Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

With a few CGI-monster exceptions, the film looked very good aesthetically.

I'm confused... which CGI character didn't you like? The little yellow lady or Snoak? Because those were the only people/creatures that were CGI. The rest were all traditional costuming. This was noted during production and was Abrams early attempt at pulling back the faith.

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Also... my thoughts. Did anyone else think that The Force Awakens totally eclipses the Trilogy Plotline of the previous two trilogies?

Originally the first movie was normally establishing the threat and the training of a Skywalker.

Did you feel a threat was established, is Snoak the threat?

Kylo Ren was defeated by nobodies. Is he the main character considering Ben Solo is the only young Skywalker? Is this really his training stage? Star Wars is a saga of the Skywalker family afterall.

Then you have the sphere destruction (this could be delayed off to the last film, but it'll be established certainly)

Wait what... they destroyed Star Killer already (horrible name btdubs). And Star Killer was so huge! It destroyed a whole system! (A system I certainly felt nothing for, was that the Senate?) And then it was destroyed, IN THE FIRST OF THREE MOVIES! Perhaps the biggest threat in Star Wars history... destroyed in the first of three movies.

Lastly you beat the bad guy (and destroy the sphere if not already)

Star Killer destroyed.... Kylo Ren beat up by two nobodies... Snoak must be the baddie. Ben is a horrible villain... I look at him more like an immature teenager than a Dark Lord


Last... a complaint

Snoak "Kylo, this will be the biggest challenge yet for you and your Knights of Ren."

WHERE THE HELL WHERE THE KNIGHTS OF REN?! IN A FREAKING VISION BY THE NOBODY CHICK FOR LIKE ONE SECOND?!
 
At least Attack of the Clones was GOING for character development. Attack of the Clones wasn't a glorified reboot of A New Hope, and Attack of the Clones made sense throughout. I wasn't left with a thousand questions during Attack of the Clones, I was just bored. With The Force Awakens, I was bored, angry, and could feel my childhood being raped.

And Box Office doesn't make a difference on a film's quality. Avatar is the highest grossing film ever and has not a single memorable moment in it and even the public was a solid: "Meh. It's Pretty. That's it."

It does if it relates to how enjoyable or exciting a film is. It might not be enjoyable and exciting to you. But if it is to THIS many people, then it must be doing something better than films that can't excite that many people. Otherwise they wouldn't be coming back for multiple viewings. Besides, Avatar was exciting to watch the first time, with 3D glasses. It was an unforgettable experience. It might not be re-watchable afterwards. But as a one time thing, it didn't disappoint. It was more about the spectacle than the story (which isn't wrong in certain special instances), and the story was basic and familiar, but passable.

Everybody and their brother has said that The Prequels ruined their childhood, because the only thing that remained from the original films were the lightsabers and a bit of the music. The tone wasn't there. The atmosphere wasn't there. The characters were flat and lifeless. Sure there was development I guess, but it's hard to like or care for any of them other than Obi-Wan and Palpatine. And the latter two prequels also look fake as hell due to the overabundance of CGI backgrounds and environments.

You are the first person I've seen or read who actually said TFA "raped" their childhood. That's sad.

The new film does nothing but glorify what made the original films great. Sure, it makes out Luke's story after Jedi to be a sad and tragic turn of events, and Han Solo dies. But these and other things had already sort of happened in the expanded universe novels before they were declared not-canon. How exactly can you construe that into something as horrible as rape?
 
I've said many times that I'm not a JJ Abrams fan, and he has met my expectations again.

As an individual consumer you can of course dismiss JJ Abrams, Michael Bay or whoever else takes your fancy. As a filmmaker, particularly an aspiring sci-fi filmmaker and especially an aspiring mogul, can you really afford to throw out the baby with the bath water? Are you just looking at story elements which you personally find disappointing, while missing/ignoring all those subtle filmmaking elements which are extremely difficult to execute and which make these directors so successful? As an aspiring filmmaking mogul, JJ Abrams deserves, at the VERY LEAST, your grudging respect!

That's not a very high standard to meet.

On the contrary, those prequels represented pretty much the very highest standard to meet! Personally, I was somewhat disappointed and felt they missed a potential opportunity. Nevertheless, I paid my money to watch them all and don't regret spending it. If you think those prequels are not of a standard worth meeting, then your standards are not aligned with those who paid billions to watch them, which is not an obviously auspicious position for an aspiring mogul to take!

And Box Office doesn't make a difference on a film's quality.

In practice, the exact opposite of this statement is generally true! The past box office of those involved in making the film and the projected box office of the completed film are what define the resources available to make the film and those resources of course define it's quality.

Avatar is the highest grossing film ever and has not a single memorable moment in it and even the public was a solid: "Meh. It's Pretty. That's it."

While I can appreciate why Avatar has it's detractors and that you're obviously one of them, that's no reason to deliberately misrepresent public opinion for your own ends. On IMDb Avatar has over 840,000 voters and an average score of 7.9, which is significantly higher than "meh" and "a solid" overall very good to excellent!

G
 
Did you feel a threat was established, is Snoak the threat?

Ben Solo/Kylo Ren starts out as an intimidating character. But the film properly works to establish that he is in fact a wanabe who still has some distance to go before he is anywhere near as strong, powerful, or even as emotionally in check and confident as Vader. He IS an immature teenager type, even though he's likely in his mid to late 20s. That is exactly the point. And I do feel that he will prove to be a threat later, because now he's been royally pissed off after being beaten by the aforementioned "nobody."

Is Snoke a threat? I don't know. We have yet to see what he can actually do. Did we consider the Emperor a threat in the first or second original film? Not entirely, we barely knew a thing about him until the opening of Jedi, when that Imperial Officer nearly crapped his pants in fear when Vader says "You can tell him that yourself when he arrives."

Then you have the sphere destruction (this could be delayed off to the last film, but it'll be established certainly)

I'll agree that it should have been mildly damaged, but should have then remained a lingering threat until the last film, when it's finally repaired and can potentially blow something else up. But I'm pretty sure J.J. and Lawrence Kasdan had to have made that sort of realization just as we all already have, but then also realized that they couldn't leave it lingering for a meaningful reason. They wouldn't have blown it up early without a purpose. Hell, maybe director Rian Johnson had a talk with both of them, and all three of them decided that for Rian's film, having a lingering Starkiller Base just wouldn't have worked out for Episode VIII.

It's entirely possible.

Lastly you beat the bad guy (and destroy the sphere if not already)

He's "A" bad guy. Just like with Darth Maul, he's A bad guy. At least this time they don't slice him in half and make it look like he died. Even though Darth Maul did come back in The Clone Wars TV series.


Last... a complaint

Snoak "Kylo, this will be the biggest challenge yet for you and your Knights of Ren."

WHERE THE HELL WHERE THE KNIGHTS OF REN?! IN A FREAKING VISION BY THE NOBODY CHICK FOR LIKE ONE SECOND?![/SPOILER]

Did the Knights of Ren have to be in this film? Would they have offered anything of use to the plot if they were? Sure, they could have helped Kylo out of his scrape with Finn and Rey, but then that would have made his side of the equation all too easy. And Kylo probably felt that he didn't need the other Knights around because he felt he was strong enough to take on anyone, because he has a lot of ego-centric, self-important, entitlement, and self-conscious issues.

In the modern canon, thanks to the new "Star Wars: Rebels" series, it's revealed that there was an entire league of what were called Inquisitors: dark Jedis or pseudo Siths (not proper Siths) who served the Empire as special operatives who hunted down and/or destroyed unwanted individuals. Darth Vader was then of course the head honcho of this order of Inquisitors because he actually was a Sith Lord. However, as we see in the original film--if it is to be believed that these Inquisitors either still existed or were all destroyed by that time--Darth Vader can get around pretty well just by himself. Therefore, even though Kylo had an entire group of other dark Jedis around him to back him up, he likely felt he didn't need them during the events of "The Force Awakens." But, we will very likely see them in the second film, and find out who some or all of them are/were.
 
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Did the Knights of Ren have to be in this film? Would they have offered anything of use to the plot if they were?

Then why did Snoak mention it'd be a challenge for Kylo AND his Knights of Ren? Isn't that then pointless dialogue that's also misleading to the coming events?

Of course, Snoak wasn't referring to Finn and Rey, he was referring to Han Solo (and I presume that included Chewie and the assumption he'd have a crew?) being the challenge for Kylo.

If they weren't going to include the Knights in the film, they should have left that line out and just said Kylo Ren. I think a more accurate reason is that the Knights of Ren fell on the cutting room floor.

Filmmaker said:
;407449]
In the modern canon, thanks to the new "Star Wars: Rebels" series, it's revealed that there was an entire league of what were called Inquisitors: dark Jedis or pseudo Siths (not proper Siths) who served the Empire as special operatives who hunted down and/or destroyed unwanted individuals.

Indeed, Vader did have the Inquisitors. Also that Star Wars: Rebels was retconned as it was created prior to the Disney take-over. The Inquisitors are retconned. (Unless the new cartoons reintroduce them).

However, the Knights of Ren are also retconned characters. In the expanded universe they were the collectors of Sith artifacts. They protected the holograms and temples of the Sith. Having them return as Kylo's soldiers could perhaps still be the same Knights, and Vader's helmet could be part of that artifact collection and how he got his saber.

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There is a lot of mystery to this new Trilogy in the Saga... but a lot rides on currently highly criticized characters and events...
 
Then why did Snoak mention it'd be a challenge for Kylo AND his Knights of Ren? Isn't that then pointless dialogue that's also misleading to the coming events?

Of course, Snoak wasn't referring to Finn and Rey, he was referring to Han Solo (and I presume that included Chewie and the assumption he'd have a crew?) being the challenge for Kylo.

If they weren't going to include the Knights in the film, they should have left that line out and just said Kylo Ren. I think a more accurate reason is that the Knights of Ren fell on the cutting room floor.



Indeed, Vader did have the Inquisitors. Also that Star Wars: Rebels was retconned as it was created prior to the Disney take-over. The Inquisitors are retconned. (Unless the new cartoons reintroduce them).

However, the Knights of Ren are also retconned characters. In the expanded universe they were the collectors of Sith artifacts. They protected the holograms and temples of the Sith. Having them return as Kylo's soldiers could perhaps still be the same Knights, and Vader's helmet could be part of that artifact collection and how he got his saber.

--------------

There is a lot of mystery to this new Trilogy in the Saga... but a lot rides on currently highly criticized characters and events...

Star Wars: Rebels I thought was created after the Disney take-over as a new production which would start fresh and build it's own canon between movie Episodes III and IV. But whatever the case, everything in Star Wars: Rebels IS canon, including the "reintroduced" Inquisitors, if they existed in previous literature. And apparently that also goes for the Knights of Ren. The Lucas Film team has free reign to grab any previous elements from the now called Legends Universe, if they so choose. The point of making all of that old stuff no longer canon, though, was to wipe the slate clean, and to build a proper and "official" team of creatives who would make sure that all of the current and future canon would remain consistent, even if new canonized elements are based on old material from older books, games, tv shows, etc.

I also don't think it was wrong to mention the Knights of Ren in this film, even if they weren't going to show them, because they can easily bring them in later. The reason they fell on the cutting room floor this time is because their scenes clearly caused some focus issues, and may have eluded to specific information that they didn't want to make concrete yet: perhaps about Luke Skywalker's former Jedi school that turned bad. The producers of this film want to leave enough open ended pieces so that Rian Johnson can take the helm and tell the story that he thinks is the best to tell, rather than lay out the entire story up front. Which could breed some fantastic material and some exciting surprises.
 
The past box office of those involved in making the film and the projected box office of the completed film are what define the resources available to make the film and those resources of course define it's quality.
G

Again, that isn't what makes a film good, and resources do NOT define a film's quality. They merely help a film get produced. A $100,000 budget didn't make Pluto Nash good, so you really don't have a point to make here. You just hate indie films, you've made it your duty to tell this forum that time and time again.

I remember at some point in the past you stating your dislike of Adam Sandler films. If Box Office defined the likability of a movie, then by your own standards, you should be a huge fan.


On IMDb Avatar has over 840,000 voters and an average score of 7.9, which is significantly higher than "meh" and "a solid" overall very good to excellent!G

Oh, I forgot that IMDb is the ultimate source for public opinion.
 
Star Wars: Rebels I thought was created after the Disney take-over

My mistake! It totally did. I was thinking of one of the other Star Wars animated cartoons haha, my bad.

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Yea... I'm also kinda meh about Disney's different director for each installment style... They do it with Marvel and now Star Wars... Marvel, okay it kinda makes sense that's super long term and loosely connecting pieces anyways. But Star Wars? That's only 3 movies all coming out (supposedly) within a year of each other telling a very solid storyline. Why have different directors for each one?

Let's look at Harry Potter for example. Those movies all came out in rapid succession in a way. Four directors. If you were to sit down and watch all the movies in close proximity of each other (like with breaks and stuff cause that's a lot of hours of footage), you would clearly see the transitions in style from director to director.

Do you know the story good enough? Watch 2 - 5 in order. You'll have gone from all 4 directors and each one feels different. 1 and 2 you'll see have a very easy feel about them, once you get to 5 on ward you feel like everything is urgent and moving quickly. 3 and 4 don't fit in, it's like a rough patch as those directors were in and out. Only those movies have their unique feeling.

The What-Ever-They-Call-This Trilogy of Star Wars won't have a defined style, it'll be like the 3rd and 4th Harry Potter films, just rough to watch together. Granted, they'll feel pretty fresh when you first watch them a year apart from each other.
 
Everybody and their brother has said that The Prequels ruined their childhood, because the only thing that remained from the original films were the lightsabers and a bit of the music. The tone wasn't there. The atmosphere wasn't there. The characters were flat and lifeless. Sure there was development I guess, but it's hard to like or care for any of them other than Obi-Wan and Palpatine. And the latter two prequels also look fake as hell due to the overabundance of CGI backgrounds and environments.


I felt the only thing remaining from the original films in TFA were the lightsabers and the stormtroopers. It didn't feel like Star Wars at all, it felt like an overbudgeted fan fiction with characters far more lifeless than even Anakin Skywalker.

The problems you point out with the prequels I completely agree with. I do not think the prequels are good, by any standards, but I do think they blow TFA out of the water.

The only things I enjoyed in TFA were Rey (though mostly the idea of a female protagonist, which Star Wars strongly needs) and a few of the dogfight sequences that we see on the planet where
Rey gets kidnapped

How exactly can you construe that into something as horrible as rape?

It's called hyperbole. I disliked it because I was expecting something at least up to par with the prequels, not because
Han died. Han felt dead the moment he said his first line, it was clear he didn't want to be there. Plus, I was expecting his death the moment it was established he was traveling with the characters to the new Death Star. The film was a carbon copy, glorified reboot of A New Hope and Han was clearly taking the place of Obi Wan.

Finally, there were SOOO MANY problems with the plot and characters, including but not limited to;

They have no goal they're working toward other than finding Luke. They never say WHY they're looking for Luke.

Is the First Order the SAME as the Empire? It never tells or shows how powerful they are in the Galaxy, nor the Resistance. Why are their names changed anyway? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!!?

Why is it a blatant copy of the first star wars? EVERY. SINGLE. PLOT POINT.

Why does Finn act like a Disney Channel sitcom Character?

Why doesn't Kylo actually use the Force when it's convenient for the heroes? He refuses to use it unless it'll make no impact on the story. I guess the power of the script outweighs the power of the force.

Why didn't it feel like Star Wars? Why did it feel like a parody or a bad youtube fan film?

Why does lazy writing always end up going the "by total coincidence" route, CONSTANTLY!? Like finding the Millennium Falcon, for example. That kind of stuff happened a lot in this film. Like when R2-Wall_E is brought along to that bar, conveniently allowing for them to be identified and reported to the First Order.


Why is Finn a coward, but the moment a girl he's known for a little over an hour gets kidnapped, suddenly he decides to become a hero?

Who the hell is Snoke? Everyone else in this world seems to know who he is, so why don't they care to explain it to the audience? Why did they build a gigantic room just to house a hologram for him?


MANY other questions exist, but this all I could think of out of memory, and I don't really care anymore anyway. Like I said, I'm just surprised that any Star Wars fans liked it. Abrams has ruined Star Trek AND Star Wars. What's next? Stargate? Starsky and Hutch? Dancing With The Stars?
 
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But Star Wars? That's only 3 movies all coming out (supposedly) within a year of each other telling a very solid storyline. Why have different directors for each one?

You do remember the original trilogy was like that, right?

First it was George Lucas, then it was Irving Kirshner, and then it was Richard Marquand. The different director for Empire dramatically improved the level of urgency and seriousness in the story, the drama in the character interactions, and the compelling nature of character motivations, which ultimately made that film a masterpiece: something which I highly doubt George would have been able to do as well as Irving did.

George may have directed all three Prequel films. But the unfortunate issue with those is that The Phantom Menace looks almost nothing like Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith. Clones and Sith look similar enough to each other. But the fact that Phantom still uses real sets and practical effects causes it to look like a reasonable sequel to the original films, whereas the other two prequels look completely alien by comparison.

I'm personally of the mind that a different director each time makes it much more likely that each film will be as strong as possible. You still roll the dice as to whether or not the chosen director can make the right choices. But is also allows each film the best chance it has of approaching things in a better way then the last, if the last made some major mistakes, that a different creative mind could then work out.

All of the Star Trek films were directed by different people. The first was a mess in the script, even though veteran Robert Wise helmed the film's direction. Nicholas Meyer made The Wrath of Khan a masterpiece, but then he kind of made The Search for Spock a lame followup by comparison, save for the scene where they hijack the Enterprise. The rest was kind of goofy and lacked the same seriousness and class as Khan. Then Leonard Nimoy got the chance to direct, and he managed to take the fish-out-of-water time-travel cliche work really well for Star Trek, when it had been so terrible in films like Beastmaster 2 and Masters of the Universe.

Each film has it's own voice, it's own take on the universe. Some directors are just better at certain stories and certain motifs than others. So it's sometimes not the best idea to have one person running them all. Besides, JJ was the best person to do The Force Awakens because of everything it needed to achieve. But he has other aspirations, other projects he wants to work on, and he probably wants to be back with his family for a while. So it'd be asking a lot to have him direct all three after being pulled out of Star Trek to do it, after having done two of those as well.

Let's look at Harry Potter for example. Those movies all came out in rapid succession in a way. Four directors. If you were to sit down and watch all the movies in close proximity of each other (like with breaks and stuff cause that's a lot of hours of footage), you would clearly see the transitions in style from director to director.

Do you know the story good enough? Watch 2 - 5 in order. You'll have gone from all 4 directors and each one feels different. 1 and 2 you'll see have a very easy feel about them, once you get to 5 on ward you feel like everything is urgent and moving quickly. 3 and 4 don't fit in, it's like a rough patch as those directors were in and out. Only those movies have their unique feeling.

I actually felt like the Harry Potter films were handled reasonably well. The story starts out as a magical adventure for a very special young kid who discovers he's a wizard. So the movie needed a bright and colorful atmosphere with only a fair amount of darkness and danger. Then as the films went on, the style and atmosphere got darker, bleaker, more mature, until finally it just got grim and grey, exactly what it needed to be given how dire the situations were by that point. And I thought three and four were perfect transitional stories as well. Three was a tad darker than four, so it was a bit in reverse, but they still kept the gradient transition going in a particular direction. And WB likely chose their directors for each because of this goal to make each installment more serious and gritty than the last.

The What-Ever-They-Call-This Trilogy of Star Wars won't have a defined style, it'll be like the 3rd and 4th Harry Potter films, just rough to watch together. Granted, they'll feel pretty fresh when you first watch them a year apart from each other.

I also think you're wrong about this. The style of production design, color, and general adventurous mood has been beautifully established. And just like how dozens of directors will helm a TV series, the basic style of production will not change, because many other people who stay on consistently will be in charge of those departments. The only thing that will change is the script and the approach to shot design. But since JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan worked closely with Rian Johnson (perhaps more closely than most people in their transitional position) there's likely to be much more consistency here than there was in Harry Potter. Because Chris Columbus did not actively converse with Alfonso Cuarón before he came on to make the third film so that the style of the films would remain the same. Nor did Alfonso Cuaron converse with Mike Newell before he came on to do the fourth film, at least not enough to continue consistency and drive a linear progression of one film to the other. They all worked independently. However, that's not what's going on with Star Wars. It's much more important to retain the look and the feel here than it was for Potter. So I think they're taking the necessary steps to ensure a connective and matching trilogy. The directing style and cinematic look of JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, and Colin Trevorrow are also a lot closer than they are with other directors. So Kathleen Kenedy and Disney have chosen their three helmsmen rather wisely because of this.
 
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Why didn't it feel like Star Wars? Why did it feel like a parody or a bad youtube fan film?

If THIS movie. The Force Awakens. Was ACTUALLY a youtube fan film.... I think you would be stunned by it. I would be stunned by it. The people behind it would no longer be youtube content creators, that's for sure.
 
Again, that isn't what makes a film good, and resources do NOT define a film's quality.

Let me get this straight, are you seriously saying that none of the equipment or facilities used or talent, skill, knowledge or experience (of those making the film) has any effect whatsoever on a film's quality? That's a bizarre position to take.

... you really don't have a point to make here. You just hate indie films, you've made it your duty to tell this forum that time and time again.

By deliberately misrepresenting the facts and trying to be as utterly wrong as it's humanly possible to be, what point exactly are you trying to make?! Case in point: I have worked with indie filmmakers and indie production companies, making indie films/programs for over 20 years. I love my job, I love making films, I'm thankful every day that I'm fortunate enough to make my living doing what I love. I can't even imagine a way to be more wrong than stating that I hate indie films!! What a strange person you are.

Oh, I forgot that IMDb is the ultimate source for public opinion.

Do you know a source with a larger sample size of public opinion for Avatar?

G
 
Back in the real world, everyone I know enjoyed the movie. This ranges from teenage girls (I have a teen daughter) to 'normal' people to guys like me who saw the original in a cinema.

Sure, it didn't have the same impact as the original but my memory of the first one was 'wow, I've never seen anything like this before, this is the most incredible movie I've ever seen!!!!!' But that was the 70s when home consisted of a black and white TV the size of a computer screen with only three channels, parafin oil to heat the flat during the strikes and literally no technology. No home computers, mobile phones, Satnav / GPS, nothing and if we wanted music, we had a record player or if we wanted to write, there was a clunky old typewriter in a corner which dated back to the 50s.

But we didn't care as we had 'Star Wars.' It was like nothing else we'd ever seen and just the concept of a light sabre was mind blowing. It was incredible and a gigantic step up from anything else we'd ever seen.

So this was never going to be as good as the original but I thought it was a good movie.
 
resources do NOT define a film's quality. They merely help a film get produced.

It really depends on what you call resources. I tend to define resources as more than just money. It's a collection of everything. Money, equipment, intellectual property and most importantly the people, their talent/expertise and the people who bring all that together.

I suspect you mean money. Just because people throw money at a movie doesn't mean it will succeed. That point I will agree. I believe movies are more than just a price tag. You can have a great movie and still have it make no money and you can have ordinary movies make ungodly wads of cash.

Back to the Star Wars conversation. One thing I can say. I'd love to see the directors cut. I understand it was rather long and may have been a much better movie for all we know. Maybe. Maybe not.
 
Nicholas Meyer made The Wrath of Khan a masterpiece, but then he kind of made The Search for Spock a lame followup by comparison

Leonard Nimoy directed THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK and THE VOYAGE HOME.


I felt the only thing remaining from the original films in TFA were the lightsabers and the stormtroopers. It didn't feel like Star Wars at all

I was 13, when STAR WARS came out. My wife was 11. We both felt that TFA was the first movie, in a long time, that actually felt like STAR WARS. No Jar Jar, no midichlorians. The were back to two hands on the light sabers, lots of practical creature effects and sets, and TIE fighters. We thought Han and Chewy were fantastic!

Fortunately, I read several IMDB reviews, ahead of time. I was expecting a remake of the original, but I was really happy with just how much was actually new.


I'm just surprised that any Star Wars fans liked it. Abrams has ruined Star Trek AND Star Wars.

It wasn't perfect, but I had a lot of fun seeing THE FORCE AWAKENS 3 times, the first week. Also, I like JJ's STAR TREK reboots as much or more than STAR WARS movies, and I'm one of those fans who grew up with both franchises. Then again, I also liked AVATAR. :lol:
 
Leonard Nimoy directed THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK and THE VOYAGE HOME.

That's right. My bad.

I thought I remembered from a documentary that he wanted to direct it, but they didn't let him because they weren't sure they were willing to let him take the job yet. But what they actually did was give him the chair, but not the creative control over the story or script yet.
 
If THIS movie. The Force Awakens. Was ACTUALLY a youtube fan film.... I think you would be stunned by it. I would be stunned by it.

^ This!

I'm not sure exactly why, but many indie filmmakers (plus some critics and aficionados) seem to either have double standards and/or to just entirely miss the point of theatrical filmmaking. They will slam an expertly executed blockbuster and in the next breath lavishly praise an essentially amateur film which is not even competently executed ... why is this? Is it just simple envy? Is it a blinkered focus on the script, on stimulating the intellect, on photography, on some arbitrary classical notions of "art" of these or some other filmmaking crafts, while entirely missing the fundamental visceral nature of a blockbuster as a whole and the skill/art that requires? Maybe it's too much respect for the most successful filmmaking personnel and too much expectation of what a $200m budget really allows in practise? Or maybe, it's some combination of the above?

Even staunchly art-house only filmmakers will usually express an ultimate desire to have their films seen and appreciated by audiences wider than just a few other art-house filmmakers and aficionados but at the same time denigrate, refuse to acknowledge, ignore or simply be ignorant of the techniques, art and skills of those who have proven themselves to be amongst the very best on the planet at being seen and appreciated by wider audiences.

G
 
^ This!

I'm not sure exactly why, but many indie filmmakers (plus some critics and aficionados) seem to either have double standards and/or to just entirely miss the point of theatrical filmmaking. They will slam an expertly executed blockbuster and in the next breath lavishly praise an essentially amateur film which is not even competently executed ... why is this? Is it just simple envy? Is it a blinkered focus on the script, on stimulating the intellect, on photography, on some arbitrary classical notions of "art" of these or some other filmmaking crafts, while entirely missing the fundamental visceral nature of a blockbuster as a whole and the skill/art that requires? Maybe it's too much respect for the most successful filmmaking personnel and too much expectation of what a $200m budget really allows in practise? Or maybe, it's some combination of the above?

Even staunchly art-house only filmmakers will usually express an ultimate desire to have their films seen and appreciated by audiences wider than just a few other art-house filmmakers and aficionados but at the same time denigrate, refuse to acknowledge, ignore or simply be ignorant of the techniques, art and skills of those who have proven themselves to be amongst the very best on the planet at being seen and appreciated by wider audiences.

G

^ This!

I've seen at least a dozen fan-films of varying nature and of varying franchises. My favorite fan-film is "Batman: Evolution," which I enjoyed a lot because of it's creative take on how the Batman of the 60s could have morphed into the Batman of the 1980s/2000s. My least favorite fan-film, however, is the "Sonic Fan Film" by Blue Core Studios. The reason I don't like it... it looks goofy as hell.

You can't take the Sonic Fan Film seriously. It's too dependent on the Sonic Adventure games with all of the human characters living among anthropomorphized rodents and birds and such. The CGI looks like garbage, especially on Sonic himself. The animation is loose and rough and has no weight to it. And the filmmaking style is heavily post-processed to the point where it looks like every other cheap action film or fan-film that wants to look intense and "modern." It tries so hard to look dark, serious, and gritty, that it completely lacks the fun, excitement, and the colorful joy that I'm sure millions of fans loved experiencing when playing the original SEGA Genesis games. And I would think if someone wanted to honestly make a Sonic fan film, one that paid tribute to the things that made the franchise great, they would have mimicked the original games, and not the most recent games/Sonic-X.

My point is, even Fan films has the potential to get things terribly wrong, or approach things in a way that is not favorable to the majority of fans. But... Star Wars: The Force Awakens is a little different.

While fan films are made by still amateur directors and editors who usually don't have serious credentials under their belts, The Force Awakens is one of the first high-profile productions that has been helmed by someone who was a big big fan of the original franchise. But not only that, he knows how to make a film, how to do it effectively, and how to say what needs to be said so that the largest audience gets what they need, and so the fans also get what they need, because he himself is one. What I'm saying is, J.J. Abrams has self-control: he has a realistic filter with which to look through and to judge all of the decisions that he makes with films like this, whereas most fan filmmakers either don't need one or don't want one. You may not agree with this, considering all of the referrencial nods and gags that have been in both Star Treks and The Force Awakens. But I would argue that the prequels already did plenty nods to the original films, mainly through dialogue and catch-phrases. The Force Awakens was no different.

So if The Force Awakens was indeed a Youtube fan film, in every single aspect and respect that we saw in theaters, then it would be the single greatest fan film in history. And that would make it a pretty damn big deal anyway. So no matter how you spin it, it did it's job. And you really can't argue with a film that makes this much money, this much publicity, inspires this much discussion, and makes this much of an impact on the public consciousness. People are going back 3, 4, 6, 10 times because of how amazing it was to them. And the following Star Wars films are sure to make a similar impact simply because of what they are, and how carefully Kathleen Kennedy and Lucas Film are plotting out their future course, with who will captain each film, who will write each film, and who will star in each film. This is a very important franchise to run, and they aren't about to make it mediocre just because they can, even if audiences would come regardless.
 
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I've said many times that I'm not a JJ Abrams fan, and he has met my expectations again. :no:



When he did Star Trek, he had nothing but iconic references and stole scenes out of previous movies. Now, he's done the same.

There is even a scene taken from the opening scene of the first Indiana Jones movie, and, of course, he has a giant planet destroyer ... which can be destroyed by the rebel fighters attacking a small node in the complex. I would have thought that, after going through three of these, the engineers and architects for the Empire would have figured it out.

As a hard-core sci-fi fan, JJ Abrams did not deal with the obvious flaw in having a death star - any interstellar civilization can destroy a planet by forcing the planet's sun to go nova.

I also don't buy the idea of the female scavenger - and one of the lead characters - figuring out how to fly the Millenium Falcon, and I'm not overly impressed by her ability to take up a light saber and beat a senior Dark Force Lord, who would obviously have been far more experienced in handling the weapon.

That said, it's not a bad movie, but it's just not a good movie. There were scenes that were fun to watch, and the action sequences were good, especially when the rebel fighters came to the rescue of Han Solo, Chewie and company. But it's obviously not in the League of The Empire Strikes Back.

"it wasnt bad but i didnt like it" do you have a point or are you going to be hypocritical and on the fence your whole life. people like you... Look dorks there was little to no cgi. That should have surprised your expectations in the first place. good nuff for these days. Impressive actually
 
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