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IndieTalk: The Movie (Story Development)
- Thread starter aoristic
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Time for me to defend.
It was NEVER my intension to make my idea. I actually NEVER had a idea for the story side of things. But i did want this to be a project filmed around the world, with a few different crews. Now the ideas we looked over didnt really provide this. But as you have said clive, every idea can be improved to become a good idea... or even changed a little to make this particular project happen, so writers, dont be discouraged. I know you dont think the idea of writing a story to make a multi crew thing isnt the best option, and just to write an idea with any structure of film is better, this probably is right, but that isnt where i want this to go. A movie filmed by one crew in one area has been done before, and i wasnt looking for that in this project, my idea is to do this multi crew thing, which is quite fresh, and doesn't seem like it has been done, or not that has been big enough to get my attention, so thats the reason for my 'stalled' development. And my idea i'm working on now, is NOT the idea i put forward before. Before was just a something that jumped into my head, so i put it forward hopeing someone could add to it, because it was a multi crew idea.
From the info above i said, i believe the writers do have a point to submit. If they can adjust their stories to acompany the multi crew part, they would have a good chance of getting their script used. So please people, don't be discouraged, work on them, and let me know any progress
I dont see how you could say this Lilith. I did say in a post that i liked it and encouraged you to continue. The input i put in on your idea, and i too did give a little, was that i did like it, but i was trying to suggest things to you to make it a multi crew thing, worldwide, cause thats where i want this project to go. And for you to say i'm not taking others input into consideration, thats just wrong. I've read, chatted & pm'ed back & fouth with all people about what they think of this project, and my recent decision was made because i see it as the best way for this project to move forward towards the finish line. If you noticed in the week i stayed away from posting, and just reviewed everything, these topics hardly got any posts, i wanted to see what would happen. So im just doing what i think is needed to make this happen, and im sorry if i have made you feel like i didnt listen to you. I do wish you luck on your script, where ever you go with it
This has not been a lost opportunity. Just because the writing phase of production has changed in development ideas, and whilst it could of been very helpfull to all involved, it also has/had the potential to be a huge time waster, in it never being completed, but it does not mean this project is dead. Its just changed a little. Poke, thanks for the faith.
All in all, this project is DEFINITLY still on the tracks. I'm very sorry if we have lost some people because where we are going with this, but i feel it needs to be done. I recently had an interview with the Guardian newspaper in England (on the phone from down under), and after talking on the subject for the interview, he made sure i was very aware that he wanted to be kept in the loop as far as where the production of this project was at. This train is still moving, so please dont jump off because of a few small setbacks.
Cheers, Kane.
It was NEVER my intension to make my idea. I actually NEVER had a idea for the story side of things. But i did want this to be a project filmed around the world, with a few different crews. Now the ideas we looked over didnt really provide this. But as you have said clive, every idea can be improved to become a good idea... or even changed a little to make this particular project happen, so writers, dont be discouraged. I know you dont think the idea of writing a story to make a multi crew thing isnt the best option, and just to write an idea with any structure of film is better, this probably is right, but that isnt where i want this to go. A movie filmed by one crew in one area has been done before, and i wasnt looking for that in this project, my idea is to do this multi crew thing, which is quite fresh, and doesn't seem like it has been done, or not that has been big enough to get my attention, so thats the reason for my 'stalled' development. And my idea i'm working on now, is NOT the idea i put forward before. Before was just a something that jumped into my head, so i put it forward hopeing someone could add to it, because it was a multi crew idea.
From the info above i said, i believe the writers do have a point to submit. If they can adjust their stories to acompany the multi crew part, they would have a good chance of getting their script used. So please people, don't be discouraged, work on them, and let me know any progress
I dont see how you could say this Lilith. I did say in a post that i liked it and encouraged you to continue. The input i put in on your idea, and i too did give a little, was that i did like it, but i was trying to suggest things to you to make it a multi crew thing, worldwide, cause thats where i want this project to go. And for you to say i'm not taking others input into consideration, thats just wrong. I've read, chatted & pm'ed back & fouth with all people about what they think of this project, and my recent decision was made because i see it as the best way for this project to move forward towards the finish line. If you noticed in the week i stayed away from posting, and just reviewed everything, these topics hardly got any posts, i wanted to see what would happen. So im just doing what i think is needed to make this happen, and im sorry if i have made you feel like i didnt listen to you. I do wish you luck on your script, where ever you go with it
This has not been a lost opportunity. Just because the writing phase of production has changed in development ideas, and whilst it could of been very helpfull to all involved, it also has/had the potential to be a huge time waster, in it never being completed, but it does not mean this project is dead. Its just changed a little. Poke, thanks for the faith.
All in all, this project is DEFINITLY still on the tracks. I'm very sorry if we have lost some people because where we are going with this, but i feel it needs to be done. I recently had an interview with the Guardian newspaper in England (on the phone from down under), and after talking on the subject for the interview, he made sure i was very aware that he wanted to be kept in the loop as far as where the production of this project was at. This train is still moving, so please dont jump off because of a few small setbacks.
Cheers, Kane.
This is the reason I believe it's a waste of time ptiching.
You're planning an international multi-crew shoot.
You know what crews you've got and therefore the available locations and resources.
This means that YOU'RE busy fitting YOUR idea to the available resources.
If you were serious about wanting to use other people's scripts you would have briefed people properly.
Any writer working blind is bound to write something unusable for your production, and as you've rejected all these ideas as unworkable even though half of them were pitched as multi-crew, no one really has a clue what you're really looking for.
You're not giving people a fighting chance -- hell, you haven't even told them what kind of genre you favor.
And, truth is I've never meet a producer in my life who didn't favor his own ideas over those pitched. God, I can't tell you how many times I've heard writers tell the "This producer said he liked my writing, but wasn't sure about the idea -- next thing he's ptiching me his idea about a talking dog who lives with a mentally handicapped boy who is the only one who can hear him, with hilarious consequences --- he wanted me to 'work it up' for him"
The fact that you've quitely been developing an idea behind the scenes and not in thread, tells us that you're not committted to working collaboratively.
The fact you haven't properly briefed people shows how seriously you're persuing other people's ideas.
The fact that you've wasted everyone's time in this thread alone should give people pause to think about how any further contributions will be dealt with.
You're planning an international multi-crew shoot.
You know what crews you've got and therefore the available locations and resources.
This means that YOU'RE busy fitting YOUR idea to the available resources.
If you were serious about wanting to use other people's scripts you would have briefed people properly.
Any writer working blind is bound to write something unusable for your production, and as you've rejected all these ideas as unworkable even though half of them were pitched as multi-crew, no one really has a clue what you're really looking for.
You're not giving people a fighting chance -- hell, you haven't even told them what kind of genre you favor.
And, truth is I've never meet a producer in my life who didn't favor his own ideas over those pitched. God, I can't tell you how many times I've heard writers tell the "This producer said he liked my writing, but wasn't sure about the idea -- next thing he's ptiching me his idea about a talking dog who lives with a mentally handicapped boy who is the only one who can hear him, with hilarious consequences --- he wanted me to 'work it up' for him"
The fact that you've quitely been developing an idea behind the scenes and not in thread, tells us that you're not committted to working collaboratively.
The fact you haven't properly briefed people shows how seriously you're persuing other people's ideas.
The fact that you've wasted everyone's time in this thread alone should give people pause to think about how any further contributions will be dealt with.
I haven't wasted peoples time. As you said before, it hasn't been a waste of time even if the person isnt going to participate (ie: Lilith). And i dont know which crews are in on this. Alot of people have said they are willing to film, but only one is a definite. I myself dont know who/where exactly its going to happen, so i can't tell people something i dont have a definite answer, im not planning my idea on any more info than the thread does. And i'm not lying about not doing an idea myself up until a week or so ago, and i woundn't decide on a script myself, the people filming would also have a definite say in it. People are not writing blind, the only thing i want is a worldwide thing. I dont think genre is a thing i need to decide either. Each writer has their own prefered way, and to exclude genres might exclude some writers to write. Im not holding things back, no details, i have always said the type of film i want to make. And the reason i didnt want to pitch my new idea is exactly what you said to my other 1sec idea. I didnt want to present something that wasnt ready and didnt look like it would ever work, or like you said, by far the worst effort. I wanted to get it to a stage where people can get excited about it, and want to work on it.
I said it before, and it bears repeating. I have not given up or walked away from this project at all. I would love to be a part of it, regardless of genre, etc.
Because Kane posted that he's talking with 'other members' about the process and I was not one of them, the meaning seemed pretty clear. If I was wrong, great. Either way, once I am done moving (this weekend!), I will be going for broke writing the screenplay we discussed here.
Should the group decide to shoot it, or have me whittle it down as part of an anthology, that'd be grand. If not, no problem either. As I said, I was happy that the process yielded fruit for me.
Because Kane posted that he's talking with 'other members' about the process and I was not one of them, the meaning seemed pretty clear. If I was wrong, great. Either way, once I am done moving (this weekend!), I will be going for broke writing the screenplay we discussed here.
Should the group decide to shoot it, or have me whittle it down as part of an anthology, that'd be grand. If not, no problem either. As I said, I was happy that the process yielded fruit for me.
I’m still willing to help out. I will read scripts for review/comments rather than write one. If it works out that a scene or two needs to be shot on my side of town, I’ll work on it in whatever capacity to make it happen. And I’ll pitch in with marketing/pr/advertising help when/if the time comes - because that’s my expertise at this time. And with that in mind, I feel compelled to put in my two cents. I would advise you to approach this as an opportunity to capitalize on the uniqueness of this idea, rather than being married to ‘making a feature.’ Meaning - make a short film with a killer script that does not require high production values and with a structure that lends itself to filming separate scenes with separate crews from around the world. The time and effort it would take to create a killer short script in this vein is far less than what it would take to create a killer feature script. The story has to be mind-blowing. Because the production values and capabilities of the crews are unknowns at this time, as far as I know. But if the script is flawless and easy to produce (or close to it) then you have far more likelihood of ending up with something good that will get positive attention - for everyone involved. It will garner attention at festivals (because you will have a better chance at ending up with a GREAT short with a GREAT story that WILL get some play, far greater chance than with a feature, IMO), AND it will lend itself to spin via the press - due to its worldwide nature AND because it’s really good. The pr value all of us will gain from creating a really really good film shot by crews around the world is invaluable. THAT’s what is unique about this idea. There. I’m done. I’d be happy if you saw the logic to my realistic perspective. But if not, I’ll still be happy - cause that’s the way I am. 
Could it be that a movie made by committee won't work?
Some want one genre, while others believe a different genre is better - some want a single narrative, while others want an anthology - some want a short while others feel a feature is better. How do we all come together to get a single movie made without feeling disapointed or that our idea or realistic perspective isn't being followed?
Some want one genre, while others believe a different genre is better - some want a single narrative, while others want an anthology - some want a short while others feel a feature is better. How do we all come together to get a single movie made without feeling disapointed or that our idea or realistic perspective isn't being followed?
I must admit that I feel the same. I had hoped that an idea would emerge from this process that people would get behind. My experience of pulling together productions tells me that if people love the story you're trying to tell, they're more prepared to get involved.
I think where this process has failed is possibly that a strong enough idea didn't emerge from the brainstorming process to form that consensus.
I've never believed that anything much can be created by a committee -- which is the reason that early on it was established that CVF would act as producer. Giving both overall control and at the same time responsibilty for the process.
What I do know, is it is possible is for large groups of people to collborate in a creative process, if the process is handled properly. I ran writing teams for eleven years and my experience is that they can be a joy, if guided. But at the same time they tend to flounder around if they haven't any direction.
I think that could have been avoided if a clearer objective had been set from the outset and the ideas managed.
If I had been producing this I would have started by asking people interested in shooting the end product to go out and find three interesting locations in their area -- takes some jpegs and then post them here. I would then have asked people to suggest ideas for a short film project that could be shot in those locations, bearing in mind the fact that cast couldn't travel.
I would have then have decided on the idea that I though had most merit and said "This is what I want to develop and this is why... let's talk about character development."
The trick when using a large group to create ideas to give them specific tasks to accomplish and then to manage the ideas -- using deadlines to keep the process flowing.
Even without the initial focus I think this project could have run better if a some point CVF had said -- OK I've looked at the ideas -- I'm interested in X and Y -- let's focus on those.
directorik said:
I think that's why the idea of one thing (major prop, or theme) putting all the things together was the best idea...many of us can and have put together shorts already. If we had that, we would be able to to use genres based upon crews, locations based upon scripts, individual scripts written by one rather than committee. I think that a movie can be made by committee if the individuals still maintain a certain amount of power in the process.
But those who are out or at least not in the other project, can always do that project. The only thing keeping us from doing it is someone to step up and co-ordinate the project.
Chris
If you were to go with the multiple crews, multiple stories, multiple locations version of this...perhaps story submissions could be made on a basic outline/theme by each of the contributing groups...these could be judged for their fit with the other pieces and arranged in a way that fits the overall outline...or assignments could be handed to each group and the scripts submitted to be messaged into a cohesive piece, handed back to be shot...test shots approved with lighting and framings by the producer (kane) and the rest will make history!
Test shots would allow for a dialing in of a semi cohesive look and feel to the piece, even across the genres...location shots sent to the producer as mentioned above to be approved, headshots of potential actors, costumes, lighting, set design, etc.
Once the theme/outline is hammered out, there could be a large skype conference to act as a preproduction meeting.
Perhaps scheduling every short to be shot the same weekend and then we can get together a BTS hour by hour thing that shows what was going on in cach camp at the same time...
Test shots would allow for a dialing in of a semi cohesive look and feel to the piece, even across the genres...location shots sent to the producer as mentioned above to be approved, headshots of potential actors, costumes, lighting, set design, etc.
Once the theme/outline is hammered out, there could be a large skype conference to act as a preproduction meeting.
Perhaps scheduling every short to be shot the same weekend and then we can get together a BTS hour by hour thing that shows what was going on in cach camp at the same time...
This is why i didnt know where to go after looking over the ideas. So i agree.
Definitly be the multi crew & multi locations part, but the story isnt decided. Maybe if someone came up with a good outline/theme, that could be a choice. Or if someone comes up with a one story for the multi crew/location to do, thats another. Interesting thought knightly!
A lot of "ifs" Clive. Since CVF is in charge is it realistic for those that want to be involved follow his lead? Is it realistic to suggest that those who don't connect to his project simply bow out and not post "if" and "what I would do" threads?
I'm just an outside observer. I have said I would love to direct a segment. Other than that, the storyline or how it comes together isn't something I have a stake in.
I'm just an outside observer. I have said I would love to direct a segment. Other than that, the storyline or how it comes together isn't something I have a stake in.
I think we have that person. Maybe we should all get behind CVF, follow his lead (even if we would do it a different way) and do what we can to get this movie made.cibao said:
Not at all Clive. You know me better than that. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. My questions aren't rhetorical. I genuinely wonder if we all got behind CVF's project, genuinely put our time, talent and experience into his project - really made it a group effort with one leader - if we could actually make it happen.
My questions are serious. Is this a realistic project? Can we, as individuals, rally behind a producer who isn't running the show exactly as we would like? I asked you Clive, because I trust and respect you and your judgment and opinion. Not to tell you to shut up.
My questions are serious. Is this a realistic project? Can we, as individuals, rally behind a producer who isn't running the show exactly as we would like? I asked you Clive, because I trust and respect you and your judgment and opinion. Not to tell you to shut up.
Sorry Rik, misinterrupted the post.
But telling me to shut up when my input is counter-productive is no bad thing and I think we'd reached that point. I've just been venting my frustrated with this project.To answer your question.
I think there is a lot of support in principle project for this project. But AS IT STANDS at the moment I don't believe this is a realistic project. And I think it highlights one of the biggest problems with the indie scene as it stands today. IMO the techniques used for story development are the primary skill set lacking in many indie film makers and in indie producers in particular.
But, having said that maybe CVF will step up to the plate and run the show if I stop peering over his shoulder going "Oh... I wouldn't do that if I was you!"
I think the whole thing could be pulled back on track with some clear leadership, but in order for that to happen CVF would have to give the group some direction. I think the problem is that he's too good mannered to just wade in and say "This is what the plan is, this is what I want."
Reading between the lines, I think the problem he's facing at the moment is that he doesn't like any of the ideas suggested. The problem for the group is that until someone says "I'm not sold on anything I've seen so far, what else have you got?" The project is going to be stalled.
Or maybe the best way to move forward would be to take the story development out of the forum and just do the production elements as a community. At the moment I see there is still significant support for the production elements but not for the story development. Which IMO is dead in the water.
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