Just bought Canon 814 Super 8! Am I nuts? Some advice please.

msp1518

msp1518

I must be nuts because today I just decided I needed to learn how to shoot film and bought a Canon 814 Electronic Super 8 Movie Camera. It was just $22 and the eBay seller is 100% so maybe I will be okay. From description...
seems to work at all frame rates (18, 24, slow motion and single frame). The camera runs on 4 AA batteries. The auto iris seems to work nicely and the lens appears clear and scratch/fungus free. The cover for the lens barrel has been removed, see pic, so you don't get the focus marks on the lens. You shouldn't rely on this anyway...use the split-focus system in the viewfinder for best results.
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I love 1.78:1 and have seen amazing footage online of widescreen footage shot by Super 8 cameras but little as to how it can be achieved. I do see lenses are out there, but can be very hard to find (maybe because I am not looking in the right place?).

Machining the gate out to achieve a 1.58:1 aspect ratio has also been mentioned here. What would that cost?

I'm a complete newbie to this. Despite shooting my short film on Super16 9 years ago, i know jack about film photography. I relied on my DP (and he delivered).

At my age it is about time I learned so i am motivated, but would love to advice, points in the right direction, etc.

I've read about the Braun Nizo S80 and 136KL and wonder how they compare to the Canon I just bought. These two seem to be available in refurbished, repaired and cleaned units for around $120 to $175 with warranties.

This is all that comes to mind right no. god help me. :blush:
 
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Canon 814's are awesome. :cool:

Don't know the other cameras.

There are several places that can widen some gates to a 16:9. Dunno how much that costs. Not all cameras can be altered like that. Pro8mm does some conversions (and also sells their custom ones) for too much. (They're just expensive in general)

Go-go Super-8 !
 
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Thanks, guys. Did a lot of reading over night and it seems it would be better to get lucky and find an anamorphic lens. Those 2.54:1 jobs are way too wide for me. I could make BEN-HUR! 2:1 would make much more sense. FInding one that does 1.78:1 would be hitting the lottery.

I need to find a place in NYC to buy film. I'd assume B&H Photo might be a place to start, but there is likely some place more FILM based that I should find. Steep learning curve here.

Oh, I actually bought two of these. The seller had two and at that price, figured i could use one for parts or as a spare. Whichever is in the best shape is the one i will use.

Talked to some friends last night and they all think I am certifiable. "You're nuts! Film is expensive!" Well this ain't 35mm so it's not that bad. But yeah, i am a little nuts.
 
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B&H Photo charges $15 to $20 depending on which type. Didn't realize you could order direct from Kodak so I'll check that out.

I have so much to learn. I am 100% in the dark, like a baby, but hope to be able to get up to speed as fast as possible. I'm thinking of looking for some kind of class (short-term) locally, if there is such a thing.
 
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msp1518 said:
I love 1.78:1 and have seen amazing footage online of widescreen footage shot by Super 8 cameras but little as to how it can be achieved. I do see lenses are out there, but can be very hard to find (maybe because I am not looking in the right place?).

Machining the gate out to achieve a 1.58:1 aspect ratio has also been mentioned here. What would that cost?

I'm a complete newbie to this. Despite shooting my short film on Super16 9 years ago, i know jack about film photography. I relied on my DP (and he delivered).
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Congrats! I have the Canon 814 E too and I love it, it's a great camera.
how to achieve "widescreen" is an issue that I'm facing right now too, as I plan on shooting my next short on Super 8 but want it to be 16:9.
So yeah, basically there are three ways, two of which you already mentioned. 1. The widening of the film gate (I think it's called "super-duper 8"). 2. Using anamorphic lenses. Those are arguably the best ("most professional") options but lead to further problems. Using an anamorphic lense will require the use of another lens to "unsqueeze" the footage when being projected/transfered, I'm no expert on this, I'm sure someone on this forum knows more about it. *cough* Directorik *cough*
The 3rd option (which I'm considering for my next project) is to shoot in ~4:3 and cutting top & bottom to achieve the 16:9 ratio, that's of course a littly risky and you have to frame each shot very carefully.
 
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Option 3 can work, though you lose resolution. Best to keep a common top line and just crop the bottom. That way you can line up the top of the frame easily. Of course, you have to explain this to the place that transfers your negatives to HD.

With anamorphic footage whoever transfers your footage can likely make it proper 16x9 so there is no squeeze issue. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Murdock, I checked Kodak's website and came up empty. Went to B&H today and bought one Ektachrome 100D.

I still don't understand reversal neg vs neg and all that. I'm clueless and have to start from scratch.
 
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msp1518 said:
I checked Kodak's website and came up empty.
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Kodak's website is pretty terrible, tbh. No way to place an order online.

However, it's easy enough to call them up & place an order that way. You just need to know what stock you want, & they'll take your CC# over the phone.

Here's your current stock choices for Super-8:

http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motio...light_on_Super_8/Super_8mm_Products/index.htm

Other useful links to bookmark ('cos the website is terrible to navigate)

http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Products/Product_Information/index.htm

http://motion.kodak.com/US/en/motion/Products/Product_Information/Ordering_Info/index.htm


don't understand reversal neg vs neg and all that
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Reversal can be played through a projector or viewer, directly after it's been processed.

Negative comes out in all kinds of funky colours (ie: just like a negative b/w slide, where the whites & blacks are backwards - but in crazy colour) and looks ridiculous. It needs to be converted to a watchable state, which for most modest purposes is digitally done with the flick of a switch when the processed film is being telecined to miniDV tape or a harddrive.

Went to B&H today and bought one Ektachrome 100D
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Do the math, before sending out a single roll to be processed & 'cined. Most places have a minimum charge that works out to be about 4 cartridges-worth of time.

Have fun!
 
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Kodak doesn’t have online ordering. As Zensteve says, you need to
call. I think you’ll find the prices aren’t cheaper than buying
elsewhere.

To fully understand the difference between negative and reversal
stock there are several on line resources. What you decide to
shoot depends on many different factors - the stocks are very
different.

To elaborate a little on Zen’s advice: many labs will offer a
package deal of stock, processing and telecine and they usually do
it with multiple rolls - 4 is average. I know Yale here in L.A.
offers a one cartridge “test” package so I’m thinking other places
might to the same. Yale does a great job and they ship...

bhikkhu is correct about anamorphic. I have the 814, too (great
camera and the Nizo s80 (another great camera) but only my
Beaulieu 4008 has the anamorphic lens. The image is squeezed onto
the film and will need to be unsqueezed when transferring to DV.

BTW; when you shot super16 your DP used negative stock so you are
probably a little more familiar with it than you think.
 
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I've heard talk of anamorphic lenses for super 8 cameras. Assuming that you can find one, that it fits the Canon 814, or that the Canon has detachable lenses at all, how much more practical would this be?

EDIT: Oops, I guess I wasn't reading as carefully as I should have been...sorry...
 
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Stay away from Pro8. They will use sub-standard 35mm stock sometimes...get all your film from Kodak.

You can get an anamorphic setup for your Super-8, that will produce a wide screen effect...it's worth it. http://home.pacbell.net/mnyberg/super8mm/super8_39.html

Also, if you're recording audio, see if you can get a crystal sync for your camera, so your framerates for video and audio stay the same...or else you'll have a slightly dragging video which will be annoying and cause headaches.

Don't skimp on setting up proper lighting and exposure...do it right the first time. Nothing is worse than waiting a week for the results, to see that it's way blown out or under-exposed.
 
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M1chae1 said:
Also, if you're recording audio, see if you can get a crystal sync for your camera, so your framerates for video and audio stay the same...or else you'll have a slightly dragging video which will be annoying and cause headaches.
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That would be nice to have, but they sure aren't cheap...unless I'm looking in the wrong places...
 
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directorik said:
You're right, Hammer. Very little about shooting on film is cheap.
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Yeah and even worse, they don't seem to be interchangable with different cameras...better make sure you have one that's worth the investment first, then...

And speaking of the crystal sync, do cameras that were originally designed to shoot sound film need such a device, or do they get along fine without it?
 
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Hammerstone said:
And speaking of the crystal sync, do cameras that were originally designed to shoot sound film need such a device, or do they get along fine without it?
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Super 8 sound cameras recorded the audio to a
sound stripe on the film. Crystal sync is only needed
when using two different devises.
 
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Hammerstone said:
And speaking of the crystal sync, do cameras that were originally designed to shoot sound film need such a device, or do they get along fine without it?
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The point is moot!!:) They don't make sound film anymore, that I know of. Most of the cameras that I've seen, when looking for something to buy, that have sync motors are predominantly 16mm. You can get a S8 converted but I hear it can be pricey.
 
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