A decent size model train with rails may be a smoother solution to a RC Truck. The track will add stability.
Shooting A Model Spaceship
- Thread starter Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC
- Start date
That ship reminds me of Babylon 5
(The Earth reminds me of Thunderbirds like stuff
)Where do you get the models?
Ray that strange.blue light is the sun for the earth like planet Delta Four. Three cyborgs who survived the humans of Earth go there after the humans of Earth ended themselves with a nuclear war. I wanted the sun to look different so it would not be confused with Earth.
A couple notes
GREEN SPILL
In order to keep the green from spilling on your spaceship, get it as far away from the ship as possible (15' is a good rule-of-thumb). Also, keep the GS flat, don't use a curved screen, and keep the screen perpendicular to direction the camera is pointing.
MOVING THE CAMERA
A couple reasons you might consider to not move the camera to simulate spaceship movement:
- Sometimes, parallax can result in accidentally shooting off the GS. Then, you'll need to roto.
- Imagine you are doing a shot where the ship needs to make a sharp turn. Instead of turning the ship you dolly the camera around it to simulate the ship's changing orientation. Your lights will also need to move with the camera, or the light sources will appear to be moving in the final composite.
MOVING THE MODEL
If you are moving the model, keep you lights as far as possible so you get straight/hard lighting. If the lights are too close, the ship could move past a light and thus from front- the rear- lighting during a shot.
GREEN SPILL
In order to keep the green from spilling on your spaceship, get it as far away from the ship as possible (15' is a good rule-of-thumb). Also, keep the GS flat, don't use a curved screen, and keep the screen perpendicular to direction the camera is pointing.
MOVING THE CAMERA
A couple reasons you might consider to not move the camera to simulate spaceship movement:
- Sometimes, parallax can result in accidentally shooting off the GS. Then, you'll need to roto.
- Imagine you are doing a shot where the ship needs to make a sharp turn. Instead of turning the ship you dolly the camera around it to simulate the ship's changing orientation. Your lights will also need to move with the camera, or the light sources will appear to be moving in the final composite.
MOVING THE MODEL
If you are moving the model, keep you lights as far as possible so you get straight/hard lighting. If the lights are too close, the ship could move past a light and thus from front- the rear- lighting during a shot.
Ray’s point being that we see the light source regardless of what
YOU call it or how it relates to your story - WE see a light source.
And because we see the light source we expect the ship to be in
silhouette and it isn’t. I looks as if there is a brighter light source
at the one o’clock position.
This subtly upsets the illusion and throws even the untraind eye off.
Few people will be able to tell you why it seems off, but they will know
it’s off.
It’s a good thing you’re completely redoing this effect. It's a fine first
but it looks like a first effort and not a finished shot.
MODEL MOUNTS
MONOFILAMENT
If look at your image of the model, you'll see that some mono is on 'our side' of the model, resulting in parts of the spaceship being occluded by the string. This is a problem that will require tons of patching and fixing in the comp.
PYLON
A common technique is to mount the model on a pylon that is colored green/blue. It will need some internal, or carefully flagged external, lighting so it still can be keyed-out. The pylon should be mounted behind the silhouette of the model so as not to block the model, or it's lighting during the shot. The trick is how to mount the pylon, because it will need to be in different locations when shooting the model from different angles. There are a million ways to do this, but ultimately, the mounting system would want to be integrated in the design of the model prior to construction.
ONE LAST THOUGHT: When it comes to mounting your model, gravity is often your enemy, so don't forget you can shoot straight-up and straight-down on the model. This opens all kinds of new mounting options.
ANOTHER LAST THOUGHT: If you want the space ship to wiggle around (turbulence), but still want it to look heavy, you should shoot high speed (slomo). This requires testing camera speeds (or retiming in post), and the amplitude you wiggle the model.
CGI
When it comes to shooting models, the list of things you need to plan for is extensive. If you make a mistake with a miniature shoot, it's a complete redo. CGI is flexible / iterative, and as a result the go-to tool for today's filmmakers. Is it expensive? Well, it's not free that's for sure. You often get what you paid for.
MONOFILAMENT
If look at your image of the model, you'll see that some mono is on 'our side' of the model, resulting in parts of the spaceship being occluded by the string. This is a problem that will require tons of patching and fixing in the comp.
PYLON
A common technique is to mount the model on a pylon that is colored green/blue. It will need some internal, or carefully flagged external, lighting so it still can be keyed-out. The pylon should be mounted behind the silhouette of the model so as not to block the model, or it's lighting during the shot. The trick is how to mount the pylon, because it will need to be in different locations when shooting the model from different angles. There are a million ways to do this, but ultimately, the mounting system would want to be integrated in the design of the model prior to construction.
ONE LAST THOUGHT: When it comes to mounting your model, gravity is often your enemy, so don't forget you can shoot straight-up and straight-down on the model. This opens all kinds of new mounting options.
ANOTHER LAST THOUGHT: If you want the space ship to wiggle around (turbulence), but still want it to look heavy, you should shoot high speed (slomo). This requires testing camera speeds (or retiming in post), and the amplitude you wiggle the model.
CGI
When it comes to shooting models, the list of things you need to plan for is extensive. If you make a mistake with a miniature shoot, it's a complete redo. CGI is flexible / iterative, and as a result the go-to tool for today's filmmakers. Is it expensive? Well, it's not free that's for sure. You often get what you paid for.
Try building your stand on a turntable. You can move the model at variable speeds with no need to move the lighting.
That ship reminds me of Babylon 5
(The Earth reminds me of Thunderbirds like stuff
Where do you get the models?
Link for the ship model:
http://3dmodel.domawe.com/2012/04/spaceship-free-3d-model.html
Planet earth is a sphere with a texture, simple as that (a sphere with the earth texture and another slightly larger sphere with a cloud texture of variable opacity).
Learn, or find someone who wants to. I often find that having an unachievable challenge is the best way for me to figure out how to achieve something new... it's how I got into filmmaking, Single statement; "I'm going to make a feature film" It's how I got into my first band in the 80s; "Cole, you can learn to play guitar" It's how I've done everything in my life.
Everything is knowable!
Guys thank you for the very helpful information. The advantage of reshooting it to is we now know what the backgrounds will look like and we can light the ship accordingly. The new DP we have works very fast compared to the one before. The ship is used in quiet a few scenes. We can make color prints of all the scenes as guides of how to light the ship for each scene. It shouldn't take any more than 2 hours to re=shoot the footage.
Another thing I will try this week is shrink the ship in the full body shots to see if the wires will vanish if the size is reduced.
Another thing I will try this week is shrink the ship in the full body shots to see if the wires will vanish if the size is reduced.
I know you think After Effects is rather pointless, but there is a pretty good wire removal tool built in should you ever want to reconsider.
Great tutorial video Knightly! Thank you.
Paul. I've got a seemless intergration setup with Sony Vegas and Adobe Premiere worked out that works project to project. Sony can save each special effects scene with the same file name over and over in uncompressed HD avi. Adobe Premiere automatically updates the changes that way.
Once you start using Vegas you will wonder what took you so long to jump on the band wagon.
I just fixed one scene with the greenscreen reflecting on the cockpit window by fine tuning the exact color tint with Vegas before I came to work. It takes time and patiences to get it right
Paul. I've got a seemless intergration setup with Sony Vegas and Adobe Premiere worked out that works project to project. Sony can save each special effects scene with the same file name over and over in uncompressed HD avi. Adobe Premiere automatically updates the changes that way.
Once you start using Vegas you will wonder what took you so long to jump on the band wagon.
I just fixed one scene with the greenscreen reflecting on the cockpit window by fine tuning the exact color tint with Vegas before I came to work. It takes time and patiences to get it right
That's pretty much how it always works, with whatever combo of different programs you use. Unless, of course, you're using two apps from the same vendor, like motion and fcp or... AE and Premier. Then it often works better, as WalterB mentioned.
Vegas is an editing program, kind of like Premier. I can't imagine why you would use the two together instead of just sticking with one or the other. Neither one can hold a candle to AE when it comes to doing any kind of serious compositing work. Keylight - a greenscreen plugin included with AE - would produce better results on your existing ship shot with just a couple of clicks, and it's got far more control to tweak it even further than anything Vegas has. And then there's the wire removal tool which would make quick work of your visible lines. And extensive image control filters for matching the color, texture, etc between the foreground and background. And rotoscoping tools, and tracking tools, and on and on and on - in other words it's probably the single most useful tool for video work available on the desktop.
This is like someone with a sledgehammer telling a surgeon they don't know what they're missing by using a scalpel for their work.
It takes even more time and patience to get it right if you're doing it wrong.
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Could always use this...
http://images.wikia.com/black/images/d/d0/Walther_2000.gif
I joke. I think it would have to be a stop motion jobby with chroma. I dunno much about this kinda stuffs. So if I'm wrong, don't use the above weapon to get me :s
http://images.wikia.com/black/images/d/d0/Walther_2000.gif
I joke. I think it would have to be a stop motion jobby with chroma. I dunno much about this kinda stuffs. So if I'm wrong, don't use the above weapon to get me :s
I don'e export with Sony Vegas, I just render the files and they are automatically updated.
Here is one scene where the ship is used in different angles and shots.
I applied changes last night such as cutting the size of the ship in half in some shots and adding new lighting effects.
https://vimeo.com/44846982
PW is mdmpllc
Here is one scene where the ship is used in different angles and shots.
I applied changes last night such as cutting the size of the ship in half in some shots and adding new lighting effects.
https://vimeo.com/44846982
PW is mdmpllc
The ship is flying to the side and not to the front...overall I think it needs a LOT of work.
I would definetly do this in CG, it would look so much better. Right now just looks like a toy hanging from wires. Even if we can't see the wires.
Once again, CG is NOT in the budget. We will re-shoot the model ship using suggestions from Rok and other members here.