My First Movie ? Please tell me about the movie industry

Stewy

Stewy

I am new to this site and I’m about to make my first movie I’m a part of a lot of online production community’s like facebook and stuff, A lot of people on these sites are cinematographers talking about cameras what camera you should be using RED/Black Magic or what ever I could care less Because I’m filming a low budget film and doe it really matter If your selling it VOD people are watching it ether on there computer or I pad, maybe their watching it on the flat screen at home, even if I hade a big budget I don’t think I would film it with a expensive camera.

My thought is that everybody is trying to make there movie look like film but Digital is Digital and it looks Digital no matter how you film it with a digital camera,. Am I right, just look at the David Lynch movie Inland Empire witch was filmed on a Sony PD-150 in 29.97/60i NTSC witch is not even HD 1080i or 1080P or what ever and David Lynch is a Master maybe you did not like the story but did you see the cinematography in that movie and the Lighting was great and I saw that on a big screen.


My question is does it matter really?
Spend your money on cast and crew and advertisement, your not going to win best cinematographer at a film Fest. I think renting or buying those Cameras are a waist of money Its all about story If you got a great story that’s all it matters. I just see all these crappy Indie movies not to say my movie will be great, filmed on these expensive cameras and I think what a waist with what they spent they could have made 3 crappy movies and maybe one will be good.

Now are you going to tell me about why you filmed it with these expensive Cameras because you want to enter it in a Film Festival and that’s another topic.

Are film festivals really worth it?

If you ask me I would say it’s a waist of time I think its just a place where directors are blowing each other on what a great movie they have, but If your movie is really great try it but I think everybody thinks there film is great.

I see people all the time post things on these online film community’s saying look my film won a award at Banana Fest or some festival nobody herd of maybe out of somebody garage maybe it was an official entry in Sundance. WOW!

How many films are Official entry’s?
A lot now you can put a stupid logo on your box

Am I wrong?
People go to Film Fest. To find an audience and a Distributor but I don’t think it happens like that any more because there is so many of these Festivals I think its turned into a business, In the bigger Festivals you have people like Keanu reeves
Making Documentary’s and Movies so why are they going to accept your film and plus these big Movie company’s own these big film fest.

I just think those days are over getting a lot of money for a film like Clerks maybe it happens every once in a while to keep the fire so Indie filmmakers seem that they have a chance.

Am I wrong?

My last question

Its back on the topic of Cameras.
I see so many Kickstarter Indiegogo Projects that are asking a tone of money so they can make a short and the reason it cost them so much money is the Camera they use

I’m talking about I see Projects that are asking for 20 grand and higher for a short and reaching there Goal.

I think to myself Really 20,000.00 for a short that will make no money that they can say I entered it in a Film Festival.

Now this is something I think is fucking crazy!

Robert Rodriguez made a Movie that was shot on 16 mm for 7,000,00 and it was about 90 min I think

Astron 6 shot the movie ManBorg for 10,000.00 and I think FathersDay for 12,000.00

I think I covered every thing I wanted to say please tell me your thought because I’m just a beginner and want to speak to people that are more experience then me.
Tell me if I’m thinking of this wrong . I want to talk to other like minded Indie filmmakers.
 
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I agree with you it's meaningless to me when someone says their film won an award at some small festival that no one has ever heard of. I guess that's a good sign they at least got accepted and shown somewhere but it's not a sign that I'm going to love the film.

as far as camera, equipment, etc.. it's not just about telling a great story, there is a delivery medium at play here. One example people love to harp on here, but it's true, is sound quality. If you have bad sound and you can hear every time an audio track is laid down it is very distracting and it takes people out of that story you're trying to tell.

It also helps to have different lenses, or at least a wide range of focal length on a single zoom lens.
 
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Nope. You're pretty much spot on correct.

Camera doesn't matter at the no budget level.
Story matters at all budget, equipment, venue levels.
Winning or being selected at Hole-In-Wallville Film Festival doesn't matter.
And spending the price of a decent car for a short is folly.

Largely, non-professional no-budget indie filmmakers just wanna make a film whether anyone else wants to see it or not.
It's largely selfish motivation really.
Very few have any commercial ROI interests or approaches with their filmmaking.
So, if the casual observer views no-budget indie filmmaking as more of a kinduva expensive recreational hobby (perhaps the wisest approach) like ATV running about for the family, or owning horses just to own horses, or playing golf semi-seriously/recreationally then no-budget indie filmmaking makes more sense and isn't so bad.

But likewise, if a person wins at their regional barrel racing event - no one outside of their immediate family and Facebook friends is really gonna care.
 
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My advice:

Story over everything else.

Beware of gearheads, especially the ones in this forum.

You DON'T need large crews or cranes.

Sound is important.

The film business is brutal and ruthless. Develop thick skin.

Most any HD cam will do as long as auto functions can be shut off and operated manually and have jacks for external mikes.

DSLRs will suck time away from actual production. Unless you're a gearhead -- in this case the story is usually secondary to capturing impressive images.

-----------

You seem to be on the right track. Good luck.
 
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Stewy said:
I am new to this site and I’m about to make my first movie I’m a part of a lot of online production community’s like facebook and stuff, A lot of people on these sites are cinematographers talking about cameras what camera you should be using RED/Black Magic or what ever I could care less Because I’m filming a low budget film and doe it really matter If your selling it VOD people are watching it ether on there computer or I pad, maybe their watching it on the flat screen at home, even if I hade a big budget I don’t think I would film it with a expensive camera.
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Yup. More pixels ≠ better film.

My thought is that everybody is trying to make there movie look like film but Digital is Digital and it looks Digital no matter how you film it with a digital camera,. Am I right, just look at the David Lynch movie Inland Empire witch was filmed on a Sony PD-150 in 29.97/60i NTSC witch is not even HD 1080i or 1080P or what ever and David Lynch is a Master maybe you did not like the story but did you see the cinematography in that movie and the Lighting was great and I saw that on a big screen.
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Yup. On the dot. All you can do is try to get the best images you can staying within a reasonable price. Getting your digital camera to look like film barely matters, it sucks time out of other areas of production that are more important.


Spend your money on cast and crew and advertisement, your not going to win best cinematographer at a film Fest. I think renting or buying those Cameras are a waist of money Its all about story If you got a great story that’s all it matters. I just see all these crappy Indie movies not to say my movie will be great, filmed on these expensive cameras and I think what a waist with what they spent they could have made 3 crappy movies and maybe one will be good.
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Well, having a decent story is important, but what is really important is EXECUTION of that story. It doesn't matter if you have an awesome story, if you shoot it, edit it, and record it poorly, it won't matter how good your script was. I'm not necessarily saying that you need top-notch cast/crew and gear, but to use the available resources that you can get to, and use them to their full potential.


Are film festivals really worth it?
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Unknown festivals are almost pointless. Festivals like SXSW or Slamdance are good if you can get into them, and if you can, go ahead. But chances of getting into film festivals are slim and it's usually not worth it to put your money towards something you're not going to get anything out of.

Now this is something I think is fucking crazy!
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HELL YEAH! Crowd-funding sites are abused, and people could significantly cut back on their campaign goals if they stopped adding up money for gear. Although the mass majority of people don't even reach their goals, so...

Tell me if I’m thinking of this wrong . I want to talk to other like minded Indie filmmakers.
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Nope. Your head's in the right place.
 
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In film it is all about the story. Take a look at Budapest Hotel where rhey shoot a period piece in 1.33 aspect ratio.
Some stories ask for 16mm,some.for super crisp digital look,some for soft digital,various lenses,stocks,cameras,filters,movements etc. All of this is the language of cinema and is planned vigorously. To say why do you need red when you have iphone is just absurd.

However I do agree that if u are a broke,indie filmmaker and have no chance of sourcing funds to rent super cool camera which your story needs,than the question is why did you write/choose a script that you can not film?

Rodgriguez El Mariarchi is a great example (and a must hear commentary) on how to make an indie,however bear in mind he had insane connections througb the lead actor,getting real guns,cars,multiple locations for free. So eve though he spent 7K cash,it was not equal to 7K prpduction value. + s16mm is an amazing quality format,lets say not alexa,but blackmagic.

#Cliffs,you should match the story to your available resources.
 
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A good story is an important starting point. After that it's all about execution.

Acting is a huge component of that - bad acting will sink your film no matter how good the story or anything else is.

I'd say the most important technical aspect of execution is simply not to be distracting, for either sound or picture.

So have your picture in focus, have it exposed properly, keep it consistent within each shot as well as from shot to shot and scene to scene. Get the white balance correct, and consistent as well. Don't do too many unnecessary or unmotivated camera moves, zooms, etc and don't let it be too shaky. Have enough light that the audience can see what's going on; make sure the lighting looks like it's part of the scene and not something artificial.

Make sure your dialogue is intelligible, and your levels are consistent from shot to shot and scene to scene. Don't have too much background noise - minimize that and echo by getting the mic as close to the actors as possible. Avoid mic handling noise, wind noise, etc. Make sure the music doesn't overwhelm the dialogue. Make sure the ambient noise doesn't audibly jump with cuts.

In other words - avoid anything that will distract your audience from the story and acting and pull them out of the experience by drawing their attention to the technical aspects.

The thing about all the stuff I listed is that none of it is specific to any particular equipment. From an iPhone to a Red, all of it is equally applicable. You can achieve all of that with pretty basic equipment - it's about how you use the equipment more than the equipment itself. And the best equipment won't matter if you don't know how to use it well enough to hit those basics.

Beyond that is where the art comes in - and it's entirely up to you to determine how important the various aspects of the art are to your production.
 
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thanks for the information

Who needs film school when you have this site Thanks. Some good tips I know sound is most important with a good story that’s easy to follow with 5 ho hos and one oh shit to keep the story interesting but I think some people miss understand me When I said I think most people are WATCHING movies on their Iphone Ipad or computer I said nothing about filming a movie with a Iphone.

What I meant is any semi pro 3 chip Camera would be find.

Another point is if you spend all that money on a camera with a so so story that you wrote that might suck just take that money employ some screenwriters and some actors that have some experiences and make a good movie.

We as indie filmmakers need to support indie Artist from screenwriting to actors and crew and build a crew/ production and forget about that market that’s trying to sell you the latest bla bla bla

Thanks Everybody looking forward to talking with you

Sincerely

Stewy J
 
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I forgot

I read Rebel without a Crew by Robert Rodriguez and he did not have any connection as for a distributor he was shopping around and nobody really wanted it/bad deals and someone finally bit in Hollywood.

If your talking about the actors connection man the acting was not that good just had a good story with good Edits, he said he borrowed the Camera but said it was a pain in the ass to edit and could not wait for the digital era were you can do it all on a computer and that shooting film is like painting a picture with the lights off.

As for location,guns and all that everybody has friends and more than enuf with social Media you can get a lot of things for free so no excuses, Shut up and shoot was great advice to me a long time ago

So If Robert Rodriguez was a nobody and just starting today he would have definitely shot it on a Semi Pro Camera
and it would have been way easier but it would probably not be as popular today as it was back in the day.
 
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That was in the stone age of indie filmmaking and is completely irrelevant to contemporary indie filmmaking.

'El Mariachi' today would be just another wave in the ocean.
 
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Stewy said:
Spend your money on cast and crew and advertisement, your not going to win best cinematographer at a film Fest. I think renting or buying those Cameras are a waist of money
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Okay, I'll assume that English is your second language. The word you want is WASTE.

waste
verb (used with object)

1. to consume, spend, or employ uselessly or without adequate return; use to no avail or profit; squander: to waste money; to waste words.

waist
noun

1. the part of the body in humans between the ribs and the hips, usually the narrowest part of the torso.



Now, onto your questions and comments...

Stewy said:
Spend your money on cast and crew and advertisement, your not going to win best cinematographer at a film Fest.
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Actually, that depends; if you have a great DoP/Cinematographer - and great lighting, and great sets, and great set dressing, and... - you just might win Best Cinematographer if the festival has such as award.


As others have said, your job is to be a storyteller. That's where it all begins, with a compelling script. But filmmaking is a team sport. There are just too many filmmaking disciplines for one person to master; you must rely on others to assist you with preproduction, the shoot and post. So spending your money on hiring others to do things for you is not a waste of money; you are hiring talent, knowledge, skill and experience. Would you rather do the audio post work yourself, or would you rather have someone like APE (AudioPostExpert) or myself (I have 12+ years of audio post experience in addition to 25+ years of other audio experience) handle dialog editing, Foley, sound effects and rerecording, or even a specialist for each of those audio post crafts? Now multiply that with the DoP, Grip, Gaffer, H/MU, set design, set dressing, editing, CGI, etc., etc., etc. on through the rest of the multiplicity of filmmaking disciplines; won't that improve the technical quality of your film?

Yes, there is an overabundance of film festivals out there. Although some here disagree, in my opinion getting your film into even a small local or regional festival is a step in the right direction; it tells you that you are at the least headed in the correct direction. More importantly, it gets your film in front of a (hopefully) unbiased audience where you can gauge the reaction of the audience to your work. Honest feedback is essential to improvement.


I'll leave you with my very biased advice...

Your film will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience."
 
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To make a feature good enough to get into a tier one festival (e.g. Sundance) takes big $$$$$$$$$$,

Even a decent sound capture and mix costs the hiring of pro gear, a pro sound crew AND likely $50,000+ for audio post, 5-1 mix etc...

Most features shown at Sundance are $1m+ budget affairs these days.

Even Shorts selected for screening at tier one festivals often have a decent amount of $$$ behind them. Many are made by production companies with tier one indie gear (Red and Arri cameras etc), a good 5.1 sound mxi etc. There are low budget exceptions but they're that - exceptions, not the norm.
 
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