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HOMEWORK: Principles Of Sound Design

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wheatgrinder

In response to this thread:
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=45351


Operating on the theory that "well begun is well finished"
Help me get this opening scene of my short "The Hot Rod" as well designed as I can!

The feel is comical, I have prerecorded music track that the band "in the bar" should be playing, I want the music to be heard through out the sequence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ebn8Jra7fg&

Where do we start?


For those of you looking for a scene to practice sound design on, you can download this same footage from vimeo:
https://vimeo.com/57632322
Password: it-rt440

Id rather you didn't publicly pass this around too liberally, but feel free to post your results back here.

FYI: Production sound only: Recorded by IT member 2001Productions with a Marantz pdm660 (the old 16 bit one) Oade brothers moded ... bomming an AT835b mic, it sounded pretty dang good but still a bit hissy. Plus there was a light rain that you could hear as added hiss..

I used adobe audition CS5.5 patterned based noise reduction to clean it up, worked pretty good. There is a bit of "flanging" on one shot , I need to redo the NR on that one..
 
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If I understand the original Principles thread... a logical approach would be:

Identify possible sound design elements in time
For example:
The noise of the crowd as the door opens
The buzz of the neon sign at 00:35:00
Squeak of door opening at 00:36:00

but I feel this misses the important emotional aspect.. maybe that comes in weather you use those sounds or not??? maybe what Im describing in the list above is the color palet we have to chose from for our sound painting.. how we use those colors comes next..
 
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I think what's very important with sound design is to find where the sounds are, as you've done above, and then filter then for nuance.

For example, the sound of a neon buzz or a squeaking door are actually quite cliched things that you tend not to hear in isolation in real life. So, if you hear it in a film it immediately draws the viewer into thinking- oh, that's the sound of a squeaking door- which is the opposite effect you want.

If you acknowledge that the neon sign at 00:35:00 is creating a buzz, then rather than associating the noise with a specific shot, that noise then has to become part of the landscape of the scene. So long as that neon light is casting light on the actors, we ought to be able to hear, however faint, its distinctive buzz. But it's also worth thinking about whether that's a noise that the viewer is familiar with or whether it's something distracting. For example, a closing door tents to make three sounds: hand on handle, slight displacement of air as it closes and, loudest of all, the noise of it shutting. Hearing a squeak in the hinges is quite rare unless it's being closed agonisingly slowly, and what with the sound of the bar noise, music and scuffle going on, it's going to be distracting if you can hear that clearly.

The sound of the scene has to focus on what the most important thing is and then build out from there. Extraneous sounds ought to be judged, in terms of clarity and distance, from the aural focal point of the scene- usually the dialogue, but for the opening to this it'll be the noise of them getting thrown to the grown, then getting up talking, fighting...etc.

I make these points/suggestions, only partially as a filmmaker (and one who has never and will never do his own sound work) but mainly as a film viewer and the sort of snotty theoretical practitioner that's so immensely irritating.
 
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Interesting first two responses. I've no intention of being in the least bit insulting here, so please don't take it that way.

Neither of you are thinking about sound purely as a storytelling tool; you are thinking about how to create a logical audio reality which does little more than echoes what you are seeing. You are thinking about how the sound can support the images, rather than about how the sound can enhance the story. In other words, you are thinking mainly in terms of sound editing (which is a technical skill) rather than in terms of sound design (which is an art form)! My last post in the Principles of Sound Design deals extensively with this subject. In fairness though, you wheatgrinder do acknowledge that you are maybe missing the emotional aspect, which is a good start.

Let's take the sound of the door opening: We can choose to hear this or not, we might even make it particularly dominant, to kick start the scene but why are we discussing the first thing we see which could make a sound rather than discussing the story? Why don't we start the story during the titles? We could maybe fade in the club music and crowd (from the aural POV of the camera with the door shut) and half buried in the music some drunken shouting, argument, crashing sounds or even a funny ADR line. As we cut from the titles we can increase the volume and change the EQ of the crowd and music, in time with the door opening. This will give the audience a greater feeling of involvement in the story than the sound of a creaky door opening. The club is providing us with a very rich palette of potential sounds, we don't need hear the door unless it is going to help the story.

The Neon Light: Again, what is the story, where is it going and how can the sound of the neon light help tell the story? If this were a sci-fi film with an alien spaceship about appear shortly and the guys being throw out of the bar was just incidental to this story, then we could use the buzz/hum of the neon light to draw the audience's attention away from the guys and we could maybe morph that buzz/hum gradually into some sort of alien spaceship engine sound. This story is not about an alien spaceship though and the guys being thrown out of the bar is not incidental, it is the story. We want the audience to focus on the real story, the guys being thrown out, not the neon light or something out of shot. Bare in mind that the human brain is essentially a pattern matching machine, if it hears a sound it will automatically search for and focus on what is making that sound. Regardless of how nice the neon light makes the shot look, this isn't a cinematography demonstration it's a film, a story, so no neon light sound, at all! :)

Instead, we're going to use the pattern matching nature of the audience's brains to manipulate them, by creating Foley for the scuffle in the doorway to sit on top of our continuing bar background and draw the audience's attention to the guys and their story, rather than away from it. Credit to Nick here, he did identify the need to focus the sound on the guys' scuffle rather than the neon light. There's another vital step beyond this though, as far as sound design is concerned. We've got the audience focusing on what we want them to be focusing on but what do we want them to feel/experience? We could for example record Foley of heavy foot shuffles, scrapes and skids, a t-shirt starting to rip and some very strained grunting sounds, to make the audience feel the tension and violence of the scene. This could play well, creating misdirection and contrast with the comedy to come. Alternatively, our Foley could be a little sparser, far less dramatic and menacing, the grunts milder or even a little silly and maybe even a witty ADR insult from the bar owner. Now we're pushing the audience towards light comedy rather than dark and violent. The genre and style of the music we choose for the band in the background will also greatly help to manipulate the audience into interpreting the scene as either comedy or violent, as will the sound of the bar's patrons. For example, are we going to hear in the background some gentle walla, the odd bit of laughter and some glass or cutlery clinks or are we going to hear some raucous chanting, shouting and some glass breaking? The decision of which way to play this part of the scene, of what we want the audience to experience, is of course the Director's.

I won't go through the whole film in this kind of detail, it would take pages but hopefully I've given you some useful info to help you think about sound in terms of manipulating the audience's experience of the story, rather than in terms of just creating a logical sonic background to support the picture.

G
 
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NickClapper said:
Hearing a squeak in the hinges is quite rare unless it's being closed agonisingly slowly, and what with the sound of the bar noise, music and scuffle going on........
Click to expand...

Although it is a film cliché that all doors must squeak.

http://www.filmsound.org/cliche/


A.P.E. - I hate you. When someone makes me think about being the artist rather than the technician the artist becomes harder to access.


For me, when there is the time to be a sound designer rather than just a sound editor, I just start throwing stuff at a scene - I just freestyle it, almost like an improv from when I was a musician. I don't analyze it, I just let it happen. I may even do a couple of different approaches. The results are usually fair to bad, but the emotional content is there. Then I go back and become the technical artist (is there such a term?), creating the myriad of clean, clear, precise, targeted sounds that (re)create the emotional impact I desire.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
For me, when there is the time to be a sound designer rather than just a sound editor, I just start throwing stuff at a scene - I just freestyle it, almost like an improv from when I was a musician. I don't analyze it, I just let it happen. I may even do a couple of different approaches. The results are usually fair to bad, but the emotional content is there.
Click to expand...

I've worked on a number of projects where the director has spent the budget unwisely and blown the schedule during filming, leaving the audio post team with no time for anything other than a quick "fix and mix". Most of my projects though did have the time and personnel for proper sound design, although the deadlines were always a struggle and allowed little spare time for experimentation. For a number of years I worked closely with various highly experienced and talented sound designers and directors and learnt something about how they analysed and approached sound design to save experimentation time which they didn't have. I would love to work on a truly huge budget film where there is the time and money to really experiment.

Interesting what you say about your approach being influenced from your past as a musician. I believe the same is true of me. There's not much opportunity for improv or experimentation when playing in a symphony orchestra though! It's much more about preparation through analysis and working out what you're going to do before you get to the rehearsal. I'm not saying my approach to sound design is necessarily any better than yours, the important thing is that there is sound design, real emotional content and in that respect you're well ahead of the curve. So many of those who work in the low budget sector call themselves Sound Designers when really they are Sound Editors, usually this is not just because they've not been given the time to be anything other than a sound editor but because they don't know the difference!

wheatgrinder said:
Fantastic input from Nick, APE and Alcove... It really sunk in.
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Glad it was useful! In a nutshell I am saying don't look at the picture and identify where/what the sounds are. Instead, look at the story, at what you want the audience to focus on and feel, and then see what sounds you could justifiably use to manipulate your audience.

I'd like to note: We've been very lucky with this scene you've donated. The bar in the background provides us with almost endless sound design opportunities, some of which may not be obvious at first glance. For example, in the background we could (if we wish) have the band finish a piece of music, the patrons cheer or applaud and the band start a new, possibly completely different style/feel piece of music. We can time these background audio changes with what is going on between our two characters, to punctuate a line or piece of action or to change the pace and/or emotion the audience perceives. For example we could change to a slightly lighter (or darker, or more aggressive, etc.) piece of music at 01:11, when the guy pushes his friend. These almost subliminal changes in pace and/or feel add significance, interest and ultimately entertainment value to your film. However, if instead of being thrown out of a bar our two characters were being thrown out of a library, from a sound design point of view we'd be pretty screwed! Unless your shot list for that sequence established some nearby traffic and/or other sources of sound we could use in our palette.

Don't forget: Always think about the overall shape of the scene, not just what is happening at any particular moment. Maybe we (or rather the director) wants to start the scene darker and straighter and gradually ramp up the comedy towards the end, rather than just mild comedy throughout. Creating shape is essential to the vast majority of scenes, it adds pace and involves the audience more. If my use of the words "pace", "interest", "involvement" and "entertainment value" are starting to sound like a mantra, GOOD! If you want your films to have commercial value, at every stage of the filmmaking process these words need to become your mantra too!

Lastly, a few pointers/suggestions on how we might use sound to enhance or ramp up the comedy towards the end (if this is the shape the director wants!). In addition to any changes in sound (or music) which could justifiably come from the bar:
1. Consider carefully the Foley during the fighting between our characters. Do we want to imply real violence with some solid punching/pushing sounds? Maybe the skinny guy's punch sounds have more of an element of a girly slap about them?
2. Maybe (or maybe not) the dialogue should change perspective with the camera POV at 01:16, so even from a distance it looks (and sounds) like a girly fight.
3. Consider the grunting sounds during the fight, are they implying what you want them to imply?
4. Maybe at 01:26 when the skinny guy is pushed against the car, we hear an obvious (but not too dominant) metal impact and bending sound. From the subsequent dialogue the characters are obviously unaware of the damage they have caused. Our audience now knows something our characters don't, maybe this will help them to feel involved in the story rather than just being spectators? We could milk the comedy even more; just after this impact, the car alarm could go off for a second or so before breaking and dying away comically in time with the CU of the skinny guy's reaction at abut 01:28.
5. Really go for a disgusting splat sound for the vomit impact, if you want some gross out comedy factor. Also, subtly blend in some squelchy element with one or more of the following sounds: The mouth wipe, when he slaps his friend on the arm at 01:48 and/or to every left footstep of the friend from 01:50 to the end.

G
 
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I wish I could work on this now! But I have a paying gig to finish by the end of the month! (shooting tomorrow!) so until thats done I have to put off implementing these great ideas. Though, that doesn't keep me from talking about here in the odd slow moments at the day job.
 
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AudioPostExpert said:
I've worked on a number of projects where the director has spent the budget unwisely and blown the schedule during filming, leaving the audio post team with no time for anything other than a quick "fix and mix".
Click to expand...

That describes 90% of my business - a quick dialog edit, add only the most obviously needed Foley & sound effects, spot the score and source music, then a very basic mix. In fact, that's exactly how I "advertise" that type of audio post work - Fix and Mix.

It still sounds about 684.39% better than when it walked into my studio...
 
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Alcove Audio said:
That describes 90% of my business - a quick dialog edit, add only the most obviously needed Foley & sound effects, spot the score and source music, then a very basic mix.
Click to expand...

Ah, that explains the angle of some of your responses. Although there is always a considerable amount of fixing in every audio post gig, I never usually take on solely "Fix & Mix" gigs, although some of the documentary work I do ends up being pretty close to just a "Fix & Mix".

Alcove Audio said:
It still sounds about 684.39% better than when it walked into my studio...
Click to expand...

I'm obviously much better at audio post than you then. What leaves my studio is usually about 684.42% better! :)

G
 
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wheatgrinder said:
That was fun. I was visualizing and audializing (what is the audio equivalent to visualization called anyway?) The squelch of every left foot step as they walk away.. funny.

I wish I could work on this now!
Click to expand...

Good to see you getting inspired! I see the majority of filmmakers on IT ignoring sound design or being bored or scared of it. I find these views difficult to comprehend. While there is a fair bit on the technical side of sound to deal with, Sound Design is without doubt one of the most creative of ALL the film crafts. You'll make mistakes, it certainly won't be great to start with and it will cost a lot to get it to world class standards but isn't this true of pretty much every aspect of filmmaking? Go for it (when you have time), sound design really is fun!

G
 
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Interesting audio debate going on here. I certainly don't get to do the big budget stuff that A.P.E does, and I am closer to A.A, in that I do a bit of this and a bit of that, in the audio world...mostly for people with modest budgets.
Talking about sound design though...I had a lot of fun a few months back basically sound designing (as well as recording) for an "audio only project"..no picture......but it gave me the chance to do soundscapes behind story-telling, for creating 'atmosphere,' to give people a "mind's-eye" for them to visualize the story for themselves. It also included music in a range of styles, which I either was straight out audio engineer, or in some of it, I was also a musician. I was able to use many of the thousands of sfx I've recorded over the years in the production too...layered to create effect.
No film involved......but gee it was fun because it was all "sound".
 
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From my point of view (knowing full well that you are both entirely correct in your approaches), I try to come at every story element of every stage and element of production from the middle out. What I mean is that in every shot/scene/sequence/story, I try to find that pivotal moment and decide what comes before and after and what that says about the story.

In this scene, I see the near miss on the car as the pivotal moment when the seriousness of the friends fight gives way to a business as usual friendship moment between drinking buddies (I have no other context for the story than just what we've been given).

So I'd start from those two sides fo that moment and work up to the climax of the scene, then shift it into the lighter comedy... I'd hint at it before the change somehow so it's not just hitting over the head with a brick as the change happens (I like the bar soundtrack change idea alot).

At the exact moment of contact with the car, maybe a squeaking as they stop just before applying any weight to the hood, but are still touching it (like a hand across a large pane of glass kind of squeak), then up and into the the "I love you man" moment with a lighter sound track in the background ("I've got friends in low places").

That's how I approach everything. Especially after reading Tony Barr's "Acting for the Camera" and how he approaches the emotional journey of a character not just within a scene, but from line to line.
 
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