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Question about hiring a colorist.

H

harmonica44

When I give him the my edited footage for grading is there a format I should give it to him in where he can correct all the cuts individually? I have Premiere Pro, and that has export options such as MPEG-2 and H.264. But when you export the video like, you do not get all of the individual cuts separated, and he will have to make the cuts himself when the shots change.

Is there a better format, where he can be given all the cuts in order so it plays like a movie, but each one will be separated for grading easier?

Thanks.
 
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That's what EDLs and the like are for.

Resolve has clip detection, so it is possible to work with a flat rendered file, but not ideal... ideally color correction should happen with the camera original footage. If you export an EDL, AAF, or XML, your colorist ought to be able to import that and have your edited timeline in their coloring suite, linked to camera original footage ideally.

Specifically what you want to research is 'Roundtripping' from Premiere to whatever color package your colorist is using.

But really, he/she ought to be able to tell you exactly what they'd like to receive to make their life easier. :)
 
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Okay thanks. I just want to be ready, since one colorist so far told met that they have only graded original footage and that's it. I have already 'nested', a lot of the video. I know not to do that for next time I guess, if I hire a colorist, but I would have to go back and recut everything. Plus I already ran some of the footage through after effects, so it's been changed and is not the original file either. So I would have re-add effects to it too.

I thought maybe the AAF or EDL had something to do with that, but when I make a export an AAF or EDL file, my computer cannot open it or read it after, so I wasn't sure.

Thanks.

So let's say for next time or even this time if I redo things, that I want to add effects into the footage, like a car exploding. Say the fire of the car, from Action Essentials, is not the right color I want. Say the scene has a really cold color grade to it, and the fire is just too warm and red looking compared to the rest of the grade. Should I add the explosion effects first and then send it to a grader, or should I give him the original footage first, then he/she grades it, then I put through after effects?
 
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No more additions or alterations. If you have SFX work you need graded, include it. I should have said, make sure you have "picture lock" unless you're going to get billed the more time you waste by making him do double work.
 
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Sweetie said:
If you have SFX work you need graded, include it.
Click to expand...

For my own further understanding, how would the process work for flat/log footage when adding in non flat/log SFX elements?

Currently I do all the editing/grading/sfx for our small team so I am able to juggle between grading/SFX . My workflow has been to basically edit->color correct-> SFX -> final grade. But I always wondered how a sfx and grading workflow would be handled if I were ever lucky enough to work in a larger team. I struggle with the thought of converting my flat/log footage using a basic lut before editing because wouldn't I want the colorist to have untouched footage to work with for maximum flexibility in post? I don't want to bake in any look before it get's to that stage.

Thanks for your time!
 
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It also depends on which level you want to hire a colorist.
A dedicated colorist with a complete Da Vinci setup is more expensive than someone who's more or less adequate using Colorista in Premiere Pro.
The latter could probably open a copy of your project.

Anyway: yes your edit needs to be locked.
 
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jj4vr said:
For my own further understanding, how would the process work for flat/log footage when adding in non flat/log SFX elements?

Currently I do all the editing/grading/sfx for our small team so I am able to juggle between grading/SFX . My workflow has been to basically edit->color correct-> SFX -> final grade. But I always wondered how a sfx and grading workflow would be handled if I were ever lucky enough to work in a larger team. I struggle with the thought of converting my flat/log footage using a basic lut before editing because wouldn't I want the colorist to have untouched footage to work with for maximum flexibility in post? I don't want to bake in any look before it get's to that stage.

Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...

VFX should be able to work with LUTs and export log too.
 
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Thanks for the info.

So would the workflow be like the following :
A base lut is created by someone (colorist?) to convert from log to linear(?). This is sent to VFX company along with the original log footage. All VFX is matched to this footage with the base lut applied. This is then rendered back out as log so that when it's brought into the colorists workflow, the base lut is applied there and color correction can begin followed by grading?

Or does the colorist do the color correction first... then for any VFX work that needs to be done a LUT is exported and sent to the VFX team on a shot by shot basis?

I guess this is just something I need to see to fully understand how the whole process works.

Thanks again.
 
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I'm right there with you.. not sure the ideal workflow. Seems to me coloring should happen last, but VFX can't really work on a completely ungraded shot either.


I guess the other option would be to provide original log footage, and a final grade LUT to VFX, and have them use that, and render out with it applied, then the colorist can just apply a 'look' to it as needed. *shrug*
 
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Will Vincent said:
I'm right there with you.. not sure the ideal workflow. Seems to me coloring should happen last, but VFX can't really work on a completely ungraded shot either.


I guess the other option would be to provide original log footage, and a final grade LUT to VFX, and have them use that, and render out with it applied, then the colorist can just apply a 'look' to it as needed. *shrug*
Click to expand...

VFX uses the ungraded footage as input, and works on top of that, but they view everything through a LUT. In Nuke this is made very easy, you can just toggle a LUT in your viewer that changes what you see, but doesn't interfere with the actual footage that is being processed.

This way VFX can still work on the original plates and render ungraded plates (thus deliver highest quality and maximum flexibility for changes in grading later), while still having a good view of what they're doing.
 
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Thanks for that input. Sorry if I am a bit slow getting this.

So they work on ungraded footage. Got it.
This footage is viewed,not altered, via a lut. Got it.
So they want to add an explosion, from Action Essentials let's say, that is not log. How does this part work?

One thing to note,I am looking at this from an After Effects angle which is layer based... I believe Nuke is node based? Does this make a huge difference in workflow?

Well I guess if I ever get to the point to where I can hire out VFX effects they will let me know what to give them.

Again thanks everyone for the info :)
 
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jj4vr said:
Thanks for that input. Sorry if I am a bit slow getting this.

So they work on ungraded footage. Got it.
This footage is viewed,not altered, via a lut. Got it.
So they want to add an explosion, from Action Essentials let's say, that is not log. How does this part work?

One thing to note,I am looking at this from an After Effects angle which is layer based... I believe Nuke is node based? Does this make a huge difference in workflow?

Well I guess if I ever get to the point to where I can hire out VFX effects they will let me know what to give them.

Again thanks everyone for the info :)
Click to expand...

Well...., hard to say, but if you're going to add elements in with compression the benefits of this workflow are pretty much nihil. Stuff like the action essential packages are nice for home-video use, but there is a reason why post houses create their own stuff. Higher quality, and full control over the look.

However, to answer your question. As a VFX artist, you view the original ungraded plate through a LUT, you then merge over the Action essentials explosion. Since this is already graded, its going to get graded twice, so it'll look out of place. So you'll have to grade it in your vfx package to match the plate. Once you've got that, grade the entire thing when you are actually in grading.
However, since you'll lack a lot of bit-depth on part of your footage, the grading options for your entire shot will be limited by this.

The drawback of this approach is that part of your footage is going to look shitty when graded, and you're going to grade that twice (first towards the flat image, then back to the final colors).
The better option in this case would be to have the colorist grade the original footage, take that grade into your vfx package, then add the explosion and match that to the grade: that way you grade your weakest link only once.

If you're ever in the position where you have to give a VFX dept. something, just give them good looking, steady, original camera footage. I wouldn't recommend giving the Action Essentials stuff, ain't nobody interested in that. //final thought: One fatal mistake i've seen people make a lot is that they do not add camera shake in post. working with shaky footage makes everyones life hard, and adding shake in post is a breeze.
 
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I only used the Action Essentials because of the earlier example, but it never clicked in my head that post houses create their own effects. Duh! I assumed Action Essentials wasn't used in post houses but for some reason never got all the way to "Hello McFly! They create/use their own assets as needed to fit!"

"The better option in this case would be to have the colorist grade the original footage, take that grade into your vfx package, then add the explosion and match that to the grade: that way you grade your weakest link only once." This is what we currently do since we are a very small team.. me being the only one that does any post work.

Awesome explanation. Light bulb officially has come on!
 
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Okay thanks, but there is something I am not understand though. Why not just add the VFX first before grading, and then grade the whole finished picture after only once, if none of it is graded to being with? Unless you are saying that the VFX from action essentials is already graded to begin with, and you first have to degrade it, to match your flat picture out of the camera?
 
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Okay thanks. I am ready to hire a colorist. I notice that in a movie, on everyone's TV or computer the footage looks different. Some TVs have it too dark, some too bright, some too saturated. I want our short film to look good on all TVs, generally.

When I pay the colorist, how will I know that the footage looks good on all TVs? We want to make sure we get our moneys worth. Like a couple of years for example, I hired an audio engineer, and the short film sounded great on her system. Then when I payed her, got the sound, and played it back on other TVs, it sounded like crap.

I don't want to have it look good on the colorist's TV, but have it look bad on all others, once I have payed, and get bamboozled. So how do I know it will look good on other TVs, do I just take a sample and play it back on several, before paying him/her to do the rest?
 
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