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How did I make this camera monitor error?

H

harmonica44

A director I know, had a cameraman drop out of his project and asked me to fill in, just two days, before the shoot. I used the monitor plugged into the camera to show me everything, and to frame the shots. But now he shows me the footage and the characters, are framed differently. One character, has one third of him cut off, in all the takes from that angle. But on the monitor, there was more shown and it was all there. Do some monitors show more space in the room than what the camera actually captures?

And sorry I realized I should have posted this in the, on the set forum now.
 
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I don't know, maybe. It wasn't my camera so I don't know what the aspect ratio was. All I know is that somehow one third of the shot is gone, and I feel terrible, cause at least 30% of the scene is ruined as far as I know.
 
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It's hard to know without knowing what camera you were using, what monitor, how it was plugged into the monitor, and the monitor output settings.

On an Alexa, for example, you do have a 'surround view' that is enabled by default which shows you extra image around the frameline that isn't being recorded. It mimics somewhat a film camera, and allows you to have an extra second to predict movement into the frame. You could, technically turn the framelines of for the mointor output, in which case - yes, you would be seeing a little more than what is being recorded.

Also, DV cameras tend to show you an 'overscanned' image, so you're actually seeing about 10% more than what you're recording on each edge. The annoying thing about DV cameras is they don't actually tell you, or show you what is actuallybeing recorded, so you just have to guess from experience of using the camera before.

I haven't really noticed this phenomenon on newer card-based cameras.

ALso, how is he showing you the footage? As 'raw' files from the camera? Or post-processed files? If the latter, you may find there's something happening in the post processing.
 
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Yeah, I mean DV camera as in DV tapes.

They show you an 'overscanned' image, so you're actually seeing 10% or so more than what is really being recorded.

If you don't know this and plan your framing with it in mind, you can quite easily have ample headroom turn into the almost chopping off of someone's head.
 
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Okay thanks. It's chopped off at the sides at least. Not sure about top and bottom, from memory. I wish I had been told this, as I could not have ruined it. Oh well, at least I know what the problem likely was. Now I have a huge phobia of wanting to help on someone else's set.
 
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Usually the crop-in isn't that huge, only like 10% on each side but it can vary camera to camera.

You usually shouldn't have too much issue unless you've framed subjects in the extremes of the frame.

This is why you should always shoot a test with the same equipment before you get on set :)
 
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Yeah it was an extreme framing. I was asked to help and when I got there, I didn't know what they wanted me to do. They wanted a master shot, since the other camerman were behind two other cameras. So I watched the master shot, and moved the camera if the characters began to move out of frame. But apparently I cut someone off, without even knowing it, for every other remaining take. Even though the person was in frame the whole time, they are cut off in the footage I was shown afterwords. Didn't have time for me to test, since they wanted to shoot as soon as I got there. And I never used that camera or monitor before. I didn't want to to screw it up, but also wanted to help out and learn. Oh well lesson learned. From now on if I don't know the camera, I will not use the monitor and just use the camera's viewscreen or whatever's best.

But I don't want go on any more sets though, out of fear of screwing up other's projects. It will also give me a bad rep. I just thought they wanted me to help with something else for more of a beginner or something.
 
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Always test before you are committed to the shot. If the Producer/Director/Actors/Grips/etc. object to the delay, just ask them how much time it would waste having to reshoot because you made an easily avoidable mistake because you weren't familiar with the equipment.
 
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Yeah, when I arrived they were ready to go. Next time I will test. I would have had to replay the tests, through a different monitor though, to be able to test the difference, so I would need to bring a laptop or something to play the test through for next time. That way I will be looking at the actual footage, and not looking at it through THEIR monitor.
 
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That's it exactly. Shoot some test footage with the exact gear you are going to use, upload it into the NLE that will be used then watch the output on the type of device you plan the viewer will use. If needed, you can use fine line tape to mark out the crop area on the monitor. You would want to use a bright colored ultra thin tape. It's the mistakes that you make which teach you the most. Keep at it.
 
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That's why sufficient prep time is essential on any production - high or low budget.

It's much easier these days with digital - no more steady tests necessary, and you can see right on the monitor lens resolving and sharpness. Plus you can shoot some tests and load it straight through the post process you plan to use. Bcak in the day of film, you'd shoot test rolls, and then have to process and telecine them to make sure everything's all good. Plus, you had to collimate everything, check your back flange and your ground glass etc. etc.

But yeah, prep days are necessary, and productions hate paying for them - but if I were the Producer, I'd personally rather pay for a prep day, than pay for a complete reshoot because something like this happened.
 
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Yeah when came to help out on set, I did not know they wanted me to operate a camera, right when I got there, cause they were running late.

So out of curiosity, why do they make monitors so they can see more than what the camera can see? I thought they point of the monitor was to see, exactly what comes through then lens.
 
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It's not the monitor per se, it's more the entire camera system - the monitor would have been mirroring exactly what you would've seen on the viewfinder or LCD flip-out monitor.

It's more a phenomenon of the DV camera system (at least a lower, prosumer end) where everything gets overscanned by about 10%. I can tell you, I most certainly got caught out by it in my early days of using DV cameras - though at the time I was shooting mostly corporates so framing was never too big an issue.

Some camera systems have a 'surround view' as I said, but most camera systems that do offer that kind of surround view also offer framing lines, though you could technically turn those off. I think this is more so you can predict movement in and out of frame easier - ie, if someone's about to walk in to frame you're ready for them, rather than being caught off guard. You can quite often turn these modes off though. On a DV camera, however, you can't turn it 'off' because it's simply a phenomenon of the recording of the image onto a tape.
 
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It's on a dv tape correct? Maybe when he captured it in the editor, like people above said, he ended up capturing in a 4:3 rather than 16:9 somehow. Or maybe you accidentally shot the whole thing in 4:3 and for some reason the monitor was showing 16:9? Maybe tell him to double check his capture settings though.

Also are things cut off on the top and bottom, or only on the sides?
 
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