip anyone off.

That was my free advertising tip, and that was several years ago. I told him I would not do business that way, and he told me that my competitors were doing it and I was going to take a beating if I did not fight fire with fire. I replied that I'd just have to find an ethical way to make money, if not in on-line movie sales, then in something else.

As much as I hate to give tools to "big brother", I'd like to see that day that we sign everything with a digital signature that can be verified through a public key repository. That will allow us to put an end to spam, and we can choose to ignore anything that is posted without clear, verifiable identification. I have nothing against anonymous posting and free speech, but when someone can destroy a product or business or promote a scam by posting lies, we at least need a way to know which ones are willing to stake their name on what they are saying.

Oops, did anyone ask for my opinion? ;) I'm supposed to be working on an article for an e-zine! :D

Doug
 
I hope kingjet isn’t pulling that nonsense. Especially here. This
is a good group and there are a bunch of great people who are
glad to offer an opinion and help out.

If kingjet is connected to that site - as a model rep there or has
a “123kingjet” page - I would have no trouble answering the
questions as someone who hires talent. But if this is an attempt
to sell me (or anyone) on the virtues of that site then I feel
like I was taken advantage of.

And if kingjet actually wanted me, a producer/director, to
consider using that site, now I feel I was mislead.
 
clive said:
I think you're right Rik... and between you and me I'm getting completely sick of "bogus referral" marketing.

There is a very fine line between "fake referral marketing" and out right scamming. Either way, it's attempting to make money by telling lies and misrepresentation.

I think I'm going to do something about this... I've been meaning to write an article over at 1000dollarfilm about how to avoid scams, because there have been a rash of really heinous ones recently.

However, I think I'm going to included "bogus" marketing techniques as well.

I mean this is the third "Oh, what you do think about this service, that I heard about" posting in the last two weeks.

On top of that, they are always for such incredibly lame, exploitative products... dodgy investment clubs, half-arsed online model agencies and ill-conceived self distribution services.

In fact, I think there's only been one straight forward pitch all this month, from eyesoda.com who is offering distribution by download, was completely up front about who she was, and that she was a start up and how small her current membership is... that site is really growing on me. In fact, I'm going to write about how brilliant she is... and promote her site for free.

There is a misconception held largely by idiots, about sales and marketing... people hear that "word of mouth" is the best marketing... and they are right, but because they are weasels, they think they can fake good word of mouth... but, the problem is reputations are built by delivering a good product... and no amount of saying "but it's made of gold" will ever put a shine, on what is essentially a turd.
Click to expand...

I am gravely disappointed about how you feel about me and my questions. I am in NO way a spammer, scam artist or any bogus thing you keep refering to me as. Forgive me then If I did not clear mark who I am.

My Name is Jet. I am the CEO and head of marketing for a new site that is currently in beta stage. Newfaces.com, hotornot.com, and plentyoffish are our competiors. I am in no way affilatted with Newfaces.com.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think you are claiming that I am an idoit among other ill reputed names that you seem to post on me. I hope you will withdraw those crude remarks because I have only the highest respect for people like Rik.

I am not pulling any strings here. This is not a scam or what not, this is my market research for people who be interested in using my free service compared to what Newfaces charges on agencies, producers and directors.

My site that is production is called HotVoc.com and is a photo ranking site where people submit photos of themselves and people vote if they are attractive by giving them points. It then ranks them from #1-etc. I was asking questions from people like you Rik to see if you would be interested in hiring such attractive people based on the fame they receive from the site. You said no.

There now you know my purpose, and who I am. To be called a scam and bogus and all the other names is hurtful. I even offered to give this paid service for free and have been meet with rejection.

The reason I ask instead of offer like eyecandy does is because eyecandy is already developed, I am still in the process of deciding if dating, photo ranking and modeling/acting go together.

I would be most greatful if you guys would join this service that I am providing but since I seem to have left a sour taste in this topic and in these words, I am sorry to all of you guys who feel I am abusing your experience and opinions for self interest, I am not.
 
Dude, I think you guys have a misunderstanding here. Jet (cool name BTW), reading your previous posts, it did come across a bit like you were hiding something. You laid down your hand in the last post, and it's clear that you were trying to gather market research without letting the subject know they were being researched. Though a bit creepy when revealed after, that's a lot less harmless than the alternative- marketing a product. But Clive has, like many of us, felt the bitter pang as they watch scammer after scammer suck n00bs into their idiotic scammy scams. I'm sick of them too. So everyone (smart enough to recognize them) has to be careful and play a game of poker on the web (not cyber poker, metaphorical poker).

There's too many "security" risks and anonymity and global-scale interactions in today's world, but there has to be some sort of way to be able to do these things without the fear, which leads to bitterness, and I think Clive, Oakstreet and Eyesoda have just figured it out.

Marketing, whether it be marketing of a product or market research, should be done from square one in an honest, straight-shooter, all cards on the table way.

Hi, I'm (insert real name).
I'm working with/for/as (insert company/website/whatever).
I need to ask you this, because of that, and I'd love for you to help me with (insert passion/project). Thank you.

You may not get lots of replies, but you'll get honest replies- some people really respect honesty and candor- and I do think there's a market for "honest business" out there. One that we can exploit the hell out of until we're rich and filthy as pigs.

So I gots no beef, Jet, but based on my observations on how people respond between someone like Eyesoda's campaign and some of the more "shady" of the posts that float around here, I'd say that there's enough Market Research there to walk out with a pretty solid plan.

And please PLEASE don't combine dating and modeling/acting. For the sake of the friggin' genepool, don't let the actors and models mingle.

-Dennis Logan-
 
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