Is it worth getting a full frame camera?

[harmonica44]

I was thinking about selling my T2i, and getting something full frame for better quality, but only if it's worth it and it will pay off. I plan on doing a feature hopefully in the next two years. I will hire a DP but if for some reason we need a second camera, full frame, we will then have it, for whatever emergency. Even if the DP leaves in the middle of production for whatever reason I would still have it.

I plan on seeking distribution, at DVD level is my goal. And from there one hope to get noticed, and make enough money hopefully, and go from there. The question is, is the T2i good enough or would full frame REALLY REALLY help to break into the industry? More features are shot on full frame DSLRs compared to ones that are not. I only saw a trailer for one feature ever that was shot on T2i. One that I know for sure was, and I have been looking. But if full frame is worth it, than I want to buy now, since there are some good deals now on Canon 7Ds and what not.

I can just sell mine, and get one. The longer I wait, the less mine will sell for, and it already is not selling for near as much when I bought it. But will the Canon 7D still be popular enough to shoot full frame on with all these new 4k cameras coming out and all? In two years, would the industry much rather give a 7D movie a chance, compared to a T2i movie? Or is it not even worth buying a 1080p camera at all, if I am aiming for the next two years, cause expectations would have changed too much?

 

[chilipie]

a) The 7D isn't full-frame.
b) You've spent the last few months complaining about how you can't get everything in focus on your T2i - how on earth is moving to a larger sensor going to help you?
c) Perhaps consider actually finishing a sodding film before thinking about upgrading your camera.

 

[jax_rox]

I've seen great looking things shot on a Sony Z1. It's a 10 year old camera with a fixed lens and a 1/3" sensor.
28 Days Later was shot on an XL1s, a standard definition prosumer camcorder. Again, with a fixed lens and 1/3" sensor.

I've seen films that look like they were shot on 35mm that in actuality were shot on a Varicam with a Shoot35 adapter, and Panavision and Nikon lenses. The Varicam is a broadcast-type 2/3" sensor.

As chilipie has mentioned, the 7D isn't full frame. In fact, the 7D has an almost identical sensor to the T2i.

New gear is fun, but is it really making your film any better? A 7D will look identical to a T2i, and works almost identically. Why would you sell your camera to buy essentially the same camera at a higher cost?

In a few years time, I think the DSLR revolution will have moved on to more Blackmagic style cameras, purpose-designed for video shooting. Does that mean investing in a DSLR is a bad investment? It depends on what you want to use it for. If you're investing in a 7D so that it can sit in the cupboard for two years whilst you pre-produce your film, then yes it's a bad investment.

I'd also like to point out: full frame does not in any way equal better quality. 5D's are full frame, whereas S35 and S35 sensors are 'technically' not. Does that mean a 5D is better quality than an Alexa, RED Epic, or S35mm film? Absolutely not.

The look of the image comes down to the artistry of the people in charge of the image, not the camera itself.

 

[harmonica44]

Oh the guy at the camera store said the 7D was full frame. I guess he was wrong. A 5D is not better than a RED or an Alexa but it is better than a T2i quality wise. I would hire a DP though, it would not be me behind it. It's just a lot of DPs around here have DSLRs like mine, and was wondering if I should get something more. There are DPs that have higher quality cameras, but they are charging more.

 

[that1guyy]

People on this forum have often said the camera is less important than the other elements such as, script, sound, acting, etc. Upgrading your camera will not improve your films.

Also, it will actually be harder to focus with a full frame sensor.

You said DPs have cameras like yours. Do you want to be a DP? If no, then just stick with your camera. A t2i is great. I've seen some amazing work done with those.

Forget about all those random questions and things going through your head and just concentrate on making your film that you started with the resources you already have, not the ones that you think you need.

 

[jax_rox]

Forget about all those random questions and things going through your head and just concentrate on making your film that you started with the resources you already have, not the ones that you think you need.

This.

Walking into Filmtools and spending $200,000 on camera equipment does not make you a filmmaker. It just makes you a guy with a lot of expensive equipment.

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks, it's just a lot of movies that are shot on the T2i, don't get picked up so that makes me think the camera may have had something to do with it, or maybe it was something else. Or maybe a lot of movies just aren't picked up cause it's tough, and the equipment itself has nothing to do with it. The DP who wants to shoot an upcoming project with me says he seriously doubts the quality would be good enough for distribution if it's not shot full frame, but maybe he's wrong.

 

[icba pictures]

Okay thanks, it's just a lot of movies that are shot on the T2i, don't get picked up so that makes me think the camera may have had something to do with it, or maybe it was something else. Or maybe a lot of movies just aren't picked up cause it's tough, and the equipment itself has nothing to do with it. The DP who wants to shoot an upcoming project with me says he seriously doubts the quality would be good enough for distribution if it's not shot full frame, but maybe he's wrong.

Offer him incentive to buy the camera himself if its such a big deal to him. Or switch to a DP who's confident in his own skill at camera work with the equipment available. 1080 is 1080... Are you doing alot of FX.. going Bluray??? The writing, sound and acting... Don't get sidetracked by technology, it wastes your time and energy.

 

[jax_rox]

Sounds like your DP doesn't really know what he's talking about tbh.

I could understand if he was talking colour space, especially if you were doing FX heavy work, but even then I've seen 5D footage intercut with Alexa and a general audience member couldn't tell the difference.

A 5DmkII or mkIII is certainly a better camera than a T2i. But, your movie is not going to have any greater chance of being picked up by a distributor simply for the fact that it was shot on a 5D, rather than a T2i. Like Crazy was shot on a 7D, and that got picked up. How many movies shot on 5D, or even Scarlets and F3s never see the light of day?

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. And yes I would like blue ray distribution, and the movie would have a fair amount of FX. It's a suspense thriller, but some things will have to shown rather than just implied only. There is about five minutes that will definitely be heavy on FX.

 

[knightly]

The things being passed on for distribution to which you're referring that are shot on the t2i are being passed on for every reason other than the camera -- I guarantee it! Your camera is fine... I just spent a decade using an SD camera and getting REALLY nice footage out of it because I got critical focus... I made good frames... I learned blocking... I was really attacking learning lighting. Coincidentally, I got good footage with my VHS camera using these same techniques.

It's not the tool, it's the crafts person using it... the hammer doesn't build the house.

 

[MileCreations]

To give you a comparison. I have a Steadicam and have had it for about 1 1/2 years. My footage is often still a little wonky even when I think I've trimmed it right. Then I saw some footage of a Glidecam which looked perfect. For a little while I thought maybe they were better, but I kept practicing, and now (only in the last month or so) I think I've got my Steadicam almost perfect, so it wasn't the fact that it wasn't the right equipment, it was the fact that I just hadn't learnt enough about it yet

 

[harmonica44]

Okay thanks. What kind of steadicam is that you have?

And you think there would have been more movies shot on VHS cam, that got distributed. I mean if 480p works for today, why didn't VHS movies came out in the 90s. Sigh. Okay I'll keep my camera and ignore these sails I saw. I also let the DP put a scare into me. We'll use our T2i and T3i (his).

 

[MileCreations]

Okay thanks. What kind of steadicam is that you have?

Oops I mentally put that into the post. I have a Merlin, which is the cheapest in a long shot. Also to point out I use a t3i/600D on it but seriously did take me a year to learn. (And I wouldn't say I'm an expert at it yet!) I guess if I'd devoted a week to it 12hours a day or something I may have gotten it figured out in a smaller time frame.

Good luck H44!

 

[TheArtist]

Oops I mentally put that into the post. I have a Merlin, which is the cheapest in a long shot. Also to point out I use a t3i/600D on it but seriously did take me a year to learn. (And I wouldn't say I'm an expert at it yet!) I guess if I'd devoted a week to it 12hours a day or something I may have gotten it figured out in a smaller time frame.

Good luck H44!

Can we get some footage ?

What lens do you run on it ?

 

[Zensteve]

Then I saw some footage of a Glidecam which looked perfect. For a little while I thought maybe they were better,

I can guarantee that the "perfect" footage has been run through motion stablisers in post. Of course the smoother the original footage the better, and a Glidecam sure can assist with that, but what you're seein' ain't straight from the camera to YT.

 

[tomb378]

I've seen films shown at festivals that were done on iphones for gods sake, people put too much emphasis on new tech, granted new techonology makes the job easier, but it doesnt make you more creative. People seem to spend way too much time on the equipment websites looking at the latest cameras, alexa's or reds or whatever, rather than spending their time reading about lighting techniques or polishing their scripts, and IMO the one thing that makes a film look more amateur than anything is bad lighting and undeveloped script, not a camera that is slightly out of date or not high quality as a RED, anyway rant over sorry if i have jumped on this a little bit late and the OP has decided against it haha

 

[jax_rox]

I can guarantee that the "perfect" footage has been run through motion stablisers in post. Of course the smoother the original footage the better, and a Glidecam sure can assist with that, but what you're seein' ain't straight from the camera to YT.

Depends what it was. An experienced steadiop can get you perfectly smooth shots. That's why they get paid so much money - it's a specialised artform that only very few know how to do properly. Anyone can buy a glidecam or a Merlin and give it a crack, but I've never seen footage from a trained, professional steadiop that had to be run through stabilisation because it wasn't smooth enough.

Professionals get paid because they've trained and spent copious amounts of time learning and perfecting their craft.
They don't get paid because they have expensive gear, at least from the mid-end of narrative production upwards.

 

[MileCreations]

Depends what it was. An experienced steadiop can get you perfectly smooth shots. That's why they get paid so much money - it's a specialised artform that only very few know how to do properly. Anyone can buy a glidecam or a Merlin and give it a crack, but I've never seen footage from a trained, professional steadiop that had to be run through stabilisation because it wasn't smooth enough.

Professionals get paid because they've trained and spent copious amounts of time learning and perfecting their craft.
They don't get paid because they have expensive gear, at least from the mid-end of narrative production upwards.

I can guarantee that the "perfect" footage has been run through motion stablisers in post. Of course the smoother the original footage the better, and a Glidecam sure can assist with that, but what you're seein' ain't straight from the camera to YT.

Can we get some footage ?

What lens do you run on it ?

Sorry to go off topic..

As Jax said some footage I've seen there is no way that it was digitally stabilized, and I guess that's the point of having a Steadicam specific operator, because they really do know their stuff.

I haven't got any footage since my improvements recently (I changed the way I trimmed the weights and the way that I held it). This is footage I took about two months ago, but I wasn't particularly happy with. There is one shot about 16seconds in that I added some stablization to, but the rest is completely my hand. Currently I have a 18-55mm kit lens on it. In this video I think it was a 18-135mm, I was borrowing it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXwR-n3Jwo4

 

[knightly]

I've seen an online conversation with a steadicam op (he shot the printer scene in "Office Space" - and the hallways in "The West Wing") that start with the question, how do I start getting better at steadicam. The first answer he gave was: I start with 2 hours of weight training every day.

It's a dancerly, athletic endeavor tat if you don't practice, you'll never get good at... and it's not just flying the camera. It's learning to breathe and walk. It's strengthening so you don't spend as much muscular effort to hold the camera up throughout a shot. It's cardio so you don't start breathing too fast for the rig to compensate for.

It's more than just using the rig -- so much more. In karate, we had to learn to walk with our waist moving on a plane parallel to the ground. All those hours of training made it so much easier to check that bit off my learning list for that piece of gear... I spent hours at home walking with a coffee cup filled to the brim with water to get it not to spill as I was carrying it, so I could figure out how to move without risking my camera while doing it.

This one (like most other on set skills) is one that you take the time to learn off set before you get there so you don't waste your cast/crew's time learning it on set.