I have a question;the Sony HDR-FX1 compresses the HD 1080i to MPEG-2 on a miniDV tape. When you import it into a NLE (for me FCP on a G5) it would be so compressed, how is this to edit with? How is the chroma Keying compared to an uncompressed SD DV such as the AG-DVX100A? I want 16:9 and a film look but I want the highest quality in picture. I can apply filters in post to give the HD a film look. I want to make a movie with a-lot of composting which is the better way the sony or the AG-DVX100A with an anamorphic lens?
HDR-FX1 Questions???
- Thread starter mainframe311
- Start date
I've seen nothing but rave reviews of the DVX100A.. there are a number of people here who have it and absolutely love it.
I'm guessing the keying would work fine on either, I haven't had any problems pulling good keys off footage shot with my Panasonic PV-GS200, and it's quite a bit lower end than either of these.
The two biggest things against the HDR-FX1 that I see are:
1) There are not decks available to handle the format yet.. so any data transfer will abolutely HAVE to be done with the camera
2) It's too new. Being the only camera available that will store HD onto a standard miniDV tape, there's not really any kind of track record for it yet.
The second issue is probably the bigger one. It would be unfortunate to spend all the money on one when either, a) A different camera will work just fine, and/or b) another manufacturer will release a competing product within the next year driving the cost of both down.
But, don't get me wrong.. I'd love to have one of those HDRs to play around with.
Hope that helps a little bit.
Oh, and by the way...
I'm guessing the keying would work fine on either, I haven't had any problems pulling good keys off footage shot with my Panasonic PV-GS200, and it's quite a bit lower end than either of these.
The two biggest things against the HDR-FX1 that I see are:
1) There are not decks available to handle the format yet.. so any data transfer will abolutely HAVE to be done with the camera
2) It's too new. Being the only camera available that will store HD onto a standard miniDV tape, there's not really any kind of track record for it yet.
The second issue is probably the bigger one. It would be unfortunate to spend all the money on one when either, a) A different camera will work just fine, and/or b) another manufacturer will release a competing product within the next year driving the cost of both down.
But, don't get me wrong.. I'd love to have one of those HDRs to play around with.
Hope that helps a little bit.
Oh, and by the way...
Due to the extremely high compression of HDV chroma keying will get rather messy. It's not something I want to mess around with although I'm sure it could be done. For lots of compositing I would look into getting Ultimatte AdvantEdge plugin and use the DVX. Special effects are MUCH easier to work with when you have 24 real frames (instead of 60 fields).
What is your means of distribution? For theaters I can see, possibly, using HDV (although I am sure movement and compression artifacts will be enormously higher than DV when viewed on a large screen) but for DVD distribution HDV is really a waste of time and money right now. There are formats for HD DVDs being tossed around but we have yet to see anything (and in any case nearly everyone will not be able to play HD DVDs when they come out. It may take years.)
Editing is also a pain. You will need to acquire a NLE that can handle HDV footage - this often requires an expensive plugin and capture card. You will also need to convert from MPEG2 to an uncompressed format for editing (well you COULD edit in MPEG2 but that would suck...).
So... my opinion: go for a DVX unless you absolutely need to go to film (in which case you might be better off buying short ends of film rather than HDV).
What is your means of distribution? For theaters I can see, possibly, using HDV (although I am sure movement and compression artifacts will be enormously higher than DV when viewed on a large screen) but for DVD distribution HDV is really a waste of time and money right now. There are formats for HD DVDs being tossed around but we have yet to see anything (and in any case nearly everyone will not be able to play HD DVDs when they come out. It may take years.)
Editing is also a pain. You will need to acquire a NLE that can handle HDV footage - this often requires an expensive plugin and capture card. You will also need to convert from MPEG2 to an uncompressed format for editing (well you COULD edit in MPEG2 but that would suck...).
So... my opinion: go for a DVX unless you absolutely need to go to film (in which case you might be better off buying short ends of film rather than HDV).
Speaking of HD-DVD... I was just reading an article in Popular Mechanics that says that HD-DVD might not even take off... there's a similar, supposedly superior disk design called Blue Ray, I believe, that is said to offer more storage and better images...
Either way, though, the point about HighDef for a DVD release is right now is entirely accruate. Whatever format DVDs come in next, it will take a while to catch up. People are still using VCRs out there...
Either way, though, the point about HighDef for a DVD release is right now is entirely accruate. Whatever format DVDs come in next, it will take a while to catch up. People are still using VCRs out there...
It will probably be another VHS/Beta situation.. both HD-DVD and Blue Ray will compete for a few years until one fades away to near-nothingness..
in the event that it is like the VHS/Beta war, blue ray would probably go away, being the superior product..
in the event that it is like the VHS/Beta war, blue ray would probably go away, being the superior product..
A bit late on this but let me help to enlighten:
You will be best to use Cineform's ConnectHD, seen here: http://cineform.com/products/ConnectHD.htm in conjunction with Vegas 5b or equivelent in another NLE. ConnectHD encodes the mpeg transport stream losslessly and some have reported it is as easy to work with HDV as it is DV using this codec.
HDV utilizing Mini-DV will be around until at least this time next year when BluRay comes out. I am pretty sure this or any of the other WIP storage mediums will become the norm.
But don't fool yourself, HDV is BEAUTIFUL. I have seen and played in Vegas with acquisition mpeg transport streams from the FX1 and in my mind despite the limitations of mpeg2 encoding it absolutely blows away any DV, period. Also, we have yet to see the true result of Cineframe24, but in all estimation it is not a replacement for 24p (which may not see its way to HDV type systems any time soon).
A good place for FX1 info is http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com .
It is the future of digital films.... for how long is anyones question but do yourself a favor and at least check it out. It will be well worth your time.
You will be best to use Cineform's ConnectHD, seen here: http://cineform.com/products/ConnectHD.htm in conjunction with Vegas 5b or equivelent in another NLE. ConnectHD encodes the mpeg transport stream losslessly and some have reported it is as easy to work with HDV as it is DV using this codec.
HDV utilizing Mini-DV will be around until at least this time next year when BluRay comes out. I am pretty sure this or any of the other WIP storage mediums will become the norm.
But don't fool yourself, HDV is BEAUTIFUL. I have seen and played in Vegas with acquisition mpeg transport streams from the FX1 and in my mind despite the limitations of mpeg2 encoding it absolutely blows away any DV, period. Also, we have yet to see the true result of Cineframe24, but in all estimation it is not a replacement for 24p (which may not see its way to HDV type systems any time soon).
A good place for FX1 info is http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com .
It is the future of digital films.... for how long is anyones question but do yourself a favor and at least check it out. It will be well worth your time.
Last edited:
can we please have an update to this thread? i am trying to decide between the sony HD vs. the panasonic DVX100 vs. simply waiting a while for panasonic to make a prosumer HD. i wondered if people round here had any opinion on whether the converting of 60i to 24 p using some ?software was a viable option for making HD that looks more like real film. or perhaps the discussion has migrated to another thread. if so, ? thanks.
Sony FX1
I attended DVFilm's 24P class at the beginning of the month. One of the things Marcus van Bavel (owner of DVFilm) said is NOT to use the FX1 if you're attempting to get a quality film look with the possibility of a transfer to film in the future. He advises (if you haven't already gotten an FX1) getting the ZU1 and shooting in 50i mode and then using DV Filmmaker to process the footage to 24P.
Having said that...
I did see some FX1 60i footage processed to 24P AND transferred to 35mm film and it looked very very good. But so did the DVX100A's footage blown up to 24P.
I already have a DVX100A and I'm sticking with it until Panny comes out with their own version of the HD format... Supposedly, they are going to reveal this new product in April at NAB. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it will be available that soon... Could be available in November according to some sources.
If I was definitely going to get a Sony product right now, I would opt for the ZU1 over the FX1 simply because it can shoot both in 50i and 60i. It's a little more money but for the additional option, I think it's worth it. You also get XLR audio inputs so that's another plus.
But the real buzz is on the HDX100 (it might not be called that upon its unveiling). Over at DVXUser.com they have several threads going on about it. Even the Panasonic rep Jan Crittenden has pretty much acknowledged its unveiling at NAB in April.
I think the bottom line is wait if you don't need it.
If you need something now, get either the DVX100A or the ZU1 and DV Filmmaker.
Like I said... I'm waiting.
filmy
I attended DVFilm's 24P class at the beginning of the month. One of the things Marcus van Bavel (owner of DVFilm) said is NOT to use the FX1 if you're attempting to get a quality film look with the possibility of a transfer to film in the future. He advises (if you haven't already gotten an FX1) getting the ZU1 and shooting in 50i mode and then using DV Filmmaker to process the footage to 24P.
Having said that...
I did see some FX1 60i footage processed to 24P AND transferred to 35mm film and it looked very very good. But so did the DVX100A's footage blown up to 24P.
I already have a DVX100A and I'm sticking with it until Panny comes out with their own version of the HD format... Supposedly, they are going to reveal this new product in April at NAB. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it will be available that soon... Could be available in November according to some sources.
If I was definitely going to get a Sony product right now, I would opt for the ZU1 over the FX1 simply because it can shoot both in 50i and 60i. It's a little more money but for the additional option, I think it's worth it. You also get XLR audio inputs so that's another plus.
But the real buzz is on the HDX100 (it might not be called that upon its unveiling). Over at DVXUser.com they have several threads going on about it. Even the Panasonic rep Jan Crittenden has pretty much acknowledged its unveiling at NAB in April.
I think the bottom line is wait if you don't need it.
If you need something now, get either the DVX100A or the ZU1 and DV Filmmaker.
Like I said... I'm waiting.
filmy
HDV with Dvfilm maker has produced some great results. The only downside to HD on 1/3 inch CCDs is less low light sensitivity and less dynamic range to work with (as if DV didn't have a limited enough range!).
HDV's compression is interesting. You can get some really nice quality out of 25mbps due to the fact that it's only recording 1 real frame per 15 along with only the changes in the frame (which takes less room than compressing each frame. This comes with a good number of downsides as well unfortunately). So you can definitely get some good results. I'm curious to see what Panasonic does with their HDX though. DVCproHD at 4:2:2 is an absolutely spectacular deal.
HDV's compression is interesting. You can get some really nice quality out of 25mbps due to the fact that it's only recording 1 real frame per 15 along with only the changes in the frame (which takes less room than compressing each frame. This comes with a good number of downsides as well unfortunately). So you can definitely get some good results. I'm curious to see what Panasonic does with their HDX though. DVCproHD at 4:2:2 is an absolutely spectacular deal.
not to ignore the last post, but it's way over my head, so i cannot respond to that level of detail.
filmjumper, thanks very much for your answer. it's very helpful. i think basically, i want to get a camera now. i mean. yes, i would like to wait for the new panasonic HD24p. but i just cannot wait that long (even 6 months is too long). so i guess it's between the hfx1 and DVX100. but i get confused when i see people talking about all these details of storing media and ccd's and so on. i just want to shoot some film and get it onto my PC so i can start making some *magic*. i have adobe premier and i perhaps i could get a cheap upgrade? to premier pro? if necessary. but i'm not ready to get a new 1-2K bit of software and learn it just yet.
so how easy is it to get my footage into the editor with DVX100 vs. sony? and would the 24 p that filmmaker creates using the sony 60i (albeit from that other model you mentioned, the ZU1?) be able to be edited with premier? and i assume the DVX100 is easily edited with premier?
yeah. i just can't wait until november or whenever for that damn new panasonic...i mean...i've gotta be ready for cannes '05 and all...
filmjumper, thanks very much for your answer. it's very helpful. i think basically, i want to get a camera now. i mean. yes, i would like to wait for the new panasonic HD24p. but i just cannot wait that long (even 6 months is too long). so i guess it's between the hfx1 and DVX100. but i get confused when i see people talking about all these details of storing media and ccd's and so on. i just want to shoot some film and get it onto my PC so i can start making some *magic*. i have adobe premier and i perhaps i could get a cheap upgrade? to premier pro? if necessary. but i'm not ready to get a new 1-2K bit of software and learn it just yet.
so how easy is it to get my footage into the editor with DVX100 vs. sony? and would the 24 p that filmmaker creates using the sony 60i (albeit from that other model you mentioned, the ZU1?) be able to be edited with premier? and i assume the DVX100 is easily edited with premier?
yeah. i just can't wait until november or whenever for that damn new panasonic...i mean...i've gotta be ready for cannes '05 and all...
capturing...
Well here's what I know...
I'm not familiar with premiere since I've never used it. I personally use Vegas 5, Liquid Edition Pro 6, and on occasion... Final Cut Pro 4.0. From what I understand, you'll need Final Cut Pro HD or iMovie HD to capture the footage with a mac... To capture with Vegas, you'll need Cineform HD (I understand Cineform HD also works with Premiere Pro). Not too hard if you have the right software/plugins.
With the DVX, just capture with any of the above software... No problems.
With the HD footage, you'll need to convert it to 24p. I know of several programs that can do this but I like DV Filmmaker.
So... You have to choose between the DVX and the ZU1. I personally would go with the DVX. It's going to definitely keep you going at less of a cost i.e., the software and the camera. I think the DVX will be easier to sell and lose money on than the ZU1 once a new Panasonic comes out and you want to upgrade.
And, if you do end up going to film, you won't be disappointed with the DVX.
filmy
coldbacon said:not to ignore the last post, but it's way over my head, so i cannot respond to that level of detail.
filmjumper, thanks very much for your answer. it's very helpful. i think basically, i want to get a camera now. i mean. yes, i would like to wait for the new panasonic HD24p. but i just cannot wait that long (even 6 months is too long). so i guess it's between the hfx1 and DVX100. but i get confused when i see people talking about all these details of storing media and ccd's and so on. i just want to shoot some film and get it onto my PC so i can start making some *magic*. i have adobe premier and i perhaps i could get a cheap upgrade? to premier pro? if necessary. but i'm not ready to get a new 1-2K bit of software and learn it just yet.
so how easy is it to get my footage into the editor with DVX100 vs. sony? and would the 24 p that filmmaker creates using the sony 60i (albeit from that other model you mentioned, the ZU1?) be able to be edited with premier? and i assume the DVX100 is easily edited with premier?
yeah. i just can't wait until november or whenever for that damn new panasonic...i mean...i've gotta be ready for cannes '05 and all...
Well here's what I know...
I'm not familiar with premiere since I've never used it. I personally use Vegas 5, Liquid Edition Pro 6, and on occasion... Final Cut Pro 4.0. From what I understand, you'll need Final Cut Pro HD or iMovie HD to capture the footage with a mac... To capture with Vegas, you'll need Cineform HD (I understand Cineform HD also works with Premiere Pro). Not too hard if you have the right software/plugins.
With the DVX, just capture with any of the above software... No problems.
With the HD footage, you'll need to convert it to 24p. I know of several programs that can do this but I like DV Filmmaker.
So... You have to choose between the DVX and the ZU1. I personally would go with the DVX. It's going to definitely keep you going at less of a cost i.e., the software and the camera. I think the DVX will be easier to sell and lose money on than the ZU1 once a new Panasonic comes out and you want to upgrade.
And, if you do end up going to film, you won't be disappointed with the DVX.
filmy
thanks very much for all your helps,
now i still, after all this and other discussing/reading, have not been able to decide! i still need to try to get with someone around here and actually see sample footage on a monitor or possibly even video projector?! at least a monitor or something. eh.
>To capture with Vegas, you'll need Cineform HD (I understand Cineform HD also works with Premiere Pro).
yes, well, i was under the impression i would just shoot in 60i ? and then use dvdilmmaker's $100 program to convert that footage to 24 p and then the NLE (like adobe pro) could edit it. is there additional hardware/software needed to get the footage from the compressed mini-DV format as burned by the camera itself onto the computer so that the dvfilm program can convert it to 24 p for that step? i thought it was just that 1 conversion step and then directly into the NLE?
my second question is if the HFX1 is like $3500 and the ZU1 is like $5000 ? do i REALLY have to have the ZU1 over the HFX1? you don't think the HFX1 is good enough anymore? what is the problem? not enough features? not enough capacity for expansion mics/lenses? other add-ons?
or is it more fundamental like the picture quality isn't as good or something huge?
you see, in theory, i do get the idea of buying the DVX100 now for fun/practice and to go for another 1 yr and then buying a better new HDV such as from panasonic when it comes out, etc. BUT the problem with that is that i kind of might get attached to the camera i buy now and used to it and shooting with it. it's a learning curve. and perhaps in one year i would rather just be proficient with a sony HDV (albeit 1st generation and not the end-all HDV cam) and making films which i can stand to look at. now i realize everyone says the DVX100 makes nice picture, but i've heard testimonials from people i trust and seen some screen caps (i realize it's just screen caps) in which there is no comparison. also, i do plan to do a lot of sketch comedy and stuff with this, so in those circs, filmic 24 p may not be as valuable as just having a damn high res image. so those are the where i'm coming froms.
1001 thanks for everyone's forthcoming advice.
best
w
www.coldbacon.com/movies.html
now i still, after all this and other discussing/reading, have not been able to decide! i still need to try to get with someone around here and actually see sample footage on a monitor or possibly even video projector?! at least a monitor or something. eh.
>To capture with Vegas, you'll need Cineform HD (I understand Cineform HD also works with Premiere Pro).
yes, well, i was under the impression i would just shoot in 60i ? and then use dvdilmmaker's $100 program to convert that footage to 24 p and then the NLE (like adobe pro) could edit it. is there additional hardware/software needed to get the footage from the compressed mini-DV format as burned by the camera itself onto the computer so that the dvfilm program can convert it to 24 p for that step? i thought it was just that 1 conversion step and then directly into the NLE?
my second question is if the HFX1 is like $3500 and the ZU1 is like $5000 ? do i REALLY have to have the ZU1 over the HFX1? you don't think the HFX1 is good enough anymore? what is the problem? not enough features? not enough capacity for expansion mics/lenses? other add-ons?
or is it more fundamental like the picture quality isn't as good or something huge?
you see, in theory, i do get the idea of buying the DVX100 now for fun/practice and to go for another 1 yr and then buying a better new HDV such as from panasonic when it comes out, etc. BUT the problem with that is that i kind of might get attached to the camera i buy now and used to it and shooting with it. it's a learning curve. and perhaps in one year i would rather just be proficient with a sony HDV (albeit 1st generation and not the end-all HDV cam) and making films which i can stand to look at. now i realize everyone says the DVX100 makes nice picture, but i've heard testimonials from people i trust and seen some screen caps (i realize it's just screen caps) in which there is no comparison. also, i do plan to do a lot of sketch comedy and stuff with this, so in those circs, filmic 24 p may not be as valuable as just having a damn high res image. so those are the where i'm coming froms.
1001 thanks for everyone's forthcoming advice.
best
w
www.coldbacon.com/movies.html
Do you absolutely need a camera now or can you wait? Waiting until after NAB might be a good idea because I suspect that several companies will announce some very interesting new cameras. I suspect you will have a lot more choices if you can wait a few months.
About screen caps: It's hard to judge quality from screen caps. So much depends on the quality of the post process, and more importantly the DP shooting the material. If it is at all possible, do try to get a hands on comparison. It's really the only way to make the choice that's best for you.
The FX1 doesn't have some of the nicer pro features that the Z1 has. For instance, it doesn't have XLR inputs which can be problematic if you want to record good audio into the camera with an external mic. I can't remember what else was different but that was the main one in my mind. Is that worth the extra cash? Only you can tell us
.
Regarding post production: You will need something like cineform. It's basically a codec that allows you to edit the HDV footage in real time. It's not really practical (and in many cases impossible) to do so without this plugin. The plugin is rather expensive though. I think it costs roughly 500 USD (not too bad but certainly not cheap either).
What NLE are you planning on using? Some can handle HDV footage natively now and some cannot.
About screen caps: It's hard to judge quality from screen caps. So much depends on the quality of the post process, and more importantly the DP shooting the material. If it is at all possible, do try to get a hands on comparison. It's really the only way to make the choice that's best for you.
The FX1 doesn't have some of the nicer pro features that the Z1 has. For instance, it doesn't have XLR inputs which can be problematic if you want to record good audio into the camera with an external mic. I can't remember what else was different but that was the main one in my mind. Is that worth the extra cash? Only you can tell us
.Regarding post production: You will need something like cineform. It's basically a codec that allows you to edit the HDV footage in real time. It's not really practical (and in many cases impossible) to do so without this plugin. The plugin is rather expensive though. I think it costs roughly 500 USD (not too bad but certainly not cheap either).
What NLE are you planning on using? Some can handle HDV footage natively now and some cannot.
FX1 questions...
From my understanding, to be able to capture the footage from either an FX1 OR a ZU1 you can't just use Premiere Pro or Vegas... You still need an HD plugin. You need this just to capture. Then you would use DV Filmmaker but all you've done is converted your footage to 24p HDV so you still need a plugin to edit on the timeline unless you downconvert and why would you do that?
Like Shaw pointed out... The FX1 doesn't give you dual XLR inputs but even more important is that it doesn't shoot at 50i. If you want a smooth conversion to 24p and want it to look as much like film as possible, then go for the ZU1 since it does have the XLR inputs as well as 50i shooting capability.
As I pointed out before... The reason I would either wait or buy the DVX is because much better HD products are not too far down the line. Not only that, but waiting would allow companies to create easier workflow solutions. Remember, your FX1 or ZU1 footage is still going to look like video until you do a conversion. One of the problems people have shared with me about the conversion is consistency. What might look outstanding in 50i or 60i may not necessarily look that good after 24p conversion. There are of course, precautions you can take but lets face it... You won't really know until you do it. I would really hate to do a lot of work only to find out the footage conversion wasn't up to snuff...
filmy
coldbacon said:thanks very much for all your helps,
now i still, after all this and other discussing/reading, have not been able to decide! i still need to try to get with someone around here and actually see sample footage on a monitor or possibly even video projector?! at least a monitor or something. eh.
>To capture with Vegas, you'll need Cineform HD (I understand Cineform HD also works with Premiere Pro).
yes, well, i was under the impression i would just shoot in 60i ? and then use dvdilmmaker's $100 program to convert that footage to 24 p and then the NLE (like adobe pro) could edit it. is there additional hardware/software needed to get the footage from the compressed mini-DV format as burned by the camera itself onto the computer so that the dvfilm program can convert it to 24 p for that step? i thought it was just that 1 conversion step and then directly into the NLE?
my second question is if the HFX1 is like $3500 and the ZU1 is like $5000 ? do i REALLY have to have the ZU1 over the HFX1? you don't think the HFX1 is good enough anymore? what is the problem? not enough features? not enough capacity for expansion mics/lenses? other add-ons?
or is it more fundamental like the picture quality isn't as good or something huge?
you see, in theory, i do get the idea of buying the DVX100 now for fun/practice and to go for another 1 yr and then buying a better new HDV such as from panasonic when it comes out, etc. BUT the problem with that is that i kind of might get attached to the camera i buy now and used to it and shooting with it. it's a learning curve. and perhaps in one year i would rather just be proficient with a sony HDV (albeit 1st generation and not the end-all HDV cam) and making films which i can stand to look at. now i realize everyone says the DVX100 makes nice picture, but i've heard testimonials from people i trust and seen some screen caps (i realize it's just screen caps) in which there is no comparison. also, i do plan to do a lot of sketch comedy and stuff with this, so in those circs, filmic 24 p may not be as valuable as just having a damn high res image. so those are the where i'm coming froms.
1001 thanks for everyone's forthcoming advice.
best
w
www.coldbacon.com/movies.html
From my understanding, to be able to capture the footage from either an FX1 OR a ZU1 you can't just use Premiere Pro or Vegas... You still need an HD plugin. You need this just to capture. Then you would use DV Filmmaker but all you've done is converted your footage to 24p HDV so you still need a plugin to edit on the timeline unless you downconvert and why would you do that?
Like Shaw pointed out... The FX1 doesn't give you dual XLR inputs but even more important is that it doesn't shoot at 50i. If you want a smooth conversion to 24p and want it to look as much like film as possible, then go for the ZU1 since it does have the XLR inputs as well as 50i shooting capability.
As I pointed out before... The reason I would either wait or buy the DVX is because much better HD products are not too far down the line. Not only that, but waiting would allow companies to create easier workflow solutions. Remember, your FX1 or ZU1 footage is still going to look like video until you do a conversion. One of the problems people have shared with me about the conversion is consistency. What might look outstanding in 50i or 60i may not necessarily look that good after 24p conversion. There are of course, precautions you can take but lets face it... You won't really know until you do it. I would really hate to do a lot of work only to find out the footage conversion wasn't up to snuff...
filmy
Last edited by a moderator:
hey, thanks so much for your thoughtful explanations. okay, so now i think i've finally made my decision. i am tentatively going to get the DVX100a. why? because i really want to get started soon, and so waiting for the next generation HD's is not an option. secondly, i DO need external audio options, and so that alone would force me to buy the ZU1. and like, hey, that's 5000+ or something. okay, so then that leaves us having to get an additional $500 plug-in and $100 converter program. and finally, there is the nightmarish possibility that i could have technical problems converting and being happy with it and just troubleshooting all that stuff. the resulting headaches would stifle my creativity. thus, considering most of my stuff is ultimately just going to be shown on DVD rather than real theatre film, i can be satisfied with the DVX100 image quality. so all's that's left now is to make a perfunctory trip to some local rental place or dealer and physically handle the camera. not because it will change my decision, but just because i have several friends who will scold me for buying sight unseen. i already have premier 6.5 so instead of buying a brand new NLE for tons of $, i'll first try the upgraded adobe prempro for just $200, and at least get started. So my next big decizsh will just be what audio mic to use on the hotshoe! i just love saying hotshoe. but i don't have to make that decizsh immediately.
once again, thanks for everybody's help.
here's me at 2 am last night set to music. www.coldbacon.com/flash/paulboerner.html
best
~w~
once again, thanks for everybody's help.
here's me at 2 am last night set to music. www.coldbacon.com/flash/paulboerner.html
best
~w~
Help! I'm a Newbie!
Hi all.
I just read all the current discussions between DVX, ZU1, and FX1. I am a budding filmmaker (I guess we all are), but here's my questions: When is Panasonic really going to unveil its new HD camera? It is sometime in 2005?
Excuse me for sounding naive but what's the difference between shooting in 50i and 60i? I'm not a techy, so what does it even mean? 24p conversion, NLE, what's that?
All I want to be able to have a camera that would have a film-like feature capabilities, compatible with either any editing software, and plug-ins.
What is the best camera that would do that?
As far waiting for Panasonic's HD, I can wait but what big difference will it have against the DVX100A?
How does one transfer tape to film?
I guess I really need a crash course in this whole camera and editing stuff.
My screenplay is near completion and I am looking into actually producing and shooting it in the Philippines. I just got a bad news that film stocks and camera rentals (16mm and 35mm) costs an arm and a leg! So now, I am thinking of getting my own camera that would shoot like a film camera.
HELP PLEASE, ANYONE!
Hi all.
I just read all the current discussions between DVX, ZU1, and FX1. I am a budding filmmaker (I guess we all are), but here's my questions: When is Panasonic really going to unveil its new HD camera? It is sometime in 2005?
Excuse me for sounding naive but what's the difference between shooting in 50i and 60i? I'm not a techy, so what does it even mean? 24p conversion, NLE, what's that?
All I want to be able to have a camera that would have a film-like feature capabilities, compatible with either any editing software, and plug-ins.
What is the best camera that would do that?
As far waiting for Panasonic's HD, I can wait but what big difference will it have against the DVX100A?
How does one transfer tape to film?
I guess I really need a crash course in this whole camera and editing stuff.
My screenplay is near completion and I am looking into actually producing and shooting it in the Philippines. I just got a bad news that film stocks and camera rentals (16mm and 35mm) costs an arm and a leg! So now, I am thinking of getting my own camera that would shoot like a film camera.
HELP PLEASE, ANYONE!
Hey
50i and 60i are frame rates. Interlaced footage is captured and displayed in "half frames" or fields consisting of alternating even and odd fields. 50i is the PAL standard (Europe and others) while 60i is the NTSC standard (USA, JAPAN etc).
24p conversion is a term used to describe turning footage shot at 50i or 60i into 24 full frames. This requires combining fields and throwing some out etc.
NLE stands for non linear editor. Basically, it's a word for editing software.
If you want the easiest method to aquire a film look the DVX may be best for you. Interlaced high definition, while looking goodf, requires a bit more effort and time not to mention technical knowledge. This is assuming you live in an NTSC territory. If you live in PAL terrirtory then the HDV cameras will do everything you need in camera.
The new panasonic will have several key differences.
1) It will record to P2 media. This eleminates the need for tape (though the cards are expensive)
2) It records DVC50 which has twice as muchcolor information as normal video
3) It will record high definition as well (you can choose between normal video, DVC50, and DVCproHD)
It will be significantly more expensive than the DVX though. Sort of like the relationship between the DVC30 and the DVX.
How much do you have to spend and what is your intended display medium?
50i and 60i are frame rates. Interlaced footage is captured and displayed in "half frames" or fields consisting of alternating even and odd fields. 50i is the PAL standard (Europe and others) while 60i is the NTSC standard (USA, JAPAN etc).
24p conversion is a term used to describe turning footage shot at 50i or 60i into 24 full frames. This requires combining fields and throwing some out etc.
NLE stands for non linear editor. Basically, it's a word for editing software.
If you want the easiest method to aquire a film look the DVX may be best for you. Interlaced high definition, while looking goodf, requires a bit more effort and time not to mention technical knowledge. This is assuming you live in an NTSC territory. If you live in PAL terrirtory then the HDV cameras will do everything you need in camera.
The new panasonic will have several key differences.
1) It will record to P2 media. This eleminates the need for tape (though the cards are expensive)
2) It records DVC50 which has twice as muchcolor information as normal video
3) It will record high definition as well (you can choose between normal video, DVC50, and DVCproHD)
It will be significantly more expensive than the DVX though. Sort of like the relationship between the DVC30 and the DVX.
How much do you have to spend and what is your intended display medium?
ELLENTIGER said:
I think it is supposed to be at the end of 2005 but that will be announced at NAB.
50i = 25fps @ 2 interlaced fields per second, hence 50i. This is PAL framerate, as in what most of Europe watches.
60i = 30fps or 29.97fps @ 2 interlaced fields per second, hence 60. This is NTSC as in what most of North America watches.
24p = 24 progressive fps. Instead of interlaced fields, it has one frame of the full picture.
Interlaced fields are essentially half of the lines of resolution in one field (even), and then the other half in the next field (odd). This started with Television, because this is the easiest way to reduce the badwidth required to broadcast by half - simply scan from top to bottom the even field, then do the same on the next field. Unfortunately, this means that on any other medium than a television, where movement occurs, there will be a difference between odd fields and even fields which is visible, creating a very ugly "interlaced" effect. To counter this, one can "deinterlace" the image which can be fairly good but you always will lose at least some resolution in this, especially in the area in motion.
Progressive scan fixes this. It scans both fields, from line 1 to line 525 from top to bottom, creating no interlacing effect. There is 24p and 30p, meaning 24 progressive fps, or 30 progressive fps.
Coincidentally, film is also 24p (basically). So this means that the end frame rate will be very similar to film.
24p conversion from 30i or 60i (they're the same thing) is technically very complicated, requiring many procedures to take place such as elimination of frames and combining of others. That doesn't mean it can't be done, I've done it, and the end product is relatively nice.
24p conversion from 50i is very much more simple. The software only has to try to take 1 frame out of 25, and technically creates a nicer picture with less loss than the previous method.
Either can be done with 24pfilmmaker or even with Virtualdub or Vegas or Premiere to a lesser extent.
NLE = Non Linear Editor. Premiere, Vegas, Avid, Windows Movie Maker, Final Cut Pro... these and almost all others are non linear editors.
You should be more focused on learning the basics/fundamentals of videography and filmmaking before making an expensive purchase and trying to make an epic "film-like" movie. You should also be aware that Mini-DV movies are (although most here are not willing to accept it) NOT going to ever be film, and are nor anywhere close to as valuable of an acquisition medium as film or high definition. So if your intent is to buy this camera, make an epic, have it find theatrical distribution, and become famous, I'm sorry to tell you DV is about akin to winning the Daytona500 with a showroom Dodge. HDV is better of a solution, but it is not without its faults, either, namely the MPEG-2 compression codec used during acquisition and storage which in circumstances with high motion (water splash, person running right in front of the camera) produces HEAVY artifacts.
The biggest drawback, despite all of the wonderful features of all of the DV cameras, is the resolution. While acceptable for DVD, it has to be shot so well that only very seasoned pros can pull it off - for the big screen. And even then there is absolutely no competition for well shot HD which is about equal to well shot super 16mm which is no match for well shot 35mm. To give you a comparison, 720x480 vs. 1920x1080 is the difference in resolution between DV and High Definition or Super 16mm. That is a huge difference, especially at 50' in a theater.
You might hear people tell tales of 28 Days Later, a movie made entirely on DV for theatrical which looked "pretty good". What they won't tell you is that 28 days later spent TONS of money in post production to look that good, as do most good looking DV movies - to some extent.
You should really read this article by SonnyBoo: Link
So as long as you keep yourself in check, make DV movies you aren't planning to become Steven Spielberg with, but that you can experiment very highly with and possibly make a movie good enough to win an award or two at festivals and sell some DVD's, then you should be in the right frame of mind.
The end all thing is that theatrical distributors want a product they can sell NOW. That's why 35mm features are still the majority of features out there. High Def and s16 movies to a much smaller extent. It would have to be revolutionary to be picked up if it is DV.
Right now the best DV Cameras for DV filmmakers are the Panasonic DVX100a and the Canon XL2.
The best HDV Camera is the Z1, followed by the FX1. The JVC models that are out there right now are not worth your time.
The best HD camera is arguable at this point. They are so expensive that it depends what you need. Viper, CineAlta, Varicam, all produce great pictures, the Viper probably the nicest of the lot, but again extremely expensive.
With film, I suggest you either start with super 8mm or else forget it. You have a lot to learn before using a film camera.
It will be the lowest end of High Definition. similar to the VariCam. It is technically much smaller resolution that the FX1 and Z1, but it should have none of the problems associated with the FX1 and Z1 such as the artifacts and lower color sampling. It should be a nicer picture, just not as much overall resolution as the FX1 or Z1.
The soon-to-be-announced JVC camera is supposed to be the same resolution as that, But HDV, But also 24p.
Through a laser or CRT recorder. This is around $160-$250 US per minute of screen time. That makes it unfeasable for just about every DV production BUT the bigger budgeted ones. It makes it so expensive that there is just about no reason to not originate on film, if you plan to finish on it.
Read some books, read this website Link, read everything you can get your hands on. Get a cheap camcorder and shoot, shoot, shoot, learn, learn, learn.
I am making a Camera FAQ which I will be adding all of this info to and will post it soon enough. You might learn some things from that.
Again, it is my opinion, but you will be making the mistake of your life if you have a script and a budget and no experience making any type of cinema. If you don't know how to frame shots, how to tell a story as a director, how to direct actors, how to make contracts, releases, marketing as a producer, edit with a NLE, you will, in all seriousness, fail miserably. ESPECIALLY if you try to shoot film. And even if you do have a DP with you on a film set, if you've never directed before, you will be pissing off everyone around you. Do you know what a shot list is? What a Shooting script is? What a slate is? If not, you need to do some serious studying before jumping into the deep end of the pool.