Recording Audio Off Camera

petruzzo

petruzzo

So, I did some research and I bought myself a shotgun condenser mic, which reviewers seemed to agree would probably be a good, lower cost place to start for improving audio. But from just about everything else I read, I understand that it would also make a big difference, in terms of workflow, to record the separately from the camera. (I have been hiding a sound guy behind props to get better audio from my H1 recorder, it works so-so).

But, what I'm a little confused about is what that piece of equipment is called--you know the little mixer that slings over the shoulder and records onto CF or SD cards? What's that thing called, is there a moderately priced entry level model, and is there one this community seems to prefer?
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
This is what my guy uses

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485879-REG/Korg_MR1000_MR_1000_1_Bit_Professional.html

That's a semi-pro model at about $1200. Nice ones are more, a Zoom is the low budget option. There are a number in the Korg's price range, a Tascam and others. Alcove will no doubt be along shortly with detailed answer, just throwing out that this ($1000 or so) is the price point to get something that's pretty decent.
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Decent is a super relative term. When you say decent, do you mean decent for indie-filmmakers with their sights set on Hollywood, or do you mean decent for the total beginner who wants to do the best he can with his Handycam?
 
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Decent for the indie filmmaker with his sights set on festivals or theatrical release. The quality of something like that Korg (in the right hands) can deliver excellent sound. It just doesn't have all the bells and whistles, and ease of workflow of a a higher end pro model.
For the beginner with his handycam looking to take sound off camera I think the ZoomH4 is the model of choice.
 
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I have the Zoom and it's brilliant. No sense using a nicer recorder when you don't have a nice mic first.

I think the Tascam DR 100 is nicer personally. I was about to buy it, then a friend surprised me with the zoom as a gift. Tascam is generally a better brand than Samson, but hey, it was free. Now that the DR-100 is the same price, it's the better buy in the $300 range.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
I have the Zoom and it's brilliant. No sense using a nicer recorder when you don't have a nice mic first.

I think the Tascam DR 100 is nicer personally. I was about to buy it, then a friend surprised me with the zoom as a gift. Tascam is generally a better brand than Samson, but hey, it was free. Now that the DR-100 is the same price, it's the better buy in the $300 range.
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I was looking at that one actually.

Let me expand. I bought an Rode NGT-2 condenser mic. Right now I'm just plugging it into the H1's input. Would it be an improvement to go with the DR-100?
 
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You may want to read my blog about production sound:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

The cheapest "real" production sound field recorders are the Marantz PMD-661 and the Fostex FR2-LE at about $600, and the Roland/Edirol R-44 that records four channels at about $1k. Professional production sound field recorders like Sound Devices start at around $2,500 and are usually used with field mixers that start at about $1,200 and mics of equivalent value.

The Zoom H4n is a popular low budget alternative right now; the Tascam DR-100 is competitive ($20 cheaper) and some feel that it sounds better and has a more intuitive menu system. Both, however, are made with music applications in mind, so tend to record slightly lower audio levels than other field recorders (the NTG-2 is especially prone to this having a lower output level than most mics). They also eat batteries at a ferocious rate when supplying phantom power.

And while we're on the subject of mics... Unless you are exquisitely careful with your set prep and mic/boom technique a shotgun mic will yield very "roomy" "echoey" production sound when used indoors. The reason is the polar (mic pick-up) pattern. Hypercardioid is the polar pattern of choice for indoor usage. My newest favorite mic recommendation is the Cad CM217 cardioid condenser mic. At about $70 is will do an okay job. A lot of my peers are using it as a disposable in hazardous recording situations. (Musicians Friend has a 2-for-1 special on them right now.)

Don't forget a good set of headphones like the Sony MDR-7506.

Always keep in mind that your technique is just as important, if not more important, than the gear you are using.

Here's what the pros use:


IMG_0818.jpg


IMG_0881.jpg
 
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Alcove Audio said:
My newest favorite mic recommendation is the Cad CM217 cardioid condenser mic. At about $70 is will do an okay job. A lot of my peers are using it as a disposable in hazardous recording situations. (Musicians Friend has a 2-for-1 special on them right now.)
Click to expand...

Are these actually decent little mics, and will they fit in a shockmount?

It's a great price, 2 for $60, but I know you get what you pay for.
 
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PaulGriffith said:
you get what you pay for.
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Exactly right.

They will be better than a poorly wielded shotgun mic or an on-camera mic. When used with a recorder like the H4n or the DR-100 you will probably not notice the self-noise. The CM217 should fit into a standard shock-mount. Will it compare to an AT4053b or a Schoeps? Of course not, but probably better than nothing.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
You may want to read my blog about production sound:

http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog

The cheapest "real" production sound field recorders are the Marantz PMD-661 and the Fostex FR2-LE at about $600, and the Roland/Edirol R-44 that records four channels at about $1k. Professional production sound field recorders like Sound Devices start at around $2,500 and are usually used with field mixers that start at about $1,200 and mics of equivalent value.

The Zoom H4n is a popular low budget alternative right now; the Tascam DR-100 is competitive ($20 cheaper) and some feel that it sounds better and has a more intuitive menu system. Both, however, are made with music applications in mind, so tend to record slightly lower audio levels than other field recorders (the NTG-2 is especially prone to this having a lower output level than most mics). They also eat batteries at a ferocious rate when supplying phantom power.

And while we're on the subject of mics... Unless you are exquisitely careful with your set prep and mic/boom technique a shotgun mic will yield very "roomy" "echoey" production sound when used indoors. The reason is the polar (mic pick-up) pattern. Hypercardioid is the polar pattern of choice for indoor usage. My newest favorite mic recommendation is the Cad CM217 cardioid condenser mic. At about $70 is will do an okay job. A lot of my peers are using it as a disposable in hazardous recording situations. (Musicians Friend has a 2-for-1 special on them right now.)

Don't forget a good set of headphones like the Sony MDR-7506.

Always keep in mind that your technique is just as important, if not more important, than the gear you are using.

Here's what the pros use:


IMG_0818.jpg


IMG_0881.jpg
Click to expand...

That appears to be a great price. Understand that my position is not to move into anything 'professional' so to speak, as I'm only exploring this as a hobby. Basically, I want to put together some shorts to test my abilities and learn some things. I'll also have some business applications which need to be passable to the untrained viewer. But, I don't have a whole lot of spare time to do so. So, as I'm working and learning, I want to start with something 'decent' so that I don't waste my time only to find that I made something that would have been pretty good for what it is, but drained of it's entertaining value by terrible audio.
 
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What I use is a shotgun condenser mic plugged in a regular old digital voice recorder. Then I just sinc up the audio later... its not the most professional rig but I actually get exceptional sound quality and it works great.
 
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