Is this idea good or even original?

[Musicdudez]

Well, I came up with an idea I liked but I don't know if it's unique. In most cases when I come up with ideas they tend to have already been told VERY similarly in some other movie so I just wanted some input on the idea. I also have a few ideas of how things are presented and such. The genre is supposed to be drama.

The movie starts with two siblings (twins) between the ages of 15-20 (undecided) who are living their everyday lives. They have a very close relationship. This is portrayed on the screen for 5-20 minutes as an introduction. This part ends when it's revealed to the audience that the brother is in fact dead and the girl is simply imagining his presence as a way of dealing with things.

The credits roll with some clips of when the twins were younger and playing around.

After the credits the parents are having a conversation with a therapist who tells them that this is simply the way their daughter is handling the incident and that they should play along until she gets better.

The story continues with how she lives this life, at home, in school and in town. Conflicts such as people telling or hinting at the fact that she's imagining things.

Of course it ends with her "realizing" that he is in fact dead (maybe have a flashback showing what happend, and no I have not came up with a reason for the brothers death). Personally I think it would be best if the "realization" kind of shows that she knew all along but she managed to live in her own world without people reaching into it.

Maybe this is an unoriginal and bad idea but I wanted to see what you guys thought at least because I know this forum is great at giving feedback.

 

[rayw]

The genre is supposed to be drama.
Drama = snooze-fest.

→ http://www.the-numbers.com/market/Genres/
Look at the number of drama films.
Look at their average return.
Draw your own (obvious) conclusion.

The movie starts with two siblings (twins) between the ages of 15-20 (undecided) who are living their everyday lives.
Snore.

They have a very close relationship. This is portrayed on the screen for 5-20 minutes as an introduction.
O.M.G.
Just kill me.
You want me or other people to sit and watch teens having a close relationship for five to twenty minutes AS AN INTRODUCTION?
I'll die of boredom.
Most people won't even watch five minutes of home video of their own family members.
These <laughing> had better be some pretty d@mn interesting, REALLY INTERESTING, siblings if this is going on for five to twenty minutes.

This part ends when it's revealed to the audience that the brother is in fact dead and the girl is simply imagining his presence as a way of dealing with things.
Cool. Fine.
Been done a billion times, but it's all in the execution.
Go for it.

(Just wrap up the whole thing in four to seven minutes!)

The credits roll with some clips of when the twins were younger and playing around.
That's fine.

After the credits the parents are having a conversation with a therapist who tells them that this is simply the way their daughter is handling the incident and that they should play along until she gets better.
Pretty stupid parents that couldn't figure that out.
BTW, what is the "this" the parents can't figure out since all of this has been going on in their daughter's memories?
Was she telling them the things she and her (big reveal!) deceased brother "have been doing together" recently?

The story continues with how she lives this life, at home, in school and in town. Conflicts such as people telling or hinting at the fact that she's imagining things.
Fine. Cool.
It's all in the execution, again.

Of course it ends with her "realizing" that he is in fact dead (maybe have a flashback showing what happend, and no I have not came up with a reason for the brothers death). Personally I think it would be best if the "realization" kind of shows that she knew all along but she managed to live in her own world without people reaching into it.
Screw that!
How about she chooses to maintain the disillusion even knowing it's all fantasy?

Maybe this is an unoriginal and bad idea but I wanted to see what you guys thought at least because I know this forum is great at giving feedback.

Yeah, it's not original, but that doesn't mean anything.

A story good for a single viewing is marginal.

A story you'd watch over and over again is interesting and good.

Will this story be worth watching more than once - or - will it be a "Been there. Done that. Wouldn't recommend this to my general facebook friends"?

 

[Musicdudez]

Lol, the idea feels so pointless now. xD I suppose I have to wait until I understand stories better. Thanks for being frank though

 

[rayw]

Tell me, what kind of films, what genres, do you find yourself watching repeatedly?

What are the last three films you've watched more than twice?

And "Why"? If you know how the story goes "Why?" would you watch it again?

 

[Musicdudez]

Tell me, what kind of films, what genres, do you find yourself watching repeatedly?

What are the last three films you've watched more than twice?

And "Why"? If you know how the story goes "Why?" would you watch it again?

Kick-ass, Hot Fuzz and Hugo Cabret.

Kick-ass because you relate to the character and you want to be him because unlike other superhero movies, Kick-ass is actually possible.

Hot Fuzz because you forget the jokes and you can remember them being very funny. It's very well executed and therefore you don't mind watching things you remember once more.

Hugo Cabret because the world is very engaging and unique. The story itself is very friendly (if that's even a proper word to describe a feeling in a movie) and you really like the characters.

 

[IndiePaul]

Your story has to be great.

The folks at the Academy's Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting gave this story advice recently:

No matter how we discuss or define the scoring criteria for the Academy Nicholl readers and judges, one criteria stands alone above all others - S-T-O-R-Y. Create a wonderful, intriguing story that causes readers to need to turn pages to find out what happens next - and you’ve written a script that will be noticed.

This isn’t to suggest that other criteria will be ignored when the story is good - as it is difficult to write an exceptional screenplay filled with an enticing story without engaging characters and dialogue, solid craft and execution and at least a modicum of originality - but some minor faults may be overlooked.

When we discuss story, we include a number of components - premise, subject matter, storytelling and conflict - and ask many questions, including but not limited to:

• Could the screenplay's premise be the starting point of a movie?
• How strong is the story, from start to finish?
• Does it make you want to keep reading?
• Do you care about the characters and the story?
• Is the story compelling? Is it entertaining?
• Does the story connect with you emotionally?
• Does it introduce stakes and goals for the characters?
• Does it place significant obstacles in their paths?
• Are you engaged throughout the script?

And to keep your reader/audience engaged your script should be filled with drama and conflict.

 

[rayw]

Kick-ass, Hot Fuzz and Hugo Cabret.

Cool. Great. Wonderful.

From your proposed story we can infer (sounds much better than "assume", eh?!) that your actor resources are: Two teens + Three adults.
Right?

And all sorts of town & country locations to theoretically shoot something in, right?

 

[Musicdudez]

Cool. Great. Wonderful.

From your proposed story we can infer (sounds much better than "assume", eh?!) that your actor resources are: Two teens + Three adults.
Right?

And all sorts of town & country locations to theoretically shoot something in, right?

Well, I pretty much have no resources but I think it's important to write every single idea down no matter how stupid it sounds. I just got very into the feeling of this idea hence I asked specifically this one time.

 

[rayw]

Well, I pretty much have no resources...

Alright, you gotta quit writing pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna make films.

Consider the talent, location, equipment, props & costumes, and budget resources that YOU DO HAVE (or can sensibly obtain) and write your stories with those in mind.

Write pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna write spec screenplays to sell or attract attention.

 

[matthattar]

I'll recommend MoviePoet.com as a tremendous resource and community to hone your screenplay writing skills. They have monthly themed short script challenges - If you are serious about getting started with screenwriting, and want to learn how to craft a story, that's a monthly challenge for you to hone your craft and get constant feedback from the community.

One of the coolest things to work up to is their yearly Feature Length contest - They start every January when contestants submit a logline...just a logline, one sentence to make everyone want to read the rest of your script. The community votes and the top 30 loglines make it to the next step, the first 10-pages of your screenplay. The top 10 in this contest then go on to submit their full length scripts, and the top winners are announced.

The best thing is, the whole way through, from logline to 10-pages to full length, the community FLOODS your work with their comments about what worked or didn't work. Of course, you have to have a thick skin and learn to filter out the good advice from the bad, but there are so many times when you'll have an epiphany based on what someone said and suddenly realize something about your writing that you couldn't see before. It's incredible.

The best thing I've taken away from that site is the LOGLINE: Whenever I have an idea for a story, I work very hard on a logline before I dive into writing...just one sentence about my movie to hook others into wanting to read the script/see the movie. I find that doing this helps me keep focus when writing the full script...I always have that logline to guide me toward the story I set out to tell.

There are also times when I've abandoned ideas just because I tried to write a logline and realized in the process that I didn't know what story I was trying to tell or why I even cared about that story. What value and relevance does this story have to me, let alone anyone else? Is it worth my time to really explore these characters that I've dreamed up? Writing is certainly a more soul-searching process than "Oh, it would be cool if this happened" which is where a lot of scripts seem to start.

Sorry for the long post - Hope some of it helped. Good luck to you!

 

[FantasySciFi]

Alright, you gotta quit writing pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna make films.

Consider the talent, location, equipment, props & costumes, and budget resources that YOU DO HAVE (or can sensibly obtain) and write your stories with those in mind.

Write pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna write spec screenplays to sell or attract attention.

There is an in-between space. Rayw always focuses on the practical, make-a-buck aspect. There is nothing wrong with that but unless you're thinking about distributing and monetizing your film from the get go, most new filmmakers are looking to rack up some experience.

There is nothing wrong writing stories that don't have action/superhero antics crammed in every second and following beat-by-beat patterns. "Pie-in-the-sky stories" are the dramas that win awards and get adapted from best sellers or tell touching, personal stories that typically don't appear in comic books.

I do agree with his advice that when writing for your own production, you need to be mindful of resources. However, it never fails to surprise me how a writer/director with conviction can pull on board others who can provide locations, equipment, props, costumes and even financial support. It's never a good idea to limit or stifle your creativity until you've created the script. Once that's down on paper, you can go out and drum up your resources. You set yourself a timeframe. Often actors will have contacts or resources they are willing to bring. The same with crew.

Being an indie filmmaker means being flexible and resourceful. With experience, you know where you can cut corners. Big studios need to recoup expenses, so they often have to go for bust with big productions. It's a 'locust model' of economics. Indies often can be more agile though not with the bigger pockets, so monies need go to essentials. In my opinion, networking is crucial for indie filmmakers. And often on this board, I'll see folks who are nearby offer to help each other with sound, lighting, and videography.

There are the 'art' and 'experimental' films that go into contests and festivals. They will never make money but they do allow the filmmaker the opportunity to experiment with technique. Often lots of death, dying, suicide and/or assorted monsters, zombies, gangstas with flashes of sex and nudity on screen.

In between are the films put out by medium independent studios. They manage to eek a profit from direct to DVD sales. Not lots of moola but usually enough to cover costs and then some. Many of them are never heard of unless you browse the shelves in the video store or they get onto Netflix.

A step above are your dramas and many 'high concept'. They tend to be more relationship focused. Yeah, lots are spec stuff that gets picked up to be made into Movie-of-the-Weeks (MOWs). They frequently serve as stepping stones for new actors and directors. Sometimes writers, but we tend to be behind the scenes unless we also direct. Here you see slightly higher budgets and fairly solid returns though disbursed over time, not as a lump sum. We're talking Sundance, Cannes, etc.

There are the 'blockbuster' and 'tentpole' films that are the fast food of Hollywood and a few film festivals. Their goal is to come in below budget and rake in lots of moola fast. This is kind of hit-or-miss since the demand for VFX is set so high. The odds of hitting it big as an indie in this arena are small.

Focus on creating your story first. Once you write it, then put on your director's hat, "What do I want this to look like." Finally, you put on your producer's hat, "What will it take to make this?" That's where and when you have to get very practical and creative. Funding and fundraising should be critical parts of your moviemaking process from day you put on your director's hat, "How will I sell this?".

Writing too closely to resources at the front limits your potential. But to be clear, I'm not saying you should write a movie neither you or anyone else can shoot! Write your story as it needs to be told. In the re-writes be ruthless and really ask, "Does this need to be included?". Everything in a story needs to justify its inclusion. As a director, you will also start to realize this can't be shot the way it's written. Things will need to be shifted. As you work with the actors, the dialogue problems will reveal themselves. There is a reason to bring on PAs, you increase your available resources.

As I said, I've seen production issues that mysteriously became non-issues as new resources presented themselves as if from thin air. There may be truth to the law of attraction. Obviously productions should be planned and budgeted but working from a solid script that you believe in, whatever its genre, it gives you a much better chance of being successful.

 

[rayw]

Fair enough. Certainly a more holistic POV than my admittedly bare knuckles approach.

Here are two examples of short screenplays.

This first one is complete pie-in-the-sky screenwriting on my behalf. There's no way I or anyone is going to be able to economically shoot this. Maybe in animation, but not in live action:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Bznn8D13zOOTQxYjliYjItOWFlYS00M2NmLWFhMjQtYWVkY2I3MTBhMWMw/edit

This second one... I might be able to pull off: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Bznn8D13zONzhjMDc0MzAtYTlmZS00ZjM5LTg3YmQtYzdjYTI2NGRkYTUx/edit
It's kind exactly what FSF just described above.

However, it never fails to surprise me how a writer/director with conviction can pull on board others who can provide locations, equipment, props, costumes and even financial support. It's never a good idea to limit or stifle your creativity until you've created the script.

Do I HAVE the talent resources to shoot this right now or when I wrote it? No.
But I COULD locate the talent if I felt motivated to do so.

So, should I have not written either of these?
Nah. I enjoyed them.
They were good exercise.
But at some point a writer/director needs to write what he or she can also produce.

 

[Jack Lynt]

Lol, the idea feels so pointless now. xD I suppose I have to wait until I understand stories better. Thanks for being frank though

That's unfortunate, if the story means something to you. As has been said by many and many times on this forum, every thing's pretty much been done already. I've come to think of that as a truism. But does that mean we beat our brains out trying to find something totally original despite knowing this truth? No. Does that mean we give up and only read, listen to, or watch old stories that have already been made? No. What a tragedy that would be. No, what you want to try and do is put your own original or fresh spin on things.

It reminds me a bit of an episode from what was once a very popular TV show in the States called Ally McBeal in which an older woman has an imaginary husband, lover, or partner. I remembered it as being like James Stewart and his companion, Harvey. Googling for that, the closest thing I've found is Season Two, Episode forty-five. But the synopsis doesn't sound much like that, so maybe I misremember.

And in Solaris (2002) there's that little bit of character story we hear from Rheya about her childhood imaginary friend whom her mother would speak to exclusively, while not speaking directly to her own, real daughter.

There are no doubt more examples. But the point is, yes, imaginary friends and imaginary others have been explored in stories before. But what hasn't been explored before? I for one find it intriguing. And if it intrigues you, and you want to explore it, then go for it. Though not required, it sounds like you thought you had something to say with it. Do. Or maybe you just want to see where it goes. Do.

=)

 

[kazze]

One thing I have realized...nothing we can come up with it is an original idea but its our telling of that story that will make it original.

Your story idea reminds me of a movie I saw years and years ago of twin boys and it was revealed later on that one of the boys had in fact died from falling into a well. It was unclear which twin, but one of them was evil and one was good and the evil one killed people...I think it was called The other...it was a strange story. The boys would talk and play games together and one was always coming up with ways to harm people. Images would come on screen of one of the boys dead in a well....Geeze, I will have to google that movie now.

 

[kazze]

My aunt says that Star Wars is basically a bible story and starts comparing the storyline to stories told in the bible...which match....the basic idea is good vs evil. The arch angel (Luke) vs Satan (DV)

 

[IndiePaul]

Great thread.

Alright, you gotta quit writing pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna make films.

Consider the talent, location, equipment, props & costumes, and budget resources that YOU DO HAVE (or can sensibly obtain) and write your stories with those in mind.

Write pie-in-the-sky stories if you're gonna write spec screenplays to sell or attract attention.

Vs

There is an in-between space. Rayw always focuses on the practical, make-a-buck aspect. There is nothing wrong with that but unless you're thinking about distributing and monetizing your film from the get go, most new filmmakers are looking to rack up some experience.

There is nothing wrong writing stories that don't have action/superhero antics crammed in every second and following beat-by-beat patterns. "Pie-in-the-sky stories" are the dramas that win awards and get adapted from best sellers or tell touching, personal stories that typically don't appear in comic books.
[sorry for cutting the rest of your excellent post FantasySciFi]

My 10 cents is that it depends on what the OP is planning on writing and their objective (to see their work on the big screen or sell their screenplay)...

Many new screenwriters pen a big budget screenplay as their first - be it a complex drama affair with multiple locations and talent, action, thriller, even Sci-Fi.

My view is that the OP needs to understand it's soooo incredibly difficult for a non-professional writer to get optioned or sell these days. Sure it does happen but they're the exceptional exception. Movies cost soooo must to produce ($20m+ for the average Hollywood feature) so the execs 99.9999% of the time will go with a professional screenwriter. Plus the studios want to invest in films with an already established fanbase in the millions hence movies based on best selling books or comics or events people identify with (Bridesmaids, Hangover etc) etc are getting green light. Original content still can sell but it's getting tougher and tougher.

If the OP wants to see his work on a screen, the best way is to write a story that they can create using their available resources - as outlined by rayw. FantasySciFi makes good points though too - if the OP can bring other people together, other locations and talent etc can become available. But be very mindful - there is a risk that that may not happen.

If the OP is hugely passionate about a particular big-budget type script then sure write it but understand it's chances of getting made in modern day Hollywood...

That's why after penning five big budget screenplays (some Finalists in contests, one a semifinalist in the Nicholl Fellowship - none of which made it to the big screen), I'm now writing stuff I can make myself based on the resources I have available or access to [so I'm travelling rayw's advice path - and we've actually been filming which is great: 1 feature 90% production done, 1 short 80% production done].

 

[Mister X 101]

Kazze its (the Other) from the 70's. Let's give Musicdudez some credit. it is hard to do something original without cliche'. I would make it into a psycho-thriller instead of drama. Cut to about 5 min of how strong their realationship was. The therepy comes in now. Tell the story from her point on how she believes her brother is alive. Make this an interaction between home and school. You can have a field day on how everybody sees her as just weird and how some feel sorry for her and want to help. The big key would be not to let the reader know that the twin is dead until a revealing climax. There can be a story told. Just have to place it in a different sense.