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Need Suggestions for 1080p-2K @ 60p Progressive Movie Camera

C

cjagceo1

Hello!

This summer I will be filming my movie, "A Thousand Miles Away", and I have been trying to find a suitable camera to rent for the movie.

I am planning on distributing this movie in theaters, but after hours of googling I am unable to come up with the requirements or recommended resolutions or formats.

Anyhow, I am going to be renting a camera and I am not sure what is suitable for a movie. I need at least 1080p, I would perfer it saves in the Apple ProRes format, and would love if it can shoot at 60fps.

So in summary a couple quick questions:

What is the usual resolution of a regular movie theatre? (2K?)

Any suggestions on a good camera that takes 1080p at 60p? (With ProRes or another High Bitrate format?)

Thanks so much,
Reed Mayhew. CEO of Chicken Joe Acting Group.
 
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Thanks for your questions!

I'm not sure exactly how Im going to get it into theaters, I'm talking with distribution companies about that now... But I would like it to be hq enough so if it does get into theaters it won't need computer compromises to look good.

I'm willing to spend upto $300 a week. http://borrowlens.com has a great rating and a great selection. I'm planning on renting from there.

About the additional equipment... I'm not sure exactly what I need for a movie camera to use its "full potential", I saw that some people use external recorders to save to a high quality format via hdmi...

I just need enough additional equipment to make the shots look good. Lighting and stuff I already have covered, and the stock lens should be fine. The rest ill do in Final Cut Pro :

(Also, this is my first time doing a REAL movie. Most of my other videos have been filmed with point and shoots and have come out just fine. Obviously that won't cut it for this :D lol)
 
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Oh and I have a wonderful editing team. So i'm not worried so much about getting the raw footage to be extremely precise with how the final clips will look, as long as the raw footage is very detailed, low motion blur and 60p, they'll do the rest.

Example Clip from Point and Shoot Camera:
http://youtu.be/-j6wOetF2Kg (don't forget 1080P!)
 
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Sony FS700 does a high framerate at 1080p. Not ProRes, AVCHD, but it still looks pretty great. It's more than $300 a week I'm pretty sure, plus you need lenses.

Honestly, it'll be a stretch to find a 1080, 60p, ProRes or Lossless camera at $300 a week. It'll be a favor or a stellar deal to get that. 2K even more so.

Do you need that high resolution AND that high framerate AND that format? Compromise one area and you can probably do it.
 
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I don't really need ProRes. As long as the bit-rate is high enough so their isn't much quality loss, i'm good. I got two i7 3770K custom computers that can cluster and convert any video to ProRes, so that shouldn't be a problem!

I am going to need a lot of slow-motion, so 60p is the minimum I believe I need. I usually use optical flow, which works fine with 60p.

1080p is a necessity, from there I can use the i7s to upconvert with Compressor or something. (Which gives surprisingly beautiful results!) I dont need 4k, and 2K is close enough to 1080p I can just upconvert.

I saw this Sony NEX-VG20, and it looks decently priced and good quality! I looked up example YouTube videos and it seems to do just fine. Would this cut it?
 
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cjagceo1 said:
If you mean good enough quality wise, I always seem to somehow get my movies up to par! Haha :)

If you mean story wise, it's for kids and teens, so as long as you have something that's modern and appeals to them, its good enough. lol
Click to expand...

Ah ok, not busting your cojones or anything but have you done any films before? (Being nosey trying to find out more of you )
 
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cjagceo1 said:
Haha that's ok!

This is my first Professional movie. I've done lots of silly little videos and just simply playing around with Final Cut Pro... I did make a very snazzy Minecraft commercial for one of my servers. (I like managing servers as a side hobby)

Minecraft Commercial: http://www.youtu.be/j6cBlrR7zN8

But no, this is my first film. I'm excited!
Click to expand...

Ah cool, so again being nosey, who wrote the script? Hw do you know it's good enough to shoot? What makes you sure it will get distributed? Why rent a camera for that price when you could save a bit more and get one yourself?
 
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"Who wrote the script?" My friend wrote the script. She is a very good writer, and so far it looks amazing. I don't really know how to summarize the story, but it keeps you on edge and its not a typical adventure story.

"How do you know it's good enough to shoot?" As I noted above, its very unique and entertaining, and if you direct the movie well and pick the right actors, it should come out just fine.

"What makes you sure it will get distributed?" I distribute myself, then their's YouTube, I have an iTunes license, and making lots of phone calls! Haha

"Why rent a camera for that price when you could save a bit more and get one yourself?" Well considering the NEX-VG20 is about $2100 retail, and to rent it for a month is only $440, for me it ends up being cheaper to rent. I only need a month or less to film, since I am very efficient with my filming.
 
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cjagceo1 said:
Does anyone have an opinion on the Sony NEX-VG20 or the Sony NEX-VG30?
Click to expand...

It's not the camera, it's how you use it.

You know what's more important than the camera body and perfect slow motion? Lensing and lighting. I'd personally rather optical flow any slow motion, or down-res to 720 and use Compact Primes with a full lighting setup on a 5DmkIII than use a Phantom woth a $200 lens and little lighting.

VG20 or VG30 will be fine if you know how to use it to your advantage. I'd personally prefer an FS700, but depends on your max budget.
Keep in mind that the set dressing is much more important than the camera body, and that the set dressing, lensing, and lighting combined will 'sell' a cinema look that will actually get it accepted by cinema distibution - cinemas have quality control too :)

Slow-mo is a cool trick, but make sure it's supporting your story, and not just in there for the sake of looking cool :)
 
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jax_rox Thanks so much! Great advice and I totally agree.

I've looked at demo videos and it seems very good, so as you said all I need to perfect is the set and lighting!

I'd love to have the FS700 too, but sadly I am paying for all of this out of my own pocket and I'm in High School. So I have to compromise without loosing quality.

This movie is a mystery/adventure movie, so I will have a little bit of slow motion in the big ending battle scene, but preferably I want the 60p for the clarity.

I also want the 60p because I am toying with the idea of editing my movie to the new HFR (High Frame Rate - 48p) standard (which The Hobbit is using) because 5-10 years from now that will probably become a standard.


Most of our scenes are outside, so hopefully the natural lighting will be on our side. If not, I have tons of ways to adjust it to the correct lighting.

It's funny, but most professionals would be horrified by my procedures to record and edit, but however crazy or "un-professional" I am about recording and lighting, I always end up with a good result that looks stunning! haha :)

Again thanks everyone so much for your advice and comments!
 
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Few points here:

Consider doing what most films do and hire a seperate camera specifically for slow-motion. Ie, you might be able to use a nicely kitted out 5D or BMCC or FS100 for all your 'standard motion' stuff, and then bring in an FS700 or VG20 for a couple of days and get all your 'slow-motion' stuff.

Also, on the topic of 48fps: Firstly, shooting 60p is not the same as shooting 48fps, and interpolating 60p into 48fps would results in either dropped frames or slightly slowed motion. You can't select specific frame rates on most cameras below a certain price point.
Secondly, the whole 48fps thing is still up in the air. Jackson did it for The Hobbit, the reason being it negates a lot of issues with the 3D process, especially makes the actual watching of the 3D images much easier. 2D versions are released/shown in 24fps.
48fps makes potentially more sense in 3D because of the issues it solves, but in 2D films, you'll likely find similar criticism from that of The Hobbit's 48fps and how it 'looks like a soap opera', except that you're trying to make it look like a film ;)

Also, worry about the future later, worry about now, now. If you can get a decent 24fps package and get a 60fps package for your slowmo shots, do it. There are plenty of films, including super high budget ones, and even LOTR that are archived at 24fps.

And don't stress about your procedures - as Deakins says, 'how' you get there is subservient to 'what' the ifnal image looks like.
 
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I see your point... I'm very geeky and always into the latest stuff and the 48fps is probably not something I need right now. Lol!

Anyways I've been thinking about the renting, I really think it's going to be to much work and it's going to be a rip off.

So anyway, this might scare some of you but what if I got a nice dslr for $500 with 1080p @24fps? If it had a high bitrate, would it deliver good results?

Or

Is their any possible way I can get a decent camcorder that will take 1080p 24fps? I'm not aware of 1080p camcorders that have a nice lens that are under $1000. I've heard of huge success stories of people just using their dslr cameras at 1080p because it has a nice lens.


Would this work?
 
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Ok so I did a little more research on the whole dslr thing.

I think I'm going to get a Sony NEX 5r for $750. It takes 1080p @ 60p and 24p!

I don't know where I'm going to get the money for this (again, I'm just in high school!) but ill have to manage somehow.

I'm filming in the summer so I have some time.

This camera seems amazing especially for the price! It stores the videos in AVCHD around 25mbps so it's very detailed.

What's your opinion?
 
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