Shady Film Producers - What do I do?

Hello All,

I am working under a TV Producer. I am starting to have second thoughts about working with this person due to the way he conducts business.

-We are producing a web series. He wants to lock in actors and other junior producers for a one year contract. No pay up front, only a partnership with him. If anyone walks away from the partnership, they lose their percentage ownership no matter if they put in 8 months of work, or any work for that matter. Thus far everyone is working for free to make the series. Is this legit? Can such a contract be binding if there is no exchange of money? In addition, he says if anyone walks away from the 1 year contract, they will be held responsible for all costs associated with producing the show. Is this legal? He is actually a TV producer, he gets interns to do all his work, even contact people to raise funding. I am working with a great team of people, but he is the one in question to me. The opportunity sounds great. I am given a nice percentage of potential future earnings. But at times, I am doubtful because he constantly backtracks on his words and changes contract details on the fly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Mike
 
How attached to him is your series? Is he really important to it? How hard it will be the making? Its part of a producer's job to do some things like this, but as you're saying, he really is crossing the line a little. The best thing to do is talk him out the severe contracts, I believe.
 
Thanks Souza. I have talked to him, and he does budge, but he is not even getting a lawyer involved in the contracts. He will use contracts found online and modify them to suit his needs. I do agree he crosses the line, but I can discuss a better approach with him. The series is his idea and he has controlling interest. I am merely someone who worked as an intern and then got "promoted". But he cannot afford to pay anyone until either funding is raised, or we get enough web views to earn money, or both.
 
One major challenge is deciding to sign with him for one full year, with no guarantee of pay. As part of this deal I must be at his studio 3 days a week. I get a percentage share of any and all associated profits as long as I don't walk away from the project. It's a decent deal. I do what a producer does, such as raising funding through various methods, preparing investment packages, meeting potential investors/advertisers, contributing to the creative content and working with a team and ensuring business is taken care of. Pay would be nice, but it seems smaller production companies may be in the same boat, to offer a piece of the pie rather than pay for my hard work. This way, if the show tanks, I get nothing but so does everyone else. No reward without risk. Any further comments/advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
So basically what it comes down to is the "future pay", which means that you, yourself need to ask, "Will this even make money?" If the answer is yes, then I wouldn't worry about it. If not, then I'd jump ship. It's actually pretty easy to tell whether or not something will fly.
 
Firm1 Thank you. I do believe the show will make money. That is the main reason I want to stick around. I just won't know how long it will take to make the money. Web views need to hit a certain number in the millions to really reap the rewards. And that takes time to build. Sponsorships also take time to acquire. It's all a gamble, but I knew that getting into the business.
 
Walk now. Just from reading your post I can tell this will not end well. I have learned the hard way in my real life that if some one causes this much headache even before you start,it is not going to get any better. Best case scenario you last the year and there are never any profits. Actually I would run.
 
One major challenge is deciding to sign with him for one full year, with no guarantee of pay. As part of this deal I must be at his studio 3 days a week. I get a percentage share of any and all associated profits as long as I don't walk away from the project. It's a decent deal. I do what a producer does, such as raising funding through various methods, preparing investment packages, meeting potential investors/advertisers, contributing to the creative content and working with a team and ensuring business is taken care of. Pay would be nice, but it seems smaller production companies may be in the same boat, to offer a piece of the pie rather than pay for my hard work. This way, if the show tanks, I get nothing but so does everyone else. No reward without risk. Any further comments/advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

Why are you not getting a % of whatever you can bring in? Why does it have to be conditional on first making the movie, and then seeing if it sells afterwards? What happens if the series is never completed? What happens if the series runs out of money 3/4 of the way in?

You're not gonna see a dime. Even if the web-series makes money, the first people seeing it are going to be the same people you borrowed all that money from to start with. They typically (and rightfully) get first dibs, and then some. Hopefully your investors are gonna have better contracts in place than your buddy's method of "not even getting a lawyer involved in the contracts." After that, there's gonna be a year's worth of rent & business-related expenses to get reimbursed for, etc etc etc.

If you are good at raising money (which is why I assume you're focusing on this aspect), then he needs you more than you need him. No filmmaker in their right mind would turn away someone who pledged to raise $$$$$ for their film, but keep X% for their troubles. In fact, if you can raise 100k for my next feature film, you can have 15% for your troubles. You'll have earned it. (I'm serious, btw)

if the show tanks, I get nothing but so does everyone else.

That's not really a great consolation, ya know, after sinking a full 156 workdays into the project.. ;)

Edit: Oh, I see bits about advertising too. That's diff, I 'spose.
 
Thanks Randy. I have till next Thursday to sign the contract. I should indicate that even if I sign the contract, I personally can still walk away from the project, I just don't get any of the percentage I am promised, should the series make any money at all. So, I was thinking of putting in a solid few months and gauging potential success based on the content produced. Still, part of me wants to walk away by next week. Though he has a plan to make this web series a tv series that airs on tv networks, I'm just not convinced that will happen. Everything is dependent upon financing. The lead producer always emphasizes that money will come, and to be patient. But there is no guarantee.
 
ZENSTEVE, thanks for your comments. I failed to mention that if I secure funding, the entire team will be paid their day rates (including myself). But I will not get a cut of funds raised. Since this is web tv and potentially network TV in which we buy airtime using sponsor money, I get paid what I'm worth. According to the producer in charge, in TV I am not allowed to be a Producer right off the bat. I have to be an assistant producer, or associate producer, even if I fund the entire project. But yes, I am being used to fund the entire series through sponsorships (still a work in progress but I do get meetings with people who have money). I've already put in weeks of work and the contract is not yet signed. This would be pre-production and development work. You raise really valid points. He does lay on the guilt trip that if I walk away, there is the potential that the show will be a success and I will have forfeited my percentage. I am getting to a point where I can do my own fund raising work, but I need to at least charge a fee or get a retainer. I am not even greedy about this, just getting an average yearly income would be great for starters.
 
you have to ask yourself, how many web series have actually made any money and if so how much,
would it be enough to cover your years wages............sounds to me like all RISK no REWARD.

if you have any doubts walk away and dont look back, doubt is your subconscious trying to warn you, listen to it.


he is basically offering you deferred payment. i have been in the film industry for 30 years
and i have yet to meet anyone who has actually received any payment from a deferral contract.

if you do go ahead get your own lawyer to draw up a fair employment contract and get him to sign it.

i would think what he is doing would be breaking several employment statutes.

cheers,
 
It's really hard to know what your situation is without reading the contract(s). I've read a bit about your commitments, but what about the producer in question?

It sounds like you put together the team and are working on the funding. What has he done to further the project so far? What are his future commitments? If the series tanks due to his negligence does he reimburse everyone for their time and efforts? What happens if he walks away?

Personally I would be very leery about committing myself for a year with no pay and uncertain prospects. If I am being paid that's quite a different story; I have a financial incentive to stay and would only walk away under egregious circumstances. There is also the question of the contract; my specific commitments and responsibilities. I work my tail off, I get screwed, blued and tattooed half way through and if I leave I have to pay? Well fornicate that!

I would most definitely have an entertainment attorney go over the contract and be with me when we discuss the final terms. Anyone who shies away from proper legal counsel most definitely has ulterior motives - like take the money and run. Everyone else is taking a major risk, especially if he wants a one year commitment without pay; what are his risks? It seems like this person wants all the rewards without taking any risks of his own.
 
No pay up front, only a partnership with him. If anyone walks away from the partnership, they lose their percentage ownership no matter if they put in 8 months of work, or any work for that matter. Thus far everyone is working for free to make the series. Is this legit?

It's highly likely legal. Contracts tend to be unenforceable if there is no quid pro quo. Seeing he if offering a percentage of ownership (and assuming profits with that) in exchange for it, then yes, it's legal. You're acting as an equity partner with a performance clause to gain this equity.

Can such a contract be binding if there is no exchange of money?

There is no need for money exchanged to make it legal.

In addition, he says if anyone walks away from the 1 year contract, they will be held responsible for all costs associated with producing the show. Is this legal?

It could be. It sounds like a breach clause to me. I'm not sure if this in combination with the rest would then cause the contract to cease, and whether it would breach and local labor laws.

He is actually a TV producer, he gets interns to do all his work, even contact people to raise funding. I am working with a great team of people, but he is the one in question to me. The opportunity sounds great. I am given a nice percentage of potential future earnings. But at times, I am doubtful because he constantly backtracks on his words and changes contract details on the fly.

I've read of this being an option to be used on productions, usually in combination with some cash payments. It is the method that I'm planning on using if/when I make my first feature. If you have a written contract, the terms cannot usually be changed without both parties agreeing to the new terms.

If you don't have a written contract and the details change on the fly, then you're probably going to be up for a real shit fight in the future and you should ask yourself if you want to continue in the situation you're in.

he is not even getting a lawyer involved in the contracts. He will use contracts found online and modify them to suit his needs.

While this isn't exactly smart, there's nothing wrong with this. There are certain legal terms that you can unintentionally use that have special meaning can change or even invalidate clauses, and occasionally entire contracts. It's just smart to have a lawyer look over the contracts.

If you are good at raising money (which is why I assume you're focusing on this aspect), then he needs you more than you need him. No filmmaker in their right mind would turn away someone who pledged to raise $$$$$ for their film, but keep X% for their troubles. In fact, if you can raise 100k for my next feature film, you can have 15% for your troubles. You'll have earned it.

This is both a fair and common practice within the duties of an executive producer (the person who sources the funding).

I have till next Thursday to sign the contract. I should indicate that even if I sign the contract, I personally can still walk away from the project, I just don't get any of the percentage I am promised, should the series make any money at all. So, I was thinking of putting in a solid few months and gauging potential success based on the content produced. Still, part of me wants to walk away by next week. Though he has a plan to make this web series a tv series that airs on tv networks, I'm just not convinced that will happen. Everything is dependent upon financing. The lead producer always emphasizes that money will come, and to be patient. But there is no guarantee.

There are so many factors to consider. Do you have enough cash reserves to be able to live until the production makes any money? Is there an exit clause that you can exercise if there is no revenue by [x] date? Do you have to pass on any work that comes up? Do you have other opportunities? Are you likely to get any?

There's a difference from working for a few months on a feature film to working for potentially a year or two on a series without making any money.

In the end, you have to make the decision for yourself. What's the best decision for you.

I failed to mention that if I secure funding, the entire team will be paid their day rates (including myself). But I will not get a cut of funds raised. Since this is web tv and potentially network TV in which we buy airtime using sponsor money, I get paid what I'm worth. According to the producer in charge, in TV I am not allowed to be a Producer right off the bat. I have to be an assistant producer, or associate producer, even if I fund the entire project.

This and this alone so far really concerns me. You are carrying all the burden of risk without the upside. This assumes you lose your percentage too. If you get paid and keep the points (mind if I ask what your points are for securing the finance?) then the deal may be fine. By the sounds of it, you'd be what's called an executive producer.

But yes, I am being used to fund the entire series through sponsorships (still a work in progress but I do get meetings with people who have money). I've already put in weeks of work and the contract is not yet signed. This would be pre-production and development work. You raise really valid points. He does lay on the guilt trip that if I walk away, there is the potential that the show will be a success and I will have forfeited my percentage. I am getting to a point where I can do my own fund raising work, but I need to at least charge a fee or get a retainer. I am not even greedy about this, just getting an average yearly income would be great for starters.

Since you have no agreement in place, there is a chance that under current labor laws, you're entitled to get paid for the work done if you walk away. It may be worth looking into.

you have to ask yourself, how many web series have actually made any money and if so how much, would it be enough to cover your years wages

There is a single episode web series that went on to make millions. So yes, the potential is there, so long as your producer is strong. I saw raw's spreadsheet about youtube content makers income a while back so it's fairly safe to I assume some make a lot, most don't.

After all this, it sounds like you should consider passing on this deal. If you do and you're good at chasing up money for productions, you'll be hot property and in high demand by the filmmakers on this forum.

Good luck and ask more questions if necessary.
 
Can such a contract be binding if there is no exchange of money? In addition, he says if anyone walks away from the 1 year contract, they will be held responsible for all costs associated with producing the show. Is this legal? He is actually a TV producer, he gets interns to do all his work, even contact people to raise funding.
There are contracts that are "for good and valuable consideration" which is essentially nothing.
I don't know who would agree to be liable for those costs though. Sounds insane. A judge might just throw it out as unreasonable if push came to shove. How hard is it to just replace someone anyway?
It's one thing to have a solid contract but it's another thing to follow through and sue someone. In these types of situations it's usually too expensive to sue someone who probably has no money to sue for anyway. So in the end the contract wasn't worth the paper it was written on anyway.
 
Thank you all for commenting and helping me decide. I spoke with the lead producer at length. I think its a chance I am going to take. Contract has been modified to reflect my concerns. I'm still playing the same role, and since I am not responsible for any costs, and if I decide to walk away because the project is performing poorly, I will not be held responsible. I believe the series has potential to be successful. Once funding comes in, I will be paid a good day rate. So for me, this is a gamble but a safe one in that I am able to give up my time to do this unpaid for a while.
 
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