Recording Dialogue

T

TDMExperience

I have a camera that does not have any audio inputs, and the on camera mic obviously isn't sufficient for recording anything. Since I'm new to this (and broke most of the time), I'm trying to find the most bang for my buck. It looks like I'm going to need a shotgun mic. Does anyone have any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive choice that will still give me decent results. I'm not looking for top of the line (yet), so I'm looking for the best cost to quality ratio.

Also, what are some options for actual recording interfaces. I have some decent sound equipment for my computer from my days of making music, but ideally I don't want to use my laptop to record audio - it makes a lot of noise, plus if I'm not careful it gets very hot and I'd rather save my overtaxing for when I'm editing video. Again, I'm not looking for top of the line yet, but just something that will get the job done in a decent fashion so I can start learning how to effectively record audio for my video.

Thanks!
 
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Start with some basic research:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html

http://www.colinhartonline.com/

http://filmsound.org/


"Not top of the line" is extremely vague; professional "Hollywood" sound kits can run $50,000 to $100,000 and more. My "basic" sound kit runs about $2,500, but I've found that most don't even want to spend 20% of that, so please define a specific budget.

Here's my version of a passable low-budget production sound kit:

Marantz PMD-661 w/case

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ble_Flash.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rder_Case.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Universal.html

Audio-Technica AT-897 Shotgun Kit

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Condenser.html

Audio-Technica AT4053b Hypercardioid Microphone

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html

You'll also need some nice headphones.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Headphone.html


Add a few extra XLR cables, a good case for everything else and some insurance this totals under $2,500.
 
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He can't afford any of that!

Since I'm new to this (and broke most of the time), I'm trying to find the most bang for my buck. It looks like I'm going to need a shotgun mic. Does anyone have any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive choice that will still give me decent results.

He's broke most of the time. Livin' paycheck to paycheck.

Get one of these:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=14...gun+mic&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

and one of these:
http://electronics.shop.ebay.com/Po...=Voice_Recorders&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Less than a hundred bucks!

"No", it ain't gonna sound great, in fact it will probably sound like poop.
But you wont be tethered to your camera's poop mic.

You do have someone that can stand around with this shotgun screwed onto the end of a mop handle, right?
Otherwise... you'll have poop on a stick laying on the floor.

'Course, you could rig a DIY PVC stand for the boom pole.
 
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rayw said:
He can't afford any of that!
Click to expand...

Which is why I asked for a specific budget. Being someone who apparently knows something about sound I don't think that TDM would be satisfied with your recommendations which will create just as many - if not more - problems than they solve; that is if TDM is a "serious" filmmaker.

My bias is for the indie filmmaker to get reasonable quality for a reasonable cost plus some sweat while paying attention to audio details. For about $700+ and a little DIY a workable micro budget kit is possible.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563843-REG/Audio_Technica_AT875_Short_Condenser_Shotgun.html

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-CM217-Condenser-Mic-Buy-One-Get-One-Free?sku=271324

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83d3qLHaAN4
 
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You want great sound, listen to Alcove it will cost ya. ( still listen to him no matter what ) You want good sound you can do it cheaper, you must master the tools. Im using a $49 Olympus Digital recorder and I get decent sound using $25 lav mics. Alcove's advice main point is that many beginners see sound as an afterthought and the quality suffers greatly. Many arts can be done w/ simple tools. It takes mastery to make it work. I have not "yet" mastered my simple tools, but Im working on it. Im at the advanced beginner stage here.

Alcove can show you how to get great sound for a fraction of what the pros use. Still gonna cost ya. It is also recommended to hire a competent sound person, many times it is cheaper to hire a pro than to buy the stuff yourself. You put the best of the best $2000 mic in the hands of someone who does not know how to use it..you gonna get crapola sound.


Let's say you are doing a low-budget flick..

$1600 T3i and used lenses, battery grip & memory cards
$700 for sound kit
$200 for hardware store lighting

That same $2500 would probably allow you to hire a decent semi-pro indie DOP w/ good cams & light kit and a semi-pro sound person and have a few bucks for food to feed your help. This would allow you to focus on directing or whatever. The quality of your production would be much better this route than buying gear and then making plenty of mistakes along the way. Just be sure to have a way to get the video and sound from both each day.

YES you would have the eqt afterwards however they depreciate and the T9i will be out before you know it






.
 
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Sorry, I wasn't aware of the incredible range of options so I didn't realize how vague I was being.

My interest level is in line with Alcove, but my budget is in line with rayw. As of now, I'm not a "serious"film maker - and by that I mean that I am about 5 months into even thinking about film making - I don't have any experience or any actual projects that I'm working on. I am serious in the sense that I am highly interested and I have every intention of working on becoming "serious" in the other sense.

Basically I'd love to be working with a great kit like Alcove laid out, but it isn't really feasible right now. Since I'm an infant to this and just trying to learn the ropes, I'm looking for a Fisher Price My First Audio Kit haha.

Either way, all of this information is very helpful (both short and long term). Thanks for the input everyone!
 
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And by the way, I quickly learned that lighting and audio were 2 of the most important things I needed to learn how to do. So while I'm working cheap right now and not doing what I need to do to be professional, I have no intention of treating audio as an after thought. A lot of the information Alcove linked to is going to be incredibly helpful in terms of improving my audio, even with my severely limited budget so I'm incredibly appreciative of that.
 
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Sorry, I don't really have a specific budget other than "cheap". It's a situation where I'm piecing things together as I go along, so when I have a couple extra bucks, I buy something new, and every couple of months I get a bonus that allows me to splurge a little bit. I'd say overall I'd be able to spend a couple hundred bucks at this point.
 
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Alcove.

I have solved the riddle of the neglect of budget for indie filmmakers on sound.

The art of film sound editing is the art of being invisible. The best sound for movies is never commented upon after you watch the movie. It was so well done that no-one had any attention on the sound.

So, these indie filmmakers who know NOTHING other than the photos of James Cameron running around with cameras and directors standing in front of their CAMERA, and NOT the MICROPHONES or MIXBOARDS used to create their soundtrack,

THIS is why most filmmakers don't have a clue what good sound requires - BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ATTENTION ON IT WHILE WATCHING GOOD MOVIES.

Hah.
 
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ROC said:
The art of film sound editing is the art of being invisible.
Click to expand...

Have you been stalking me and following me to other forums? My signature on several forums is:

"Filmmaking is the art of being invisible;
if anyone notices your work, you haven't done your job right."

I've always maintained that with 95% of filmmakers if they can't see it they don't care about it.
 
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Uh oh, you're on to me.

Nah, I came up with that slogan after much of my work never got thanked or praised because I would edit together from scratch whole lines of dialogue (for actors who went on vacation to the Gulf of Mexico before the film was released and the director wanted to change this or that before the final mix) and other such things that the VFX and the picture editors and cameramen always got the praise because you see their work. Sound is sort of like an afterthought to them and it isn't well documented the hoops I sometimes have to jump through to make something out of nothing.

Thankless job, sound.
 
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TDMExperience said:
I don't really have a specific budget other than "cheap".
Click to expand...

But, you see, to me $2,500 is cheap. In my opinion that is the absolute minimum - coupled with some skill and a lot of attention to detail - to have a real shot at professional production sound to bring into audio post.

The problem is that most do not appreciate how much sound quality is connected to picture quality. It's a question of perception. As I've mentioned often, audiences will forgive poor visuals far more readily than they will forgive poor sound.

You can take any cheap mic, put it on the end of a DIY boom-pole, plug it into a cheap digital recorder and you will get better sound than your camera mic - as long as you make a serious attempt to point the mic at the talent, plug some headphones into the recorder and actually listen, and, of course, make sure that the unit is actually recording. You just have to keep on mind that pieces like that are disposable; you will not get anything out of resale, and they will not be of any major use once you begin to upgrade. My bias, always, is looking towards upward compatibility. That's why I always recommend low impedance mics; they're compatible with even high end professional equipment, besides being far superior when it comes to rejecting RF and other types of interference. A unit like the DR-100 will make a great back-up to a professional unit. A decent quality boom-pole will provide years of use.

So you always have to keep my perspective on this subject in mind when reading my answers.
 
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