Hollywood intern lawsuit

B

Blade_Jones

Hollywood interns allege they're being taken advantage of in this lawsuit. This 40 year old guy who left a $95K a year job to become an editor should have consulted with ANYONE in this forum first! Looks like he was taken advantage of though. Looks like they liked sending him out to pick up soup and at one point was sent out to buy a pillow for someone. Why spend money on a PA or an assistant when you can get an intern to do it for free? Great for the bottom line.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...aid-internships,0,1126770.story#axzz2yEwDfFl8
 
rayw said:
It's a matter of proving in a court of law who "benefitted most" from the internship.
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Hm, that's interesting. I thought the law was pretty cut and dry: if you're not paying them a wage and they are not receiving actual school credit, then it's illegal. Is that not actually the case?
 
Dreadylocks said:
Hm, that's interesting. I thought the law was pretty cut and dry: if you're not paying them a wage and they are not receiving actual school credit, then it's illegal. Is that not actually the case?
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He's getting school credit so we can make him sweep floors, clean toilets, work on a chain gang, etc. No.
 
I think it's silly that they say the intern can provide no immediate benefit to the studio. Personally I believe it should benefit both parties, otherwise what is the point?

And yeah these guys are running errands, IMO if they go and pick up lunch, then their lunch should be free included. Seems reasonable and if you want to watch a pro edit or do sound mixing then I think that's a fair exchange.
 
This is a form of wage theft, and, in a similar vein, the workers at Mickey D's have filed a class-action suit against the company and its franchisees. I understand the workers at another burger chain have recently won such a suit.

Basically, the workers are shortchanged of their wages, because, for example, they're supposed to start early to prepare the ingredients, but they don't get paid for it. Either that or they're supposed to transport stuff around in their cars, but they have to pay for the gas.

I've never worked for free, but I was a victim of wage theft in my earlier days, and I promised that, if I ever made it, I would never do this. And, to a great extent, I have succeeded, because my employees and former employees have all been happy to work for me - that's something to be proud of. :cool:

The world economy is in a slump, but the only thing that can avoid this, and that is to have constant growth - growth in revenues and, above all, growth in profits. With growth, there will be more and bigger pies to share, and everyone can enjoy the fruits of their labor. This is a brutal standard, and most can't do it, but those who do can be rightly proud of their success.
 
sfoster said:
I think it's silly that they say the intern can provide no immediate benefit to the studio. Personally I believe it should benefit both parties, otherwise what is the point?

And yeah these guys are running errands, IMO if they go and pick up lunch, then their lunch should be free included. Seems reasonable and if you want to watch a pro edit or do sound mixing then I think that's a fair exchange.
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Why do studios have to benefit? Why do studios have to have interns in the first place? In other fields you don't have to have interns and everything works just fine. Without internships people will just find other avenues to learn and get jobs.
 
Blade_Jones said:
Why do studios have to benefit?
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Why would you take time away from important work to answer questions from interns if you receive absolutely no benefit from the interns being there in the first place?

People want to intern. Yes they can find other avenues to get jobs, they can become a landscaper or flip burgers. But thats not really the point is it?
 
Don't interns sign contracts, which say how much and when one must be paid?

Oh, and... 95k per month??? :hmm: Is he a president or something?
 
Aaahhhhhh.... The difference between how it's supposed to be and how it really is.

Internships, as they are supposed to be, are an unpaid job so you can learn a profession; you can call it an apprenticeship if you want to.

As it's supposed to be - a new intern gets all sorts of distasteful jobs to do; this "hazing" is part of the vetting process to be sure that the intern has the commitment to follow through. A friend of mine interned his way into the music recording biz in the late 1970's. He go'fered, cleaned, etc. Then he became the go'fer who sat in a corner of the control room to fetch for the session. But this is where the learning began, observing sessions by experienced recording engineers (and some great musicians and singers). Besides fetching coffee or whatever he would also be sent into the studio to move a mic, change an amp setting, etc. Then he would be a third pair of hands on the mix, and was asked to leader out multitrack and mix tapes. After about two years he was given late night "budget" sessions. It only took him another 18 months to become one of their requested session engineers. He worked hard, kept his ears and eyes open, learned a lot and got a chance. And that's how an internship is supposed to work.

The problem is that there are many, many more applicants for internships than internships available, and there are too many companies that take advantage of the dreams of those wanting to be a part of the entertainment industry.
 
I've become very skeptical of internships, because they're either a source of cheap labor or a means where the bosses can go on power trips. That said, I did intern under my mentor, who paid me a living wage (but not much more), and he got me started on my career path, so I won't say all internships are bad.
 
Gotta like the name Lake of Tears Inc.

When the production company you're working for has a name like that, well, might be a bad omen right there. :P
 
All this story seems strange to me.

First of all, a man has a 95k salary. Is that per month? Or per year? Or is it his business income? I'm asking it, because if that's his salary per month (I didn't know such salaries exist for hired people), he could invest some of his savings and do a movie himself. People buy cars and houses and pay years for them. He could take a loan of 500k or 1mil. He didn't need to become an intern.

Secondly, he's 40+, isn't he? I understand when people between 20-25 are used for dirty jobs, that have nothing to do with what they're aiming for, but... 40+? Cleaning? And it's not just a man from the street... it's a man with 95k salary, who probably knows his rights! He can't be so naive as the 20-25 aged people!

Finally, when a well known director is employing a man of 40+, who works in a good job and knows his rights... Isn't he afraid to be taken to court, if he's going against the employee's rights? You know, the latter can hire a good lawyer too! And no matter who are you, I believe nobody likes court processes. Moreover, the employee can make a big noise out of it, bring journalists... become a real pain in the butt....

If the story was about a student who was used that way, or an immigrant, that would be believable. It happens. Everywhere. But not with grown up people from high society classes!
 
Inarius said:
All this story seems strange to me.

First of all, a man has a 95k salary. Is that per month? Or per year? Or is it his business income? I'm asking it, because if that's his salary per month (I didn't know such salaries exist for hired people), he could invest some of his savings and do a movie himself. People buy cars and houses and pay years for them. He could take a loan of 500k or 1mil. He didn't need to become an intern.

Secondly, he's 40+, isn't he? I understand when people between 20-25 are used for dirty jobs, that have nothing to do with what they're aiming for, but... 40+? Cleaning? And it's not just a man from the street... it's a man with 95k salary, who probably knows his rights! He can't be so naive as the 20-25 aged people!

Finally, when a well known director is employing a man of 40+, who works in a good job and knows his rights... Isn't he afraid to be taken to court, if he's going against the employee's rights? You know, the latter can hire a good lawyer too! And no matter who are you, I believe nobody likes court processes. Moreover, the employee can make a big noise out of it, bring journalists... become a real pain in the butt....

If the story was about a student who was used that way, or an immigrant, that would be believable. It happens. Everywhere. But not with grown up people from high society classes!
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No, when someone says 95k salary it means per year, and before taxes. Depending on the state he was probably only taking home ~70k. So he wasn't poor but it was a solidly middle class (or lower-middle if he has any kids) job, definitely not "High Society."

To your other point, I'll just say that I think people should be treated the same no matter what their age is.
 
Dreadylocks said:
To your other point, I'll just say that I think people should be treated the same no matter what their age is.
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I love the "should" word. In reality, it happens many times, that young people, especially teenagers or students, get exploited and used to do dirty jobs, but not grown ups. A grown up man, no matter how desperate he is, would quickly understand whether he's given an opportunity or gets used as a piece of crap.

C'mon! Seriously! You tell a 40 years old man to buy a pillow and clean the area, and expect him to believe he's doing it to build his filmmaking career?

And suppose you're a 40 years old man from lower middle class, who got used that way. You can't hire a good lawyer... Your chances to win the court process are low. Would you shout out about it?! Suppose you got kids. They go to school and get mocked like, - "Ha ha ha! Your Daddy is a filmmaking bitch!", - or something like that. Would you do that to your kids?! I don't know, I would be quiet not to ashame myself, unless I've got a really good lawyer.

I assume this story is not quite what it seems.
 
To be intern-legal (in any business) is that you do work that the company would have not have paid anyone to do (ie: one off projects) OR you do work that that someone else is already getting paid to do (that person is now watching you or golfing).
 
Inarius said:
I love the "should" word. In reality, it happens many times, that young people, especially teenagers or students, get exploited and used to do dirty jobs, but not grown ups. A grown up man, no matter how desperate he is, would quickly understand whether he's given an opportunity or gets used as a piece of crap.

C'mon! Seriously! You tell a 40 years old man to buy a pillow and clean the area, and expect him to believe he's doing it to build his filmmaking career?

And suppose you're a 40 years old man from lower middle class, who got used that way. You can't hire a good lawyer... Your chances to win the court process are low. Would you shout out about it?! Suppose you got kids. They go to school and get mocked like, - "Ha ha ha! Your Daddy is a filmmaking bitch!", - or something like that. Would you do that to your kids?! I don't know, I would be quiet not to ashame myself, unless I've got a really good lawyer.

I assume this story is not quite what it seems.
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I can't speak to how it is in Israel. But over here in the states there are people of all ages, including senior citizens who have already "retired," working crappy jobs for low wages. And if they're really lucky, their crap jobs offer health insurance. I live it. I see it all around me. Rest assured, it's nothing at all unusual. At least over here it isn't.

About "taking advantage" (depending on your view) of interns in the film industry, that's what's new and news in this story. Using interns for menial tasks and without paying them is, or has been, business as usual. Fox and Lake of Tears took him and his fellow plaintiffs on expecting to be able to do this as usual and not expecting to be sued for it, let alone losing such a lawsuit. Or so I gather. If the plaintiffs win their case, or if its upheld, it will set a new precedent.
 
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