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Should I edit my film with headphones on?

H

HunterF

I'm editing my first film. So far I've been editing it without wearing headphones, I've just been playing the audio through my laptop speakers (which aren't super high quality). Tonight I tried editing while wearing my very high quality headphones and I don't know if it's just cause I'm tired but while wearing the headphones the whole rythm of the movie seemed a little off, it didn't really click the way it did when I was watching it with my laptop speakers.

Should I re-edit the movie while wearing headphones? I doubt anyone's actually going to wear headphones while watching it though, so I'm not sure what to do
 
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In an optimal situation you shouldn't do either. I suggest at a minimum you go out and get yourself some 3.1 speakers (or 5.1) and use them. While even that isn't optimal, it's better to simulate what a lot of people will be using to watch than using crappy laptop stereo speakers or the headphones.

I'm sure APE/Alcove will speak up on the topic and explain why I'm wrong ;)
 
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While editing the film using headphones is fine. When mixing the sound though, the only time you should use headphones is if all your audience will also always be wearing headphones!

So, Sweetie is essentially correct. The problem lies with the statement "simulate what a lot of people will be using...". At least 50% of what you hear from speakers is the room acoustics, so you either build rooms with identical acoustic properties to the listening environment of all your audience, which is obviously impractical or you effectively build a "mastering" suite, which gets very expensive. No way around this ultimately, without lots of money but certainly decent speakers are better for mixing sound than headphones or laptop speakers.

G
 
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I'm just wondering what you mean by "the whole rythm of the movie seemed a little off."

You're just editing the visuals, correct? If the cans (headphones) are of decent quality you're probably hearing all of the myriad problems with the sound, which is much lessened when listening on the crappy laptop speakers. The better sound quality is pulling you out of the film when you hear all the imperfections.

It doesn't really matter what your listening medium is when you do visual editing, although some good speakers are preferable. Lots of pro visual editing houses use Blue Sky eXo2 or Media Desk 5 speaker systems in their editing suites; they're decently priced and sound good. When you start the audio editing your listening environment plays a huge role. You can edit in stereo - but a pair of decent speakers is really called for! When you mix you need a venue that duplicates your delivery medium (theatrical, DVD, internet, etc.)

I don't really care for headphones - I get ear fatigue much too quickly, even with nice cans. That's one of the many reasons you get quality speakers - to avoid the ear fatigue that comes with concentrated listening for 10 hours a day.
 
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HunterF said:
I'm editing my first film. So far I've been editing it without wearing headphones, I've just been playing the audio through my laptop speakers (which aren't super high quality). Tonight I tried editing while wearing my very high quality headphones and I don't know if it's just cause I'm tired but while wearing the headphones the whole rythm of the movie seemed a little off, it didn't really click the way it did when I was watching it with my laptop speakers.

Should I re-edit the movie while wearing headphones? I doubt anyone's actually going to wear headphones while watching it though, so I'm not sure what to do
Click to expand...

If you're talking laptop speakers vs. headphones - really use both. But, like has been stated before it's absolutely necessary to reference what you are working on on a real set of quality speakers. You must take into account how people will be watching and listening to what you are working on. People will probably hear your piece mostly on TVs, through nice HiFi systems or even theaters. But in this day and age, you cannot discount how many times it will be played on a laptop or listened to on headphones. I see people watch movies all the time on their iPads using headphones, so it's valid to reference on them. However, being an audio mixer I can say from experience we never ever solely rely on laptop speakers and / or headphones to check the quality of our work. It's important to hear what you are working on in full fidelity; and laptop speakers certainly can't do that. Headphones may give you better frequency response, however often if something is mixed completely on headphones it sounds wrong though speakers. If you are having difficulty getting your hands on decent speakers, I recommend finding a nice inexpensive boom box type radio. I have a great inexpensive one from Altec ( the IMT620 ) that has 1/8" inputs and an iphone doc. I use it all the time to reference mixes. It's tiny, lightweight and even rechargeable. I don't recommend using it for a final mix but if you have no other options, using a good boom box is a nice inexpensive way to reference what you are working on.

Hope this helps!
 
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It depends what type of editing you're looking at.

I'm an editor, so I don't really focus on sound fixing etc, I work with postproduction sound departments on that.

If you are having problem with flow as you've described, when you are editing, just focus on telling the story with images with no sound involved, you must understand the order or pictures before anything else, sound is irrelevant if the pictures dont flow and tell a story.

When cutting interviews and listening in at vital audio conversations, I use a pair of cheap range Sennheiser headphones, which are good enough for editing, I can pick up all the detail I need in the sound.
 
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HunterF said:
I'm editing my first film...
Click to expand...
Who's going to be watching & listening to this first film?

Is this going onto youtube where MOST people will be listening to it with mediocre headphones, cr@ppy laptop speakers, or normal out-of-the-box $30 desktop speakers?
Yes? Then that's what you should use to edit the original with.
Frankly, do both: headphones + desktop speakers, then do the best compromise you can between both.

Is this going for film festival screenings where there's no telling what the screeners are going to be using to listen to your DVD or withoutabox download?
Then you probably ought to follow the advice above.

Is this for DVD or VOD distribution?
Then for sure you'll need to edit audio with some industry grade headphones + studio monitors (not speakers!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_monitor
http://www.ehow.com/facts_6761593_studio-monitor-vs_-computer-speaker.html
And edit for 3.1 & 5.1 surround sound.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081023084259AAjgZWW
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_3.1_surround-sound

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/audition/cs/using/WS2bacbdf8d487e582474d57d512e2c5496d1-8000.html
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/surround-sound-in-fcpx/
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/surround_sound_mixing_in_vegas_and_acid


It all depends upon who is going to be listening to it from where.
 
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rayw said:
Is this going onto youtube where MOST people will be listening to it with mediocre headphones, cr@ppy laptop speakers, or normal out-of-the-box $30 desktop speakers?
Yes? Then that's what you should use to edit the original with.
Frankly, do both: headphones + desktop speakers, then do the best compromise you can between both.
Click to expand...

For editing you might get away with it but for mixing there are unfortunately at least two serious problems with this approach:

1. There is no one "normal out of the box desktop speaker", crappy laptop speaker or mediocre headphones. There are many brands and models for each of these categories and they are not crappy or mediocre for the same reasons. By this I mean that using mediocre headphones is a waste of time as a reference because those mediocre headphones are not representative of the sound of other mediocre headphones. For example, one mediocre set of headphones might massively overhype the bass, causing you to mix with too little bass. Another set of mediocre headphones might have a very weak bass response and your mix, which already has too little bass, will sound terrible. Exactly the same is true of crappy laptop speakers and cheap desktop speakers.

2. When it comes to speakers or monitors, to a large extent the quality of their reproduction is irrelevant! By the time you're a few feet away from the speakers you are not really hearing much of the speakers/monitors anymore, you're hearing more of the acoustics of the room in which the speakers are placed and this massively alters the frequency output of the speakers. This in turn massively alters the way you perceive what you are hearing and dramatically affects how you will EQ, process and mix it. Decent quality speakers/monitors only produce decent quality sound in a room with decent quality acoustics, period!

In both of these cases, using mediocre or crappy equipment to mix because the audience is using crappy equipment for playback does not result in the two crappies cancelling each other out, in probably the majority of cases it will result in the two crappies compounding and a mix which sounds half as good as crappy!!!

G
 
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You should at some point test listening through several different speakers. Big studios are able to toggle through several of the different types of speakers that consumers are going to hear your movie through. Actually the MOST IMPORTANT speaker is the lower common denominator.... Mr. Crappy! That little 2 inch TV speaker on a 15" TV set. That little speaker will bring out problems like low end distortion that needs to be notched out.
 
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