Feeling paranoid?

My wife and I, and a number of our creative friends, subscribe to the notion that once you have come up with a concept - even if it's just in your mind and you have told no one about it - it's out there in the "idea-sphere" floating around where anyone can pick it up.

I'm not one for woo but I do think there's something to this - only because concepts don't spring forth in a vacuum, no matter how original they seem to the person who came up with them.

Taking the Pripyat example - a quick read over the wikipedia entry shows that around 2005 someone started running guided tours there. Under the 'cultural references' section there are a variety of documentaries, stories, songs, video games, and movies that have used the setting in some way - most of which came about in the last 6-8 years, culminating in a full movie with mainstream distribution based entirely in the city being released this year.

So I imagine it went something like this: after 10-15 years the radiation had dropped to a relatively safe level. The first people to go there were urban-explorer types who were willing to take a risk that the radiation might still be dangerous. They post photos on line of this cool abandoned city, and the photos get spread around virally (boing boing, the world's most popular blog, has featured several of these sets of photos over the past 8 years or so). After a few years it's clear it's relatively safe, and someone who saw some of those photos decides to start a tour business. Now people are going on a regular basis and a steady stream of photos, videos, and stories are being shared online. Suddenly, tens or hundreds of thousands of people around the world who might have never even heard of Pripyat are all becoming aware of it around the same time - it's entered the 'idea-sphere'. Someone developing a video game needs a cool setting and remembers hearing about this place. Someone in a band writes a song about it. Documentary filmmakers seek it out as a subject, and narrative filmmakers use it as an element of their stories. Everyone doing this thinks it's a unique creative idea - except that at the same time thousands of people around the world are all having unique creative ideas sprung from the same seed. Some are more alike than others, most will never come to fruition, but inevitably a few will emerge over time that will seem very similar to one another.

So to me, that's the idea-sphere - not that something actually escapes your consciousness and is floating around to be picked up by others, but that things born in our consciousness tend to come from common points of reference that many people have picked up simultaneously, often even unconsciously.

I think this happens far more often now with the broad availability of the internet than it did in the past. It's common for unique and interesting subjects to go viral online - while still not crossing directly into the mainstream. When this happens it's like thousands of seeds being planted, and it's inevitable that within a few years you'll see similar trees grow from those seeds.
 
I think you're onto something, ItDonnedOnMe and Alcove.

I guess I missed it above...what's you're great idea again, Cracker?

=P

Just teasing.

So are we saying that it's not enough protection to copyright a screenplay before showing it? But I suppose, Cracker, that you're also saying that you want to share it before going to the trouble and expense of copyrighting it?

And on that subject, when you copyright your script and show it, say, on I.T, and you then get feedback and guidance, you then make changes...can you re-copyright the same script? How does that work? If you copyrighted a script called Gone with the Gust, and you get advice on it which leads you to rewrite it, then do you copyright the rewrite with a different title like Gone with the Gust II?

Like Jsthompson79 asked, I'm wondering if the Priypat trailer people had a copyrighted script behind that trailer. But, unless the Chernobyl Diaries people actually stole the Priypat people's actual material, what does it really matter? Ain't them the breaks? I guess I'm thinking that the lesson is that perhaps the Priypat trailer folks should have abstained from showing their trailer until their feature was, if not in the can, at least in production.

I've kicked around story ideas for years that I never shared online or with anyone whom I might suspect to make something of them filmwise or otherwise etc...ideas that I thought so out there that I could hardly imagine anyone getting to them first. And yet, somehow (heheh) they turned up. It hurts. Really. I know this from personal experience. =D

It's deflating, humbling...dispiriting.

Something that I think I.T.ers have given me as a visitor, something that I've taken to heart, something that any number of I.T.ers have said is that ideas are more or less a dime a dozen. It's how you use them. It's how you put your own slant on the stories which have already been told.

So, I'm less bitter, and more philosophical about it now.

I think Kholi probably has it right (as usual). =) If this idea is so unique and awesome as you think it is, it's probably wise to be very selective about whom you share it with, if simply copyrighting the screenplay isn't enough. A non-disclosure contract might even be appropriate. Act. Do. Get 'er done before someone else does.

All the same. If you have the idea, there's a decent chance someone else, somewhere, does too anyway. You might take all the precautions you can, but some version of your film might get produced and distributed before yours is.

You know what? At this point in my life, I don't think that's such a bad thing. Put your own spin on it. Love it. Do it. Get 'er done before someone else does.

But I don't say that to be negative. Hey, maybe we're all human after all. That's all. We get the same, similar ideas. That's just the facts of life. But look at it this way, if we didn't, how would we relate to one another? The alternative could be an even more lonely state of affairs.

Not specific to filmmaking or this thread's question, but this might be of interest.

Nature recently broadcast a show about Chernobyl

So, I don't know what you should do, Cracker. And anyway, I'm no one to give advice. But, I will say that, despite what I've written above, I suppose it's a shame not to share our ideas with others. So, I guess I don't really have a clue. =)

Edited: for language, blabbering on.
 
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Relevant:

http://www.plotpatents.com/

We probably had a thread on that already, don't know what the status of their attempt at patents for plots happens to be, but there you go.

Given that we can have things like Dante's Peak/Volcano or Armageddon/Deep Impact seeing concurrent release, well, er, not really sure what that says actually.

:lol:
 
Well, I saw "Chernobyl Diaries". I actually kind of enjoyed it. It's not extremely original, but I think it had some nice moments of suspense.

Anyway, this conversation kind of digressed, I think. On one hand, yes many of you have made the very valid point that the reason two (or more) people might independently come up with basically the same idea for a movie is because we share a common culture, and thus our imaginations all come from a very similar frame of reference. Ideas aren't made in a vacuum. Yes, that is correct.

However, on the practical side, that doesn't really have to do with the issue of a filmmaker wanting to project their ideas.

Okay, let me give you a real-life example. One of the movies I want to make is a bio-pic. The person I want to make a bio-pic about led a REALLY interesting life. And the life that they led was in the middle of some REALLY interesting historical events that have been largely overlooked. I'd be willing to bet that nobody reading this has ever heard of the guy. If ever there is to be a bio-pic about him, there can really only be one. So until I'm in a position to actually get this movie made, I won't share it with anyone I don't know, because I don't want Matt Damon to go and get any bright ideas.

Just because someone else might possibly get the same idea, that doesn't mean that anyone actually has, and I don't want to help them out by just tossing it about all over the place. I know H44 shares my sentiment; it's not just me and him, is it?
 
No, I agree that if you've got a good idea that you feel is unique, there's some value in keeping it close - assuming you have realistic expectations of actually doing something with it in the long run.

My point is more that even if you do that you shouldn't be surprised if someone else comes out with something similar first - and that the fact that it's similar isn't necessarily evidence that it was stolen.

http://www.plotpatents.com/

We probably had a thread on that already, don't know what the status of their attempt at patents for plots happens to be, but there you go.

Man, what a terrible idea. Plot patents would have the same effect on filmmaking that software patents have on the tech world. You'd have companies that specialized in either patenting every plot point they could come up with or acquiring them from others, and then doing nothing but suing every successful film for violating those patents. Studios would have to acquire portfolios of plot patents to provide defense against other patents litigation by other studios, and every new screenplay would have to be combed over by a team of lawyers for approval before it could be filmed. Independents who don't have the resources to defend their plot in court would be screwed the most - ignored until their film actually starts being successful, then the vultures would descend to pick them clean of any profits the film made, and investors would become wary of putting money into projects in the first place that haven't been already cleared by a legal team.
 
I can totally relate to this. I guess the most important thing is to copyright the idea with Library of Congress and WGA before you start talking to people about it. Another common thing is to have them sign a non-disclosure agreement before you send them your script. :D
 
I can totally relate to this. I guess the most important thing is to copyright the idea with Library of Congress and WGA before you start talking to people about it. Another common thing is to have them sign a non-disclosure agreement before you send them your script. :D

There are two problems with this, though. First, you can't copyright an idea. If I wanted to, I could go out, right now, and make a movie about a military man who is serving in a far-off alien land, and when he falls in love with one of the natives, he adopts their ways, becomes one of them, and eventually helps to fight against the military he used to be part of. And James Cameron could do nothing about it. Just like Kevin Costner could do nothing about Avatar. Or Pocahantas. As long as my script is mine own writing, I can make that movie.

Also, if you're trying to sell a script (or get funding), a trusted source says that a non-disclosure agreement is a really bad idea.

ItDonnedOnMe, I hear ya, and I agree with you. :)
 
Also, if you're trying to sell a script (or get funding), a trusted source says that a non-disclosure agreement is a really bad idea.
Well, you learn something new everyday.

Based upon that (somewhat cryptic) remark I made a cursory search around the block, coming up mostly with nil, I did find this related article which isn't authoritative, but does support a suggestion that a NDA isn't the be all end all.
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/JasPurewal/20100513/87319/The_Problem_With_Non_Disclosure_Agreements.php

Unfortunately, it also doesn't provide much of an alternative; mostly just "Go see your lawyer", AKA a general industry PSA commercial. :lol:



Someone wanna gimme the crib notes on this?
http://www.iprcommission.org/papers/pdfs/final_report/ciprfullfinal.pdf


More goofy sh!t.
41590_115287555188723_1750_q.jpg

http://www.mpaa.org/contentprotection/types-of-content-theft
This suggests worrying about anything in the development stage pales in comparison to the concerns about the developed stage products.
 
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Okay, so I'm continuing to think of your in-process protection of intellectual property rights - as opposed to the protection of a finished product (infinitely more defensible it appears) - and I can't help but think about all these other filmmaker schmucks on kickstarter and indiegogo lumping out their jewels and exposing themselves to total project concept rip off.
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/film & video/successful?ref=more

It's kinda like showing a trailer for your film.
How do you craft a trailer that both 'suggests' the theme of your film without bluntly exposing it all?


FWIW, I'm still stuck on the 'legal expense for defending an illegal disclosure' part from the article in my previous post.
 
Easiest thing in the world. :D

:lol:

Ray, I don't want to give away his entire book, though I am going to finally post my review of it soon. Anyway, Nick's opinion on NDAs is coming from both the perspective of the person trying to get funding, to now being the person who can provide the funding. In a nutshell, the reason he so adamantly advises against using them is that they simply scare people off. Producers get SO MANY scripts thrown at them that they're just way more likely to even look at the ones that don't come attached with the possibility of litigation. Even if they have absolutely no desire to steal your idea, they might worry that you could be a nut-job who thinks that they stole your idea, and they just don't even want to think about the possible headache of defending themselves in court. In Nick's opinion (and it sounds very reasonable to me), NDAs are for the established, big-name screenwriters only; us little guys kinda gotta just cross our fingers and trust the world.

As to the question of giving away your brilliant idea during crowdfunding, I think it's kinda just necessary. If your crowdfunding campaign falls short, well hey, I guess you're not making the movie anyway. If it's successful, then presumably you'll be shooting it soon. Even if someone else wants to steal your idea, I think the odds are very slim, no matter who they are, that they could get a script written, get funding, and get through preproduction before you. You've got a huge head-start at that point.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QboGT3v7c5A


A couple most excellent indie filmmaker versions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7h4_GvP5Nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLv9--uefnY&feature=related
 
:lol:

A Ray, I don't want to give away his entire book, though I am going to finally post my review of it soon. B Anyway, Nick's opinion on NDAs is coming from both the perspective of the person trying to get funding, to now being the person who can provide the funding... In Nick's opinion (and it sounds very reasonable to me), NDAs are for the established, big-name screenwriters only; us little guys kinda gotta just cross our fingers and trust the world.

C As to the question of giving away your brilliant idea during crowdfunding, I think it's kinda just necessary...
A Understood (and supported, if not outright encouraged!)

B Makes perfect sense: Largely wieners and fruitcakes brandish NDAs. Small taters need not concern ourselves.

C And "Yep", that's kinda what I was thinking too.


Thank you! ;)
 
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Man, what a terrible idea. Plot patents would have the same effect on filmmaking that software patents have on the tech world. You'd have companies that specialized in either patenting every plot point they could come up with or acquiring them from others, and then doing nothing but suing every successful film for violating those patents. Studios would have to acquire portfolios of plot patents to provide defense against other patents litigation by other studios, and every new screenplay would have to be combed over by a team of lawyers for approval before it could be filmed. Independents who don't have the resources to defend their plot in court would be screwed the most - ignored until their film actually starts being successful, then the vultures would descend to pick them clean of any profits the film made, and investors would become wary of putting money into projects in the first place that haven't been already cleared by a legal team.

Totally agree. If I had a "hitting the nail on the head" graphic handy I would use it.

I wanted to place the link in this discussion in the event that folks were not aware that this movement was already underway.

I liken it to GMO patents and what happens to small farmers when some seed flies off of a truck and lands in their fields unbeknownst to the small farmer. Once in place GMO plants are so resistant to anything and everything that they take over. Next thing you know Monsanto's army of lawyers is destroying the local farmers life.
 
My wife and I, and a number of our creative friends, subscribe to the notion that once you have come up with a concept - even if it's just in your mind and you have told no one about it - it's out there in the "idea-sphere" floating around where anyone can pick it up.

I think in Hollywood they call it "Parallel development". And yeah, the conventional wisdom is it's usually not idea theft.
Here's my anecdote. I had an amazing writing partner for a while, We were outlining a story together. She was actually a hemisphere away when this happened. Anyway, I get this great idea for the story, major plot development, it's perfect. I pick up my cell phone to text her the breakthrough, all of sudden CHIRP! incoming text. It's my writing partner raving about this new angle for the story she just came up with. Yep, it was exactly the same idea I had.
True story.
 
My wife and I, and a number of our creative friends, subscribe to the notion that once you have come up with a concept - even if it's just in your mind and you have told no one about it - it's out there in the "idea-sphere" floating around where anyone can pick it up.

i love this concept.
 
I do stand up. That crap happens all the time. Nothing I hate more than seeing someone else do my material.
 
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