I am in the process of adapting a short into a pilot for a TV series, very gritty inner city horror probably HBO material. Writing concept is a Sin City/True Blood style. From a directors perspective could I get your feedback on what you would think of shooting a series pilot like this, with high-definition digital cameras, using a green screen as in Sin City or 300. Also do you think a series like this would have legs because of it, or would it be detrimental?
Question for Directors
- Thread starter Randy 57
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Thanks you for the feedback mussonman: Excerpts from IMDb and the demographics used for my reasoning to do filming of the pilot this way.
Here are parts of the reviews so I kind of get where you are coming from, although during that period the demographic that most attended all movies was from 18 to 25 which was their target and the gross sales really tell the truth. 2011 stats say that demographic end of 2011 was 25-39 putting the age group that loved 300 and Sin City right in the middle of today's market.
300
If you are easily impressed by beautiful landscapes, wonderful camera-work and editing and powerful acting then go see this. Right. Now. You'll be missing out if you don't. There is so much to see, so much power in the way this comic is translated to the big screen... It'll leave you in awe.
However, you are looking for a good story, clever plot twists, some innovating to the world of the movies then skip this. 300 contains nothing of this, nor does it wants to give you this.
I enjoyed this movie so much, but I know there will be people that will pass of as rubbish, and that's understandable. Just be sure to make up your mind about what you want to see when you go to the theater yourself instead of being drawn into bias by the tons of reviews this site has to offer.
Sin City
Equally beautiful and gritty black and white, with occasional brushes of color that all but explode off the screen- the comic books (graphic novels to you purists) act like storyboards for this movie- as life is breathed into the still images on the pages. The "From Book to Screen" section that is no doubt going to be a feature on the future DVD release of this movie will no doubt drop a few jaws for those that haven't bothered to check out the source material. Cold, cruel humor and over-the-top, audience-wince-inducing violence are blended in the style of "Pulp Fiction" and "From Dusk 'Till Dawn" for obvious reasons, but as I stated before, it's all direct from the books. Kudos to Robert Rodriguez for not compromising in the making of this film and for his commitment to the original source material; and also to his co-director Frank Miller for his obvious contributions.
Here are parts of the reviews so I kind of get where you are coming from, although during that period the demographic that most attended all movies was from 18 to 25 which was their target and the gross sales really tell the truth. 2011 stats say that demographic end of 2011 was 25-39 putting the age group that loved 300 and Sin City right in the middle of today's market.
300
If you are easily impressed by beautiful landscapes, wonderful camera-work and editing and powerful acting then go see this. Right. Now. You'll be missing out if you don't. There is so much to see, so much power in the way this comic is translated to the big screen... It'll leave you in awe.
However, you are looking for a good story, clever plot twists, some innovating to the world of the movies then skip this. 300 contains nothing of this, nor does it wants to give you this.
I enjoyed this movie so much, but I know there will be people that will pass of as rubbish, and that's understandable. Just be sure to make up your mind about what you want to see when you go to the theater yourself instead of being drawn into bias by the tons of reviews this site has to offer.
Sin City
Equally beautiful and gritty black and white, with occasional brushes of color that all but explode off the screen- the comic books (graphic novels to you purists) act like storyboards for this movie- as life is breathed into the still images on the pages. The "From Book to Screen" section that is no doubt going to be a feature on the future DVD release of this movie will no doubt drop a few jaws for those that haven't bothered to check out the source material. Cold, cruel humor and over-the-top, audience-wince-inducing violence are blended in the style of "Pulp Fiction" and "From Dusk 'Till Dawn" for obvious reasons, but as I stated before, it's all direct from the books. Kudos to Robert Rodriguez for not compromising in the making of this film and for his commitment to the original source material; and also to his co-director Frank Miller for his obvious contributions.
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It depends on what you are going for. I mean, I liked Sin City and 300 and the style that both directors incorporated, but I don't know if it would work for a long running TV show.
If it's gritty/horror, could try going for a True Blood meets The Wire style?
If it's gritty/horror, could try going for a True Blood meets The Wire style?
Aesthetically speaking, those are two opposing styles. I can think of few films that are less gritty and realistic than 300 and Sin City, so if you are really striving for gritty realism then steer clear of shooting anything like those movies.
I agree; both films were way over the top, but lots of fun.
People above have mentioned other options for having an inner city gritty style like The Shield or The Wire.
But if you want to go for 300 or Sin City, you have to have a good reason. Style for just its own sake doesn't work for long. But if the style matches the story then they complement each other and make sense.
But if you want to go for 300 or Sin City, you have to have a good reason. Style for just its own sake doesn't work for long. But if the style matches the story then they complement each other and make sense.
I'm officially over 40, and loved both 300 and Sin City (and the associated graphic novels before them).
This is cool as well, and even more sylized:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh7s32XRScQ
Sky Captain
Aidan 5
Much of Spy Kids
Shark Boy and Lava Girl
(really a lot of the Rodriguez canon is done this way)
Plenty of examples of this type of work out there.
This is cool as well, and even more sylized:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh7s32XRScQ
Sky Captain
Aidan 5
Much of Spy Kids
Shark Boy and Lava Girl
(really a lot of the Rodriguez canon is done this way)
Plenty of examples of this type of work out there.
I am a fan of the style and aesthetics myself, as a mid-30s never-stopped-reading-comics guy. As knightly said, lots of good examples (nod to Sanctuary, which started as a no-budget webseries that got picked up into a low-budget Syfy show. Not a great show, but it has it's moments).
If you're doing that, you are going for a niche market (that's not a bad thing) Might be good to look into that market, see what people like and dislike, and what they're looking for in a show. I think that's largely the comic book crowd, though I'd guess more people watched Sin City than read it. Furthermore, there's a whole comic book genre for crime/noir type stuff. I particularly dug Torso; worth looking into to get some ideas. And of course, if you haven't read Sin City (or even The Crow), I'd definitely recommend giving it a read, and compare how it translated into the screen.
All that said, I agree that gritty might not be the best adjective; that implies a degree of realism, and the style leans towards a hyper-realism. Either way, I'd find it interesting and be more inclined to watch it than another crime show, but I tend not to like them. There's my geek-biased two cents!
If you're doing that, you are going for a niche market (that's not a bad thing) Might be good to look into that market, see what people like and dislike, and what they're looking for in a show. I think that's largely the comic book crowd, though I'd guess more people watched Sin City than read it. Furthermore, there's a whole comic book genre for crime/noir type stuff. I particularly dug Torso; worth looking into to get some ideas. And of course, if you haven't read Sin City (or even The Crow), I'd definitely recommend giving it a read, and compare how it translated into the screen.
All that said, I agree that gritty might not be the best adjective; that implies a degree of realism, and the style leans towards a hyper-realism. Either way, I'd find it interesting and be more inclined to watch it than another crime show, but I tend not to like them. There's my geek-biased two cents!
If you are wanting to do a series with a seriously highly stylized concept, you would have to have a good (and believable) reason to shoot it that way. If the style reflected the way your main character views the world around him/her it would be believable. Remember that first and foremost, story is everything. If it is well written, well acted, well scored, and well shot, with invisible audio, people will want to see it.
Great Idea but...
You have a killer concept. If done right, you will definitely get the attention of a HUGE segment of the key demographics that all networks are vying to attract. The young males.
Moreover, your idea has excellent ancillary potential. Video games. Websites. Apparel. Graphic novelization.
Despite what some of the critics may say on this thread, the name of the game is diversified revenue. And if you have an idea that attracts different streams of revenue, your rolling stone will gather momentum and your project will move forward.
...however...
Shooting all green screen is a bit tricky. When you cite movies like Sin City and 300, you're talking about two directors who are top frickin notch! Zack Snyder had just finished Dawn of the Dead before he did 300, which is one of the finest pieces of directing and editing I've seen in a while. And Rodriquez... well... he needs no introduction. He's extremely strong with his visuals.
Those chaps absolutely know how to tell a story with a camera.
Do you?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you're not quite at that level yet. Right? You're still learning, right? Well, guess what... it's hard enough to figure out great camera angles on your actors when they're in a real-life battlefield or a real-life dungeon... but you... with a 100% green screen canopy... you're going to have to mastermind every shot AHEAD of time on a completely blank canvass. And you're going to have generate an enormous amount of visual interest without knowing for sure what the final visual will be.
Beyond that, you'll need a super human team of special effects artists to pull this off. Guys that will work cheaply and guys that will deliver a stunning product.
Or...
Or maybe you have an outline and a story that is so compelling that execs are going to eat your idea up and be begging to bankroll your pilot with whatever budget you want.
I don't know which scenario you're in exactly. I just wanna say that your concept is top notch. If you wanna make money in this town and succeed and get more gigs down the road, your concept is absolutely on the right track. However, I really caution whether you (as, I presume, a beginning director) are going to execute your concept in such a way that your pilot will get picked up and your series will get underway.
You'll have some thinkin' to do. Some learning.
Shanked
You have a killer concept. If done right, you will definitely get the attention of a HUGE segment of the key demographics that all networks are vying to attract. The young males.
Moreover, your idea has excellent ancillary potential. Video games. Websites. Apparel. Graphic novelization.
Despite what some of the critics may say on this thread, the name of the game is diversified revenue. And if you have an idea that attracts different streams of revenue, your rolling stone will gather momentum and your project will move forward.
...however...
Shooting all green screen is a bit tricky. When you cite movies like Sin City and 300, you're talking about two directors who are top frickin notch! Zack Snyder had just finished Dawn of the Dead before he did 300, which is one of the finest pieces of directing and editing I've seen in a while. And Rodriquez... well... he needs no introduction. He's extremely strong with his visuals.
Those chaps absolutely know how to tell a story with a camera.
Do you?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you're not quite at that level yet. Right? You're still learning, right? Well, guess what... it's hard enough to figure out great camera angles on your actors when they're in a real-life battlefield or a real-life dungeon... but you... with a 100% green screen canopy... you're going to have to mastermind every shot AHEAD of time on a completely blank canvass. And you're going to have generate an enormous amount of visual interest without knowing for sure what the final visual will be.
Beyond that, you'll need a super human team of special effects artists to pull this off. Guys that will work cheaply and guys that will deliver a stunning product.
Or...
Or maybe you have an outline and a story that is so compelling that execs are going to eat your idea up and be begging to bankroll your pilot with whatever budget you want.
I don't know which scenario you're in exactly. I just wanna say that your concept is top notch. If you wanna make money in this town and succeed and get more gigs down the road, your concept is absolutely on the right track. However, I really caution whether you (as, I presume, a beginning director) are going to execute your concept in such a way that your pilot will get picked up and your series will get underway.
You'll have some thinkin' to do. Some learning.
Shanked
Alright here's my two cents:
This is a fantastic idea IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY. I cannot stress enough that it must be done well to pull off surreal yet realistic at the same time.
The realism must come from your characters and their interactions with others, (basic sociology principles) in an environment that is very unrealistic, giving everything an extremely contrasted feeling (and boy do I love me some contrast.)
It's similar, in a sense, to my need to make a film of the classic book Foundation by Isaac Asimov. It's a good idea on paper, but extremely difficult to play out, due to the books dialogue-oriented nature. I mean who wants to watch a movie of a bunch dudes talking? If done well a lot of people.
But I digress. I think the most important thing is to make sure that while those two things contrast, they also coincide. What happens to the characters must directly be affected by their strange environment, and vice versa. The thing that is key is to have the characters respond to such strange environments in a way that most of us would.
That's what I have to say about it.
This is a fantastic idea IF IT IS DONE CORRECTLY. I cannot stress enough that it must be done well to pull off surreal yet realistic at the same time.
The realism must come from your characters and their interactions with others, (basic sociology principles) in an environment that is very unrealistic, giving everything an extremely contrasted feeling (and boy do I love me some contrast.)
It's similar, in a sense, to my need to make a film of the classic book Foundation by Isaac Asimov. It's a good idea on paper, but extremely difficult to play out, due to the books dialogue-oriented nature. I mean who wants to watch a movie of a bunch dudes talking? If done well a lot of people.
But I digress. I think the most important thing is to make sure that while those two things contrast, they also coincide. What happens to the characters must directly be affected by their strange environment, and vice versa. The thing that is key is to have the characters respond to such strange environments in a way that most of us would.
That's what I have to say about it.
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