Pro8mm Debacle

sonnyboo

sonnyboo

Hello all, as many know I am a major fan of Super 8 film and using it as a tool for advancing knowledge of shooting on film.

I have used Pro8mm for a few projects, and the treatment my partner and I experiences on this latest project has been unbearable. We bought one of their packages of 4 rolls of film, processing, and telecine. We chose 4 rolls of 50D (daylight) since it was for 100% Noon, outdoor scenes in June.

During the shoot, two of the rolls only measured out to 40ft worth of film on my camera. We only used 3 of the 4 rolls on the short we were doing on my Nikon R10 super 8 camera. The 4th roll was used to test my friend's Beaulieu super 8 camera too.


When we got the footage back it was horrid. For an allegedly professional, supervised telecine session, there were colour changes mid-scene, and far more important - a constant jitter throughout. When asked about it, their first response is "it was your camera - obviously." Then we pointed out.. well we used 2 different cameras... "then it was the cartridge". Well then okay, but isn't that still your fault? "no. It's your camera(s)!"

What we tried to point out then is that we had just used this camera on HORRORS OF WAR (CLICK HERE) and had a telecine done with FILM & VIDEO TRANSFERS (www.thetransferstation)and it had no jitter and looked amazing.



I have only had 1 good experience with Pro8mm, but now I can say that unless you are Oliver Stone - DO NOT USE PRO8. They will not give a rat's ass about the independents no matter how much they advertise in MOVIEMAKER and say so in interviews. They want the $$$ and they don't care about the work of little guys.

Super 8 may still be used, but Pro8mm (former Super 8 Sound) is NOT going to get my money ever again.


- Peter John Ross
Sonnyboo.com - your home for Nude Pix of Margaret Thatcher!!!!
 
I just nipped over to look at their package-pricing.

They sent you four crappy-quality cartridges of film to use, a BS job on colour correction, an unusable 'cine and presumably some emails/phonecalls telling you to bugger off about the problems?

That's quite a deal for 300-ish dollars!

Next time just send the money direct to me. I won't give you anything for it either, but at least I'll tell you that up front so you won't waste your time actually expecting something for it.

They must have enough clowns working at Pro8 to qualify as a Barnum & Bailey circus spectacular. Hmmm... now that's an idea....

(Plotting evil plan)
 
So glad I read this post. I had planned to give them 8mm footage from my wedding for transfer to DV. But now that I hear they've done this, I will take my business elsewhere (www.thetransferstation.com is looking good right about now).

God, I love the Internet. Thanks for posting this, Sonnyboo.
 
I've had nothing but trouble from them since my first feature in 1989.

We did an $80,000 feature on Super8 back when they were still Super8Sound and desperate for filmmakers to shoot features on Super8. Mark Pirro was on staff then, and one of the few filmmakers doing it.

They were condescending, unprofessional, wouldn't back up their poor rental equipment with equipment that worked.

I tried working with them again in 1996 - same deal.
I gave them one last chance in 2001 and had a very similar experience to yours, Peter.

Poorly loaded cartridges (6 different cartridges that showed the exact same scratches - even when used on five different cameras) , dreadful transfers, holier-than-thou customer service...

I would LOVE to shoot a feature on Super8. But I sure won't work with Pro 8.
 
Parodies
smiley_patriot.gif


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Interview - Philippe Vonegut, President and C.E.O. of Par8mm
By BSN NETWORK

Published: July 29, 2004

Filed at 05:53 p.m. PT

LOS ANGELES (BSN) -- "People just don't know what they want," chuckled film-guru Philippe Vonegut. "I've been in the business for over 10 years, and sometimes it's not easy making people realise that we know what is best for them... but we do our darndest."

Thus began the tour of Par8mm's Burbank facilities, which handles film processing, telecine, and many innovative techniques used on film. "Literally minutes of thought have gone into each stage of our 'packages' that we offer," Philippe exclaimed proudly as we approached our first stop.

"Our unique method of cartridge assembly is ground-breaking. Ever since 'Blair Witch' became a success with its shakey jumpy shots and scratchy grain, we've gone out of our way to make sure every cartridge we pack is a bit... sticky. This ensures that all footage taken will have that jittery look that all indie filmmakers require these days."

I suggested that perhaps some indie cinematogrophers might actually be looking to produce a smooth, clean stable image. This was met with a broad guffaw of laughter, quickly followed by a match striking up a cigar. Puffing away on the expensive Cuban stogie in the sterile film-packing environment, he quickly countered with, "Well... I suppose there are *some* indie filmmakers who have delusions of doing something 'professional'... but I don't see them paying professional prices here. They'll like what I send 'em"

As the calliope music softly played over the background speakers, we continued our tour. Next stop was where returned film was processed. Tipping an ash from the cigar, Philippe opened the door which lead into a room entirely lit by red-tinted sunlamps. I followed, and he started a brief description of the quality that went into developing.

"Indie filmmakers tend to be a non-serious, 'arty' crowd," Philippe continued. "As such, we came up with a developing process that they could relate to... arty and such." He paused a moment to expectorate into a tub of chemicals where a jumbled tangle of exposed film lay. "Something *all* arty-people have in common, is their love of Andy Warhol. Bit of a poof, no doubt, but that's arties for ya."

"Now, Warhol had some crazy ideas that were definitely ahead of his time... and we've incorporated them into the development cycle here. Back in the '80s, he put out a series of paintings painted in metal-based paint that guests at his drug-fueled parties could pee on. The reaction of the PH levels in urine on metallic paint caused all kinds of crazy colour changes. Kinda like a film of water on oil... but this was art! Art is what indies love. They do indeed. So here in our development chamber, we have a pet dog Rover that is trained to tinkle into each tub of chemicals."

That would explain a bit about odd colour shifts I had heard reports of, I guessed. The logic behind this was fairly sturdy, too. Film is art. Warhol was famous for art. Warhol peed on his paintings. People loved the paintings.

We left for our next destination, which was the telecine room. This was the first room I had been in which was actually staffed at the time. I was introduced to Chappy the Cowboy Clown and his pet chimpanzee Bubbles. One was seated at the actual telecine machine iteslf, and the other at the sophisticated bank of computers. As we watched an actual 'cine was in progress.

Chappy was using a handcrank to rotate the film reel at the telecine. I believe (in spite of the remarkably well-painted happy face and red rubber nose) that he was suffering from an advanced form of arthritis. This was due to the uneven, painful-looking erratic jerks that his hands made as the reel rotated.

"This is where the magic *really* starts," whispered Philippe. "Watch the chimp."

With a piercing shriek, Bubbles began punching various buttons on the computer that controlled the video half of the 'cine process. A myriad of colours flashed over the video monitors in rapid succession. The monitor was labeled 'Colour Correction Progress'.

Philip started up once again. "That chimp has been specially trained to use our incredible new colour correction system that had specially designed. It's called 'Pollack Particles'.

I gave an odd look and asked if that had been named after Jackson Pollack, the artist who had made a name for himself by splattering random gobs of randomly coloured paint on canvas, in a random method.

He gave a broad grin, toked up on the cigar again and replied, "Why yes! Once again, it's all about the arty-farty side of filmmaking. You think indie filmmakers would get all excited if their film came back looking plain-Jane the way the viewfinder said it looked? Where's the mystery... the suspense... the antincipation of seeing the finished footage, even!"

"This special colour correction system changes hues every few seconds to make the film feel more.. special. The chimp does the real important stuff. That random banging on the keyboard sets the original algorithm, which is stored and can't be used again. This means no two pieces of footage will ever have the exact same 'look'. They'll do a double-take when they see it."

There was a bit more detail about the process... mostly covering how the 'cine was a great investment tool. Every two 'cines done paid for 6 months at an exclusive golf club. (Incidentally, the reason the company is named 'Par8mm'... 8 is his handicap at afore-mentioned golf club)

I asked why the rates seemed to be substantially higher than other similar services. I was told it was partly due to the special tricks and techniques lovingly applied to each reel sent in... and mainly because there was a remarkably low repeat-business aspect to the company. "Get 'em while you can!" he chortled.

This pretty much concluded the end of the tour, and I returned to Anaheim to file this report.


Par8mm Specials This Month:

Running a magnet along the sound stripe of Soper-8 - free

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cyan said:
So glad I read this post. I had planned to give them 8mm footage from my wedding for transfer to DV. But now that I hear they've done this, I will take my business elsewhere (www.thetransferstation.com is looking good right about now).

God, I love the Internet. Thanks for posting this, Sonnyboo.
Click to expand...

Thus far every singel experience with www.thetransferstation.com has been exemplary. THeir prices are phenomenal for the service they provide and the quality of film transfers is the BEST.
 
I was planning on buying some negative film since it has processing included from pro8mm for my film but having it transfered somewhere else. Does that sound like an OK idea? the telecine packages at pro8mm seem a bit overpriced anyway, no?
 
From what Mr Boo was saying it seemed that even the original film cartridges were crap, for lack of a better term :)
 
i was originally going to buy a super 8 camera, and after doing some pretty extensive research i decided i couldn't afford it. But i've heard about 100 complaints about Pro8mm before this one. Fak 'em.
 
I agree, Pro8mm quality and customer service is some of the worst in the industry. The forums have much to say about Pro8 in this regard.

I recently found that a new place, Spectra, fills the void quite nicely. "Spectra American Color Labs" recently reformed as "Spectra Film and Video" and relocated with new services. This includes some of the best E-6 ektachrome/velvia, ECN-2 color neg and black and white processing in the industry.

They specialize in high end, quality 35mm and 16mm processing and telecine dailies. But, they are now offering this expertise for the super 8 format as well. They even have an inventory of fresh films from Kodak (including Kodak's new Vision2 500 and 200 ASA stocks for super 8) that they package together with their services at a good discount.

These guys know a great deal about film and how to get the best results. They did good for me and I would recommend them for others who need quality and consistency. ;) www.spectrafilmandvideo.com
 
Thanks boo for posting this. Yeah I've heard to much about Pro8 to ever use them, but this is the nail on the coffin. I know you shoot alot of Super8 and know what your talking about. That's just stupid and unprofessional what they did to you.

I was looking on the Film&Video Transfers site and they look great! Great prices and like you said great images! I think I'll use them for my next telecine I have to do. Have you every had any 16mm 'cine through them? Just wondering as that's what I would have done. Thanks again for posting there link, never knew they were around. ;)
 
I did some 16mm color negative and black white super 8 for Horrors of War with Doug at FILM & VIDEO TRANSFERS last fall & he did a superb job.
 
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