How big will you make it?

sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
Who is doing this as a hobby?
Who has an endgame to work in the industry and make a comfortable living?
Who here is aiming to become a household name?

I would love to make such great films that people will still be enjoying them after I die.
I work toward this goal every day.
 
My endgame would be black tie and red carpet. Would settle on being able to do projects full time. Reality..... At this point an expensive hobby.
 
I have my first production shoot for this friday for a pilot for a youtube kids web series,

im not prepared, whatever ill just wing it like michael bay wung his samsung conference
 
As much as goals like mine tend to be scoffed at - I certainly have an endgame plan to enter either the film or music industry hence my decision to go to school in Chicago for both of them. Ideally, I want to use my school to find a foot hole into either industry - many of which the school offers throughout the four years.

Time will tell!
 
Definitely a hobby for me. For a while, I wanted to go to film school but decided thats not what I really want to spend my life pursuing/doing.

Bottom line: Just for fun.
 
I don't want to become a filmmaker who is making large Hollywood productions. I'd be quite comfortable earning a living making content for online viewing. As long as I'm happy with my work, and enjoying myself, and getting paid to do so, then that's something that would make me content.
 
Who has an endgame to work in the industry and make a comfortable living?

Most who would like to get into the industry as a filmmaker don't have an endgame as such, just a dream. Those who do have an endgame often don't have an opening game or mid-game or at least vaguely realistic ones which don't require a miracle! The vast majority appear to have a vague (or even specific) plan designed to improve their amateur filmmaking abilities rather than a plan to become a professional/commercial filmmaker.

G
 
Thats a really interesting post APE and a situation that I am currently trying my best to stay away from. Having just finished University with a first class degree, In any other industry I would now be in a relatively solid position to get myself a job even if its on the bottom rung of that industries ladder, however in this industry it effectively means nothing and has left me in a state of limbo.

My end game is to find the best balance between allowing myself a creative outlet and making enough money to pay the bills and eventually support a family. At the moment the most likely balance seems to be working as a director/cinematographer for a commercial production company with wages seemingly in the £25-30k region and a limited creative outlet based on whatever client the company is currently working for demands.

Of course I could do a full time job in another industry and have film making as a hobby along side it,however being a mature student means I have life experience of doing a job that I don't enjoy and can compare it to having spent the last 3 years at University studying something that I am passionate about, and whilst I understand working in the industry will not be an exact or even close replica of my University studies, I am sure as hell that I would rather be doing any creative job than being back working in a call centre or gutting fish at 3 in the morning for a living.
 
I don't have an endgame but I have a next step. At each step, I ask myself the question, 'am I good enough?'

If each step is a success, then the answer is 'yes,' and I continue. If, at any point, I reach a plateau where I cannot reach the next, then I'm not good enough and will withdraw gracefully.

As a note, my last step was to get into an international film festival packed with professional directors who had shorts which were leagues above my little offering. I hopefully learned from all the mistakes I made and now want to take the next step.
 
Having just finished University with a first class degree, In any other industry I would now be in a relatively solid position to get myself a job even if its on the bottom rung of that industries ladder, however in this industry it effectively means nothing and has left me in a state of limbo.

To get a degree in say mathematics, you have to be a fairly decent mathematician. To get a degree in filmmaking you don't have to be able to make good films, you just have to have a decent knowledge about filmmaking. The same is broadly true of all science vs art degrees, having any sort of art degree is no indicator of whether or not that person is a particularly talented practitioner of that art. The artistic industries are not interested in how much you know about that art, only in the amount of talent one has as a practitioner and how/if that talent will translate into commercial success.

At the moment the most likely balance seems to be working as a director/cinematographer for a commercial production company with wages seemingly in the £25-30k region and a limited creative outlet based on whatever client the company is currently working for demands.

I would say that's a quite realistic endgame and potentially, given enough time, talent and dedication, even a possible mid-game. As a mid-game it would give you considerable practical experience in achieving commercial; demands, requirements, risk management, constraints, working practises, etc., which will make you and your own projects a more viable proposition for other professionals and commercial investors. As an end or mid game though you still need to have an opening game and getting a degree is NOT an opening game, more like pre-opening, a step to get to the opening! An opening game could be something like being a PA or runner, excelling, working beyond the call of duty, creating a demand for your services, observing and learning how things are done and practising what you learn in your own filmmaking. Eventually an opportunity will arise, you just need to be in the right place at the right time/have the right contacts and the knowledge and skill to take advantage of it. This is a long and hard game, too long and hard for most! Some try to take a shortcut by trying to strike out on their own before they understand the industry, others try the long hard road but get discouraged and give up. Extremely rarely, those who take the shortcut find success and manage to scrape a living, even more rarely they might become very successful. However, the long hard road is by far the most realistically achievable route unless one is a true filmmaking genius or someone who happens to stumble upon a genius filmmaking idea.

G
 
At each step, I ask myself the question, 'am I good enough?' If each step is a success, then the answer is 'yes,' and I continue.

There is a huge loophole/danger with this approach. At each step, how do you know what is "good enough", how do you define "success" and "good enough" for what? Maybe it's good enough technically but not artistically, maybe it's good enough artistically but not technically, maybe it's good enough at both but not good enough commercially. Answering these questions accurately is almost impossible for two reasons: 1. Real objectivity is a difficult skill to apply to one's own work and 2. "Good enough" is not only a moving goal post in the industry, it's a moving goal post personally. What might seem to you to be "good enough" now, you might look back on in a couple of years (with greater insight/experience) and wonder how on earth you could ever have thought that was "good enough"!

G
 
I would say that's a quite realistic endgame and potentially, given enough time, talent and dedication, even a possible mid-game. As a mid-game it would give you considerable practical experience in achieving commercial; demands, requirements, risk management, constraints, working practises, etc., which will make you and your own projects a more viable proposition for other professionals and commercial investors. As an end or mid game though you still need to have an opening game and getting a degree is NOT an opening game, more like pre-opening, a step to get to the opening! An opening game could be something like being a PA or runner, excelling, working beyond the call of duty, creating a demand for your services, observing and learning how things are done and practising what you learn in your own filmmaking. Eventually an opportunity will arise, you just need to be in the right place at the right time/have the right contacts and the knowledge and skill to take advantage of it. This is a long and hard game, too long and hard for most! Some try to take a shortcut by trying to strike out on their own before they understand the industry, others try the long hard road but get discouraged and give up. Extremely rarely, those who take the shortcut find success and manage to scrape a living, even more rarely they might become very successful. However, the long hard road is by far the most realistically achievable route unless one is a true filmmaking genius or someone who happens to stumble upon a genius filmmaking idea.

G[/QUOTE]


Thanks again APE. I have spent the last few days calling around local production companies asking them for advice, asking what they want to see in an employer and they very much concur with your views. They say the only real value of a masters degree(my other option) is the experience of using industry standard equipment AND a good showreel. The advice in the main is that there are 2 options, the first is to put together a fantastic showreel and send it to companies in the hope of getting freelance work with them, the second is to come on board as a runner or PA(Again as you said) and work your way up from there, get contacts and keep them, get your face known and build.

I am now putting a CV together to send to all of the companies in the hope of getting runner work, at the same time I plan to put my reel together and keep working on personal projects,that way I am making steps towards both of those routes, I see this as my opening game.
 
I am now putting a CV together to send to all of the companies in the hope of getting runner work, at the same time I plan to put my reel together and keep working on personal projects,that way I am making steps towards both of those routes, I see this as my opening game.

Good start, the difficult balance at this stage is being persistent but not annoying and of course, taking rejection stoically/gracefully.

Another piece of advice relates to my response to gorillaonabike: A fantastic showreel can certainly help to open doors/create opportunities. The question is though, how can you judge if your showreel is fantastic, mediocre or even poor? Or more specifically, if it is fantastic in the eyes of a commercial employer rather than "fantastic" just in the eyes of academia or in the eyes of other amateur filmmakers?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from making a showreel and putting it out there, just advising you to research, consider and create your showreel specifically to impress your targeted potential employers (rather than what you personally consider impressive or what your fellow filmmakers or tutors would consider impressive).

G
 
Thanks again APE.I actually have a whiteboard on my wall with a list next to it.It says Commerically,Artistically,Technically. I then write down my ideas next to it and see if it fits all 3 criteria,if it doesn't fit the last 2 I work out how to make it so it does, if it doesn't fit 'commercially' I decide whether or not the last 2 justify it as a passion piece for myself.

This way hopefully my showreel won't just be a pretty trinket but a demonstration of my technical know how,artistic eye and commercial understanding.
 
I don't want to make it "BIG." I just want to make a comfortable living doing what I love to do. If I happen to take a few more steps up the ladder without disturbing my life too much or pick up an award that would be fine, but I don't really care that much.

I had a very minor brush with "big" when I played with a popular regional band; I couldn't go shopping or to a movie or out to dinner without someone coming up to me wanting to talk. It was gratifying to the ego the first couple of times, then it became a PITA.

When I was musical director for the Del Vikings the singers were often besieged for long periods of time after a show. I would change out of my tux into street clothes, break down my gear, load my car and be ready to leave - about 45 minutes of work - and they would still be talking and signing autographs. It was a job, one that I was very good at, that paid well and that I loved to do, but when I was done with the show I just wanted to get home and into bed so I could spend some time with my family the next day before traveling to the next gig.

The respect of my peers means much more to me than fame.
 
I don't want to make it "BIG." I just want to make a comfortable living doing what I love to do. If I happen to take a few more steps up the ladder without disturbing my life too much or pick up an award that would be fine, but I don't really care that much.


This.

As long as I make comedy for a living (a decent one at that) then I'll be a happy camper. If I happen to become super famous, then that's fine, but I won't let it control what I want to create or how I want to live my life. If I become like Adam Sandler's character in Funny People, I give everyone here permission to put me out of my misery
 
Most who would like to get into the industry as a filmmaker don't have an endgame as such, just a dream. Those who do have an endgame often don't have an opening game or mid-game or at least vaguely realistic ones which don't require a miracle! The vast majority appear to have a vague (or even specific) plan designed to improve their amateur filmmaking abilities rather than a plan to become a professional/commercial filmmaker.

G

I have a 5 year plan, I am 2 years into it so I'll be close to 35 when this is done. The broad strokes remaining are - make an amazing superhero action comedy short , get it accepted at a prestigious festival, meet producers, pitch them my idea for an awesome sci-fi feature. profit

I have finally laid the groundwork in the last 2 years. Groundwork being - watch tons of classic cinema ( I know I watched 500 films in 2013), read a bunch of film books, make a short good enough to attract actors and other talent/crew. Criminal Bounds was a great short and now I have actors and crew wanting to work with me for pt. 2 including some pretty hot ladies :cool: I am feeling confidant enough in my abilities that I've finally begun preproduction on the superhero action comedy. Peoples jaws will drop
 
I don't want to work a dayjob. I want to do what I love and pay the rent. I don't want to be rich and famous. If I could make a living doing music for made-for-tv movies where most audience members won't notice, let alone care about the music, that's great! I think I have a long way to go before my technical skills are there (let alone the self-promotion aspect, at which I've always been terrible) but I think each project I've done shows growth. I'm learning where my weaknesses are, and trying to improve them. And I'm making music I enjoy listening to, which is my secondary goal!
 
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