Horror Films: PG & PG-13

[harpsichoid]

There's so much crap horror because it's quite easy to make a film that fits into this genre and market it like the rest.

I watched 'The Woman in Black' with my girlfriend the other day, absolute rubbish!

But, we both had our faces half-hidden behind cushions all the way through- not because it was disturbing or scary on any psychological level, just because the music keeps going BANG and you see a lady's face behind Daniel Radcliffe's sideburns, or a door slams and a sillhouette runs across to the lavatory.

For many people, that constitutes a horror film. It scares you, makes you jump, gets your adrenaline flowing. But it's not good for anything else..

I would say that there are plenty of good horror films from the last decade! It can be a bit more difficult to find them now, as Hollywood concentrates mainly on its crap-for-money projects and takes less risks. But you would say the same about any genre, like romantic comedies.

Plus, plenty of amazing horror films outside of America. That's why they all end up getting re-made in Hollywood!

Pan's Labyrinth, Rec and Rec2- probably the three scariest films I've ever seen, all in Spanish.

Ju-on and Ringu from Japan.

Shaun of the Dead, as has already been mentioned.

And my favourite film of all time, Silent Hill!

 

[rayw]

There's so much crap horror because it's quite easy to make a film that fits into this genre and market it like the rest.

I watched 'The Woman in Black' with my girlfriend the other day, absolute rubbish!

Ah! F#ck me!
I just watched TWIB the other day! It was so forgettable that I... forgot about it!

Lame sauce on a lame duck floating down a lame stream through Lameville in the lame country of Lame-istan.

Watch 'The Others' for ten times the effect with a tenth of the effort.

 

[harpsichoid]

Ah! F#ck me!
I just watched TWIB the other day! It was so forgettable that I... forgot about it!

Lame sauce on a lame duck floating down a lame stream through Lameville in the lame country of Lame-istan.

Watch 'The Others' for ten times the effect with a tenth of the effort.

I was going to ask if you've seen the old version, but it was made for TV so you might not have heard of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wg4jKt3NIw

Far far better than the new one. Plus the woman in black is Miss Lemon from Poirot! Awesome.

 

[fernando97echeverria]

Look, this isn't ain't hard Cracker. So to speak. This last decade, none of maybe the decade's hundred best films were a horror film. But in the eighties, Carrie and The Shining would have made it because they were monumental for ALL of film. In the seventies, Alien, Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby among others would have been listed as well, because they were more than good horror films, they were just good movies in general. And then the year before, with Psycho and The Tenant and Repulsion. And so you get where I'm going here.

Horror movies nowadays are just confined to being genre movies, and if they're good, they're just horror films. But the days of them being innovative and groundbreaking for all of film are over. Which you seem to fervently deny.

And harpsichoid, if Pan's Labyrinth were really a horror (it's a fantasy thriller), I'd drop this argument. That film is a masterpiece.

 

[harpsichoid]

Look, this isn't ain't hard Cracker. So to speak. This last decade, none of maybe the decade's hundred best films were a horror film. But in the eighties, Carrie and The Shining would have made it because they were monumental for ALL of film. In the seventies, Alien, Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby among others would have been listed as well, because they were more than good horror films, they were just good movies in general. And then the year before, with Psycho and The Tenant and Repulsion. And so you get where I'm going here.

Horror movies nowadays are just confined to being genre movies, and if they're good, they're just horror films. But the days of them being innovative and groundbreaking for all of film are over. Which you seem to fervently deny.

I would say it isn't that there aren't groundbreaking horror movies any more, it's just that they aren't mainstream and fashionable like they were in the 80s.

Plus, because many big horror fans have their own kind of alternative culture, they look towards other countries for films- some of the best recent horror films come from Asia, which means they're much less likely to make their way onto these kinds of lists.

And harpsichoid, if Pan's Labyrinth were really a horror (it's a fantasy thriller), I'd drop this argument. That film is a masterpiece.

Who defines the genres? I would personally say that Pan's Labyrinth has many of the aspects of a horror film. Maybe the fact that it doesn't completely correlate with what is becoming the contemporary definition of a horror film is the reason it is left out of the equation..

Even if it isn't called a horror film as such, it is still held in high regard by many horror fans and is reviewed on most of the websites for horror films.

 

[NickClapper]

I'm confused as to what this thread has to do with PG and PG-13..?

I think that Fernando is fighting his corner admirably, even though he is clearly wrong! The requirements for horror need to be adjusted from other genres. If I go see a drama I want to feel something on an emotional level, if I see a comedy then I want to laugh and if I go see a horror movie I want to be scared. And 'being scared' is just not as easily artistically quantifiable as other reactions.

The Silence of the Lambs is a fantastic movie, one of my all time favourites, but it's not really scary. It's all about creepy charisma but there's only really one scene that's actively scary. And, perhaps, that's the secret of its awards success.

 

[rayw]

I'm confused as to what this thread has to do with PG and PG-13..?

The gauntlet was thrown:

Horror films are like the Rap/Hip-Hop Songs of film genres. There's too many of them, they're usually ridiculously explicit, only one out of seventy-four are decent and the only good ones were from decades ago.

The challenge accepted:

The horror genre is just as strong as it's ever been, which is to say that most horror movies suck, but every now and then we get a gem... There aren't any good horror movies being made?! Nonsense.

Game on:

Basically "Not a d@mn thing."

 

[Cracker Funk]

Fernando, I'm glad you've decided to abondon the "horror films used to be artistic" argument, because it was absolutely baseless and completely indefensible.

Unfortunately, your new argument is essentially "the movies I like are better than the movies other people like." And of course, that argument is barely even worth discussing.

It's fine and dandy for you to have your opinions, but when you start to act like your opinions are the authoritative truth, well, nobody is listening to that garbage. Again, it's okay for you to feel the way you do about modern horror, but you should know that you are in the minority.

Cabin in the Woods
Tucker & Dale
Insidious
Paranormal Activity
Let the Right One In
Zombieland
Planet Terror
Saw
Dawn of the Dead (yes, the remake)
28 Days Later

Every single one of these movies is very well-liked, and every single one of them is incredibly innovative. These are not cheap scares but great achievements in artistic creativity. You may not like 'em but a lot of people do, and they are all the proof needed to show that the horror genre is doing just fine.

 

[fernando97echeverria]

Zombieland is a black comedy, and none of the films you listed are good, original, highly praised or remotely groundbreaking.

A lot of people like the Scary Movie series, does that make them "artistically creative"?

 

[rayw]

Every single one of these movies is very well-liked, and every single one of them is incredibly innovative. These are not cheap scares but great achievements in artistic creativity. You may not like 'em but a lot of people do, and they are all the proof needed to show that the horror genre is doing just fine.

Of these films I've seen, I agree.

Zombieland is a black comedy, and none of the films you listed are good, original, praised or remotely groundbreaking.

Not so fast.


Cabin in the Woods - Haven't seen

Tucker & Dale - Haven't seen

Insidious - For a $1.5m budget this was a pretty good spook movie, innovative because not only was the child haunted but the spook his dad escaped in his own childhood... well... saving your child can come at a cost.
IMDB: Ratings: 6.8/10 from 63,782 users
RT: 64 liked it, Average Rating: 3.5/5, User Ratings: 59,161


Paranormal Activity - Budget: $15,000 & Box office: $193,355,800. People vote with their $$. It has spawned a profitable franchise. Innovative not for the urban ghost story but for the grateful avoidance of shaky-cam with an inexpensive production setup - unlike the found footage of 'Blair Witch.'
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/search/?q=Paranormal Activity
IMDB: Ratings: 6.5/10 from 102,137 users
RT: 56 liked it, Average Rating: 3.3/5, User Ratings: 228,552


Let the Right One In - Wonderful re-imagining of the vampire tale not as the seductively powerful Gothic force but as a bitter-sweet melange of a near-immortal + disgusting predation + emotional development of children.
IMDB: Ratings: 8.0/10 from 105,847 users
RT: 89 liked it, Average Rating: 4.2/5, User Ratings: 48,445 <-- And you know how Americans detest anything where they're forced to read subtitles, thus... it was somehow worthy of an Americanized remake.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/let_me_in/
RT: 74 liked it, Average Rating: 3.7/5, User Ratings: 58,392


Zombieland - Taxonomically speaking, IMDB lists its genres as "Action | Comedy | Horror". The protagonists aren't running away from hordes of zombies, terrorized. For the first time in a film they're p!ssed and just dealing with them as they work to achieve some sense of family. George Romero et al weren't doing that.
IMDB: Ratings: 7.8/10 from 176,835 users
RT: 87 liked it, Average Rating: 3.1/5, User Ratings: 512,974


Planet Terror - I didn't care for it. It's just a silly modern interpretation revival of our '70s recollection of B- horror camp, and audiences appreciated it. There was a nice mini-movement going on there along with 'Death Proof', 'Machete', and 'Hobo with a Shotgun.'
IMDB: Ratings: 7.4/10 from 96,512 users
RT: 78 liked it, Average Rating: 3.7/5, User Ratings: 158,277

Saw - Budget. Franchise. 'Nuff said. It's a monster, and a well loved one at that.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/search/?q=saw
Moral dilemmas compelling guilty people to make a sickening choice between two evils. Clever.
IMDB: Ratings: 7.7/10 from 167,306 users
RT: 86 liked it, Average Rating: 3.7/5, User Ratings: 766,585

Dawn of the Dead (yes, the remake) - Haven't seen


28 Days Later - Effing running zombies! No more schlepping around! It's as innovative as the automobile and liberating as the cell phone.
IMDB: Ratings: 7.6/10 from 163,223 users
RT: 82 liked it, Average Rating: 3.6/5, User Ratings: 436,034


Those are largely good scores combined with healthy interest.
They can't legitimately be argued as not "good, original, praised or remotely groundbreaking".


That said, I also agree that MOST horror films are stupid dreck. HA!

 

[Cracker Funk]

Zombieland is a black comedy, and none of the films you listed are good, original, highly praised or remotely groundbreaking.

Wow. Do you have any idea how extreme your opinion is? To make such an extreme statement about movies like 28 Days Later and Cabin in the Woods is only an indication that your opinions are WAY off-base with how pretty much the rest of the world feels (or at least the fans of the genre). Your statements alienate yourself, almost nullifying your opinion of any worth to the rest of the world.

Ray, online user ratings don't really mean anything, especially when comparing contemporary movies with classics. You kinda just gotta talk to people (in person). 28 Days Later and Cabin in the Woods are pretty much universally cherished, and accepted as two of the greatest horror films of all time. Anybody who doesn't know this is living underneath a rock.

 

[DeJager]

Cabin in the Woods
Tucker & Dale
Insidious
Paranormal Activity
Let the Right One In
Zombieland
Planet Terror
Saw
Dawn of the Dead (yes, the remake)
28 Days Later

All GREAT horror movies.

 

[rayw]

Ray, online user ratings don't really mean anything, especially when comparing contemporary movies with classics. You kinda just gotta talk to people (in person).

I believe that exact approach is the foundation for the story of 'Moneyball.'

 

[mus]

I'm never scared by a horror movie... if the setting is right, and I'm watching one alone, I may be creeped a bit, or disturbed.


Now, just because they never scare me doesn't mean they aren't good. I like a lot of horror films, even though I particularly find it to be the genre with the highest amount of awful movies. (also, it seems to be more than half of the movies at my local family video.)

 

[rayw]

I like a lot of horror films, even though I particularly find it to be the genre with the highest amount of awful movies.

Yep.

Too many are slow and boring as they either "build up to something" (wake me when you get there) or have too much filler to stretch a 30min story into 110mins.
Too many have the most nonsensical stories.
Too many have characters that FAIL to do the most common sense things.

Frankly modern life has largely insulated most of us from harming ourselves.
It's difficult to fabricate a scenario where we can't summon a hornet's nest of support to overcome whatever bizarre set of circumstances have befallen us.

And of course there's a large difference between what will scare or spook a twenty year old and a forty+ year old.
This is where the dreck floods in.
There's a whole lotta sub-$4m horror that's just dreadfully stupid.

YES, there are some good horror movies being made currently.
YES, most of the horror movies being made are cr@p.
The ratio of cr@p to gold is huge.

 

[rayw]

The 80% Rule: Story Craft - Especially Horror Films

What makes stories interesting, or should, is that the characters face a set of circumstances, usually extraordinary circumstances, and must solve some sort internal/external conflict.
This means making decisions.
Now, we don't wanna see what we would do in the extraordinary circumstances. That'd be just a wee boring.
But we don't wanna see idiots doing completely stupid things, either, otherwise we just squirm in our seats getting progressively more and more irritated at the character(s).

So, the conundrum goes - the protag, and sometimes the antag, has gotta not do what we would do - but also - NOT what an idiot would do.

80% of the time idiots make the stupid decisions we might pick 20% of the time.

Stupid ---------V
Smart --->

Hopefully, your primary characters would pick what any sane person would chose to do or say 80% of the time at least 80% of the times the opportunity or situation arose.


If you find yourself sitting in the seat watching a character do something stupid - that's a 20% of the time violation.
Every time that character makes another violation of the 20% stupid rule you get irritated some more.
If your character continues to make stupid decisions no sane person would make 80% of the time - then the character is an idiot - and the story probably sucks - especially if it's horror.

Better be a horror comedy, and even then...

Try to have your characters do the smart thing 80% of the time.

 

[JoshL]

28 Days Later and Cabin in the Woods are pretty much universally cherished, and accepted as two of the greatest horror films of all time. Anybody who doesn't know this is living underneath a rock.

I'm not a fan of 28 Days, but as you say, it's generally well received. That said, the first 15 minutes are absolutely brilliant...absolutely stunning cinema (and not just because I'm a big Godspeed You Black Emperor fan). I wish the film held up better than that, but I prefer my zombies as character drama rather than zombies as action movie, so that's my tastes rather than a flaw with the movie.

Cabin seems to divide fans down the middle (as it should). The critics liked it a lot. People who love horror movies (and have a sense of humor about themselves) seemed to like it. A lot of the complaints I've heard about it were people not expecting it to be funny, or not quite getting the style of humor, which I absolutely understand. But, like it or not, it's a brilliant film. rayw, I think that you might actually like it, doubly so given your post on stupid decisions!

And I definitely agree that Pan's Labyrinth is an amazing film, and that it is every bit a horror as it is a fantasy film as it is a period piece. I don't think good films have to fit nicely inside of one genre. Del Toro has done some great things with horror (Devil's Backbone) and his popcorn flicks are pretty awesome too (I loved Hellboy 2...I am a huge fantasy fan though). Even Mimic was better than it had any right to be (though not great by a long stretch). What keeps him from being this generation's Argento is his sense of whimsy, which I hope he never, ever loses.

Anyway, horror movies. I love 'em. Even when they are bad!

 

[Jack Lynt]

Mimic is among the best.

Yeah, it sure seemed like Let the Right One In, at least, got plenty of critical acclaim.

So let's have a list of R-rated horror films from the last few decades too, please, if possible. =)

It does seem like there used to be more big (as in ones run in first run theaters, I guess) horror films when I was younger, and popping up more regularly. I wonder if that has anything to do with R-rated films being somewhat passé.

Not much of a fan of the genre. I like the good ones. Most are not so good. And I really don't care for being scared, and gore for gore's sake is meh.

 

[harpsichoid]

I'm not a fan of 28 Days, but as you say, it's generally well received. That said, the first 15 minutes are absolutely brilliant...absolutely stunning cinema (and not just because I'm a big Godspeed You Black Emperor fan). I wish the film held up better than that, but I prefer my zombies as character drama rather than zombies as action movie, so that's my tastes rather than a flaw with the movie.

What about from the point of view of a composer?

I feel that recent horror film scores are getting increasingly insipid, relying on big cinematic toms and boom sounds for most of the atmosphere. 28 days later is one of the few that stands out, in my opinion.

The biggest exception for me though is Silent Hill, which has an exceptional score.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp3OSEmNZwU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcEWws7ojM

 

[JoshL]

Right there with you with the Silent Hill score (and the film in general!) I'd have to watch 28 Days again to really form an opinion on the score...I haven't seen it since it came out, and it didn't leave much of an impression after the Godspeed track. But then again, what could?

I did like some of Charlie Clouser's work on the Saw series. I loved Alejandro Amenábar's score for The Others. And of course House of 1000 Corpses must be mentioned. But for the most part I agree...most horror film scores these days tend to be pretty forgettable and generic.

And, hey, both Akira Yamaoka and Jeff Danna are back for the new Silent Hill! The former, of course, having done great work with the games, and the latter some pretty nice scores on his own (Tideland and Parnassus). Very excited about this! And as an absolute digression from horror video game movies, some friends who do Fatal Frame cosplay are doing a fan film and want music from me. Fatal Frame is my favorite horror series, and sadly has not been adapted to film yet. Yet we get how many Resident Evil movies? Bah!