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How much free rein should I give a screenwriting consultant?

I want to hire a screenwriting consultant and looked around. There is one who read my script who has more experience than the others, so far, but she says she cannot improve things here or there, and that the script is so flawed that the whole story and perhaps even a good amount of the premise will have to be rewritten from scratch.

If this is the best way to go, it's the best, however, if she chooses to add in more characters or more locations, it can become difficult since I wrote a script to fit my budget as best I could, and I don't know if I should allow her to rewrite the whole story. If I tell her no, I cannot make certain changes that she wants because of budget, she may find it difficult to work with me perhaps.

What do you think I should do? Is this her job, and I should continue to let her do it, or should I not give total free rein, and their should be cut offs? Or is that bad and free rein from a pro, is the only way to have a likely great script?
 
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Okay thanks. I kind had a talk with her about that, and she says she cannot help make the story better than likely. However, I want the script to be good, and that is my primary interest. So I want the contract to be about that. If giving a screenwriter full power does that, than is that the professional way to go? If not than I can make rules in the contract, but not sure where I should draw the line. If not full rein, than how much rein? At the same time, I don't want to limit her options, and then have other critics tell me it's a bad script, with the reasons being because I limited her options.
 
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Fixing the premise doesn't mean that things that cost will come and go. It is more about fine tuning and changing the order a bit. If your budget is set in stone that should not be a problem. If she has some great ideas she can also check with you first. Maybe you'll find some idea so great that you have to have it in the script, even if it will cost a million to shoot
 
If everything from the premise through to the story and the characters is flawed in the opinion of several experienced people, then should you not be looking at another premise and another story, rather than have someone rewrite what you have? Where would be the achievement in the "Written by harmonica44" credit if you know deep down the only reason it's even half decent is because of another writer? Personally, I would rather start again from scratch.

If the story and the premise are flawed, the budget is the least of your concerns.
 
Well I don't know if it's flawed for everyone, that is just one person's opinion so far. I would like to get more before I write something else entirely. However, I think that it's my best script compared to the others, so I don't know if I can come up with something better.

As far as getting credit goes, usually in movies, the person who writes the first script gets credited as "Story by", and the one who rewrites it gets "Screenplay by", is that right? So I thought I would get some secondary credit at least.
 
I want to hire a screenwriting consultant and looked around. There is one who read my script who has more experience than the others, so far, but she says she cannot improve things here or there, and that the script is so flawed that the whole story and perhaps even a good amount of the premise will have to be rewritten from scratch.

If this is the best way to go, it's the best, however, if she chooses to add in more characters or more locations, it can become difficult since I wrote a script to fit my budget as best I could, and I don't know if I should allow her to rewrite the whole story. If I tell her no, I cannot make certain changes that she wants because of budget, she may find it difficult to work with me perhaps.

What do you think I should do? Is this her job, and I should continue to let her do it, or should I not give total free rein, and their should be cut offs? Or is that bad and free rein from a pro, is the only way to have a likely great script?
I was just having this conversation. First, let's be clear. If you hire someone as a consultant to alter your script, it is first YOUR SCRIPT. You hold copyright. Secondly, if you HIRE her, she does NOT have copyright. It's a work for hire. So you NEVER lose control of your work. You are NOT obligated to use any of her suggestions. Ever. Period. It's not her story, even if she re-writes it because you're paying her to write it (work for hire).

I was recently commissioned to write a script from an idea. Ideas cannot be copyrighted. The realization (art, writing, recording, etc.) can be copyrighted. However, writing it does not make me the copyright owner. The contract is a negotiation between me and the other party as to credit and compensation. I do freelance work as a ghostwriter/script doctor. I charge more when I don't get credit. However, the final product would still belong to the person who hires me. I can't later turn around and sell it. THEY own the copyright.

Thirdly, IT'S YOUR FILM. If you're hiring her to write your story, tell her the parameters. This film will shoot for $10K so no more than six locations and 10 main characters. Personally, I always ask the producer what resources they have and/or budget they have in mind so I can write within it. I also try to stage scenes that can be scaled up or down as needed. The spec script writer is not under the obligation to write to the lowest budget. Filmmakers should ALWAYS write to their budget. A script consultant should always work hand-in-hand with the producer to make the script match their budget.

Every freelance writer works differently, so you need to understand what you are paying for. As part of my fee, I provide two re-writes after providing the first draft. This allows the producer/director to ask for specific changes. More than twice can become abusive of my time. WGA specifies after the polish and final draft, companies pay for additional re-writes. So it behooves you to be direct about what you want and how many re-writes you receive. You need to be clear what you want and expect and what you will provide in terms of credit and compensation.

If she's professional, I'm sure she will likely cut locations and merge characters. My experience is that there is a tendency for new writers to put in too much. Sometimes, the writer is just too close to their script that they don't want to 'kill of their children'. It's easier for an outsider to see. Think of it this way, Harmonica, if you're hiring me to make the script work for your budget, it makes no sense for me to go all Hollywood. The story premise may be flawed. You are hiring a script consultant to help you make it better and within budget. But if you are too rigid about your script, then your money would be better spent on the production itself. I always write my treatment first before starting into the script because I can share it with the producer/director and get immediate feedback. I can make changes before I commit time to writing the script. As I said, it will always be your script. If you get back the story and don't like it, ask for changes or change it yourself. Good luck.
 
Okay thanks. I asked before on here about writing the treatment first and just showing a consultant that, but I was told that it would make a lot more sense if the consultant saw a finished script, and it would make a lot more sense to read, compared to a treatment.

There might be some characters I can kill off. There are two detectives investigating the crimes. However, does a detective need a partner? I gave him a partner since so many movies do that, but would movies like Seven or Lethal Weapon be just as good, if it was only one cop investigating instead of two? Perhaps the partner is not necessary. That's just one example as I am trying to think of what I need vs. don't need.
 
When hired as a consultant and re-working script, the consultant normally provides a treatment or story summary to the producer/director (you) for approval and changes. It saves me time to write 2-5 pages, than to waste time writing 95-110 pages and find out you don't like the idea.

Those are the kind of questions that need to be asked. Columbo didn't have a partner. Rockford didn't have a partner. Never have more characters than you really need. But it depends on your story. That's where having an outside eye look at a script can help.

As to credit, if your contract doesn't specify she receives credit, then you will be the only credited writer. If you agree to give credit, you would be listed first and she would be listed second. That happens quite often in Hollywood where directors will hire their friends to help polish the screenplay. It's your script which you're producing so you should always have first credit. There are exceptions, but this is not one of those cases.
 
Well I don't know if it's flawed for everyone, that is just one person's opinion so far. I would like to get more before I write something else entirely. However, I think that it's my best script compared to the others, so I don't know if I can come up with something better.

As far as getting credit goes, usually in movies, the person who writes the first script gets credited as "Story by", and the one who rewrites it gets "Screenplay by", is that right? So I thought I would get some secondary credit at least.

To be clear (and as FSF has made clearer above) I wasn't suggesting that you would or should lose credit - that is yours regardless. My point was a more philosophical one: if your script is rewritten to the extent that the story and fundamental premise are changed, to what extent can you truly believe in your role as writer in any future accomplishment of that script? It happens a lot, of course, where screenwriters sell a script and receive credit even though it is morphed out of all recognition from their original idea - but would you want to willingly do that? If all you care about is getting it sold, then I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. But personally, I would like to think that MY premise and MY story are going under my name*





*until someone offers me money for it. Then I'd probably just take the cash and run :)
 
Well my goal is to direct the script myself so I was much more concerned about the director's credit, than I am the writer's one, but I would like it to be mine too of course. I think after she told me some things though, perhaps it could use a little more work before drawing up the contract and hiring her.

However, should I just rework the treatment and the script then, and save the script for when I hire the consultant? Also, her telling me the premise does not work, was just one opinion. I have talked to other filmmaking collaborators. Some said the script is much better than that. Others say it's okay. I have gotten different sorts of opinions so I am not sure if everyone would agree that it is not save-able, but I should get more now.
 
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Whether you shoot it or not letting a PROFESSIONAL, someone with experience and the CV to back it up, go through your material is worth more than the project if you are not a professional. You will learn A LOT!

That's happened to me many times as a musician, as a recording engineer, (music) producer and as an audio post editor/sound designer. An integral part of being a professional is knowing that there is ALWAYS something new to learn; feedback from your peers and those a step or ten above you is to be valued like diamonds.
 
want to hire a screenwriting consultant:clap:

If that person is meant to be so perfect in making someone's script into best...
then how many script of that person might have been made into movie ???

any way,

that job designation is necessity , hope you find good one.
by the way , you got great way of imagination to story making.
not read any of your script yet.

you are enough good in story building I can say.
this comes from another story/script writer
buy that.
 
There is one who read my script who has more experience than the others

Experience with produced movies? Keep in mind that the biggest script doctor market are script competitions. They might be very good at getting crappy scripts read well, but won't have a clue about turning it into a surprise blockbuster.
 
Script reading is difficult task than that of script writing.

If you think format instruction just do help in presenting screen act, then you are wrong.

You need matured people to read your script.
Better director reads the script and accepts it, rather than depending on luck of maturity of a person capable of understanding the script.

My new script got character , who smoke(fag)

I won't be writing it each and every time.
but, If possible I want to see director make that character have cigar in hand in each and every appearance.
this kind of understanding is necessary.
I f you believe in a script writer who talks about perfection in scenes written , then that fellow is non-sense.

I just expect a guy who really understands my script to come and say he got it.
I'm not even bothered about what those people being just good in syntax and english have to say.


Their creativity is nowhere even bit match to that of mine.

they got english and syntax perfect.
but, loose core content.

mine got core content , hesitant in english

If there exist a director who understands my script content , then I'm over whelmed.

So, I expect director with maturity to read my script unlike those kids who claim to be directors of 10 movies with loose content story.

All my script core content is matured and sophisticated.
Still , I emerge as good as possible to make sure any matured guy get's my script understood in right manner.

Unfortunately, most of the directors here are of low calibre , campared to the calibre of script writers.
these fellows are no where match for the maturity of us.

they come he for entertain purpose.
claim to be seniors.\
\
they are such a joke.

the reason they give is , not good script.
reason is they can't make movie.
they can't understand the characters in the script.
tehy want is , hero as hero
and lady along with him to be heroin
my ass.


Never trust any script readers , they are not perfect at all.

they never read complete script.
even if they, they miss point of view.
only matured one's can make it perfectly.

looking for scripts !!!!
I HATE THOSE LINES

I have kept loose loop hole in my new script, knowingly.
I want matured guy to emerge and understand that easy mistake and carry on reading.

For newbies, the leave it if they see any mistakes of english and syntax.
they are newbies, even after being 10 years in industry with 10 m ovies to credit
 
I want to hire a screenwriting consultant

Here we go again. Is this going to be another multi-page long thread where you make excuses? Is this going to be a thread where you figure out how to blame her for your own foolish idiotic behavior? I certainly hope not. Even so, I do believe that you'll learn from the experience. I found out that the only way that you learn the error of your ways is when your wallet is hurt.

Good luck.

PS. Don't ask her to decrease the contrast, thinking to yourself you're speaking her lingo. That's a job for someone else.
 
Okay thanks people. I am also going to make the contract so we have to work together in person. The last two people I hired said they would, but they always made drafts and finished them without working with me, and lots of time was wasted cause of it. I will make it so that either we work together or the contract will be terminated within a certain date after, if that's a better plan.

I also merged characters and locations in my previous drafts, but am always up for more if a consultant can make it work. Is it worth merging characters if it leads to coincidences in the story?

Do you think I should hire this particular consultant or should I keep looking? My instincts say to keep looking since she seems to want to change the whole in order to make it work, where as others may be able to pin point more specifics as to what can be improved. If I explore looking for others, what should I look for? I mean it's not like a lot of these people have helped write movies that made it very far either, so what should I be looking for or go on?
 
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Why not put it up here for us to read? You'll get plenty of feedback from people not looking to make money out of you, and it might give you a better idea of where you are. Again, if an experienced reader suggests your premise and story are fundamentally flawed, it's quite a severe thing to say.
 
Do you think I should hire this particular consultant

No.

should I keep looking?

No.

what should I be looking for or go on?

(Assuming this is the same story you've been blabbering about for the last couple of months)
You need an Epiphany. You need to shelve this idea for now. Put it in a draw. Don't look at it or think about it for at least a couple of months. Go work on something else. Do some writing training. Get a wider knowledge base to draw from. Your story is flawed and you cannot see it. You need a fresh perspective on your own work or to discover another idea that is much, much better.
 
I will echo the advice I gave when you asked about getting a proofreader which has come to pass.
... Let's imagine worst case. You hire a script reviewer for a couple hundred dollars to give you expert feedback on your script. S/He tells you that your character development is poor, the story line is muddy, the premise and action is unbelievable to this point and the pacing is off. In addition, there are numerous spelling, grammar and formatting issues. What is your response going to be? ...

How the process works varies by reviewer. As a reader, the first 10-15 pages tell me tons about the script. If a writer can't sell me the story, characters and use good formatting in that interval, the rest of the script often doesn't get any better and it's a pass. If a writer sells me there, I'll read the whole draft. From that point, I can often give more specific notes. As a reviewer, I'm paid to be bored out of my skull. I try to be gentle, but let's face it bad is bad. Writing is part art and part craft. The craft side can be tweaked. The art side is more or less innate. I believe it can be developed over time, but most new writers want to be superb instantly, hence the success of Blake Snyder's beat sheets (the screenwriting equivalent of Bob Ross' art techniques).

After reading a couple hundred scripts, it's easy to distinguish technique from talent. New writers complain "... but look at X written by Y. It does the same thing." Fine. You aren't Y and you didn't write X. Chances are, X isn't what Y wrote but a doctored version. Nonetheless, my point is that as a writer receiving feedback, you can either respond defensively or stepping back, think about it and apply it. Nobody says a writer can't have several variations of the original idea. Each time a writer comes at it, s/he is learning more about the story, the characters and the craft.
Just maybe you should accept that parts of your script don't work. It doesn't mean YOUR script is unsaveable or unuseable. But it may be helpful and instructive to see how the hired writers would approach your same issues and resolve them. It may give you insight how you can better work with your script. When I've had my scripts reviewed and revised by experienced writers, I've learned a lot. As director you will continue to have large control over what the final script will be. I can only urge you to not allow yourself to be too tied to it. As a producer, you will find that even in production, budget and other situations will arise that can require "plan B" tactics. Having these alternatives can be an asset.

Do you think I should hire this particular consultant or should I keep looking? My instincts say to keep looking since she seems to want to change the whole in order to make it work, where as others may be able to pin point more specifics as to what can be improved.
In the end, it's not about her (or other consultants)--it's about you. I'm not clear on the distinction between "making it work" and "improved". Isn't the purpose of "improving it" to "make it work"? At some point, you may need to tell your gut to stop looking at the trees and step back to look at the forest.

I know writers who write themselves into a boxed cell and keep digging down. Often it arises because they have that one clever element they want to play out but at the sacrifice of the plot and arc. I remind them that the box is fictional and arbitrary. Sometimes you need to go back a few steps and make a different choice. They don't like to hear "cut it out" but in the end, it frees them up. And often later, a new circumstance arises that lets the situation play out albeit a different context. You seem to bang your head a lot on this script based on your thread postings. It strongly suggests to me that a new course of action is needed. Maybe a new approach to your story may inspire you.

No one here has read your script. Until recently, you mentioned you didn't have a completed draft. None of us can comment whether she is right or wrong, or even make wild guesses about the quality of your script. Maybe it needs to be totally overhauled. If you ask her to try to remain faithful, she may be able to pinpoint specifics since she's read the script and can provide alternatives.
I also merged characters and locations in my previous drafts, but am always up for more if a consultant can make it work. Is it worth merging characters if it leads to coincidences in the story?
Again, no one here has read your script. That's a pointless question. The answer is yes. The answer is no. The answer is maybe. The issue could be debated endlessly. Could anything be more vague than "leading to coincidences"? To answer that question, we'd have to read your script to learn the specifics for ourselves. Your sharing would be rather pointless since it must be understood in the whole context of the movie, not just a few "Well X did this but now Y is doing it, so I'm wondering ...". Not helpful. There are unstated dependencies. We need to know everything about X and Y in the story, not just that short statement. You know and have lived the full story, we haven't.

As Maz and many others have suggested, post your script. While I can understand if you're reluctant, if you choose not to post, then you will need to work with her or another consultant who has read the whole script to answer that question and others. Given your prior posts, I think it would be a good thing to work one-on-one with someone to help resolve all the head-bangers. From your posts it does sound like a rather Rube Goldberg plot--planting DNA, with cops and crooks playing both sides, people blackmailed to not do their jobs, gang standoffs through false leaks, etc. You seem to have a penchant for building boxes.

You wrestle with details where the first question should be "What's your underlying story?". If I understand it, "a good man runs afoul of crime lord who destroys his life, transforming him into a criminal". Pick one or two of those plot elements that you want to keep and give the consultant some flexibility to weave those into the script to tell your underlying story. It's possible to mix old and new.

Having a local co-writer may be an alternative. Maybe one of the filmmaking collaborators who was positive about the script can work with you. Everyone here has their own projects and finds time to help each other with scripts. If some of your filmmaking collaborators will be helping you shoot, ask if they would be willing to provide some time as well. They probably have a better idea of what resources you'll have as well. Good Luck.
 
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