DSLR or Camcorder

AYYY. Putting everything in the works right now for a short film. Was hoping to get some advice on what route I should go as far as a camera. I had talked with a specialist before and he told me to go with the t5i if I wanted to film with a DSLR. The only other thing that has caught my eye is the Canon XL1 MiniDV. Now that's definitely a lot cheaper than the t5i, but is it worth it more in quality?

Thanks!
 
The Canon XL1 is only standard definition. Although that might be fine for your needs, HD is pretty much standard now, so, to most people, the XL1 is worthless. The XLH1 is the HD version of that camera, and it's much more expensive.

Having said that, sound implementation may be a bit better on the XL1 (not 100% on that, so I'd bet that you'll probably still want an external recorder, as you would with a dSLR) and the form factor would allow easier handling than a dSLR.

If it were my money, I wouldn't even consider the XL1, just go for the t5i.
 
The XL1 is a nice camera. You're right it is only standard definition, so it obviously won't have the longevity something that captures in HD or greater would. But, I agree with Alcove.. do you REALLY need to shoot in HD?

If you're not going to have a theatrical release, standard definition is probably fine. Even if you are going to have a theatrical release, standard definition could be fine.. 28 Days Later was shot on the XL1.

There's presently a used XL1HS on ebay for about $2400 (with buy it now), and another with a buy it now price under $1k...

In fact, there are quite a few good deals to be had on used HD cameras on ebay, if you were to go that route.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Camcorders-...efinition&_dcat=11724&Type=Professional&rt=nc


And even better deals for Standard Definition:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Camcorders-...rd%20Definition&_dcat=11724&Type=Professional

Those links point to search results for used "professional" cameras in HD and SD respectively.
 
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there are quite a few good deals to be had on used HD cameras on ebay

++

@ rawfooty

Do you have access to a free camera? (iphone, galaxy) If so, use that first. You'll need to rig a thingy to get the phone on a tripod, but those top end phones do have legitimate video

If you must invest a chunk of change on a camera, make it count. T5i and ilk have decrepit video quality due to Canon refusing to give more value (and less sensor line skipping) for the money. But - if one can get a t2i, t3i, t4i for really cheap (~300), then go for it (canon refurb program...). If its going to be more, lets do professional quality; do this

Last - know that the best camera is the free camera. Ideas are paramount
 
Thank you everyone for your feedback!

In reply, HD would be preferable. I have no problem putting the money down for a T5i if XL1 only shoots standard def (this being said, I'm not willing or in the position to splurge on a blackmagic).

Also I'd lean personally to the T5i more for the sake of lens attachments, mic mount, and its quick auto focus, if no other weight was put forth to the XL1 argument.

With all this, you guys have helped very much and I believe I'm choosing the T5i. One last question, any Vixia versus T5i?
 
You're going to spend about the same on a T?i or XL1/XLH1 as you would on the Black Magic pocket camera..

The BM pocket along with one of these (which by the way is a great deal currenty) would get you decent in-camera audio acquisition too.
 
The Black Magic Pocket, the one sage linked to, is $995.

It's a micro four thirds mount, with a (almost) super 16mm sensor. If you couple the camera with a metabones speed booster (the one specific for the black magic pocket camera) not only will you get a boost of like 1.5 stops of light, but it's also a focal reducer. Which, in the simplest terms means it will behave as if the camera's sensor is a Super35mm.. which means wider angle shots, etc.

Of course there are a good deal of extra bits and bobs you'd want to acquire for it as well.. namely ND filters and a good IR cut filter, or NDIR filters. The black magic cameras are very sensitive to IR, and your image will quickly become poluted with IR radiation (haze with a red/magenta color shift) especially with higher ND filter values.

That can all be added as you go, of course, but good ND filtration is going to be pretty much necessary regardless of camera if you want shallower depth of field (one of the many reasons people go the DSLR route in the first place).

So, with the extra about $500 for the speedbooster, and probably $500 of filters, yeah realistically you're looking at close to $2k for the black magic pocket camera. Of course you _can_ go more bare bones with it, just the camera and a single lens.


With the t4i or t5i or any other t[something]i, you're going to need either some kind of audio breakout box/preamp (juiced link, beachtek, etc) or a separate audio recorder.. same with the black magic cameras. Many of the options in the ebay results I linked earlier have dual XLR inputs, and would (at least initially) eliminate that need.

Along with the other audio gear -- good mic(s), boom, etc.

Then of course there's the concerns of adequate lighting, camera support gear (tripod, shoulder mount?, jib?, dolly?).... costs add up quick when you start buying gear, that is why a lot of people still advocate renting.

There's so much more to it than how many pixels they squeeze onto the sensor of a camera, etc. If you're going to jump into gear ownership, it's best to have as complete a view as you can beforehand.. I think.

And really, there's no sense splurging on a great camera if you're going to starve it of light, and record crap audio. But, if you're going to splurge on a great camera, considering the size of the investment, you should probably either A) figure out how to make the camera pay for itself, and/or B) get the best camera you can afford that will be useful to you for several years.

B is the reason I'm buying the new black magic 4k. I absolutely don't need 4k right now. But I also don't plan on wanting to upgrade again in the next 5ish years, and I shouldn't need to. Also it's got a global shutter which is really just kind of bad ass.
 
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I would recommend the camcorder. A T5i is $850.00. You can get a new Panasonic AC7 or AC8 for around a grand on ebay. The primary downsides for these cameras is a lack of XLR inputs and fixed lenses. You can use one of these for years as you develop your skills.
 
Saw this covered in another thread - at the price, you can't really beat this.

Same exact imaging system as in any other standard issue Canon

I have one and will be using it as a B cam. Unlike the T(?)i, the EOS-M is mirrorless and only displays in liveview. So far, my only real gripe is that the menus are mostly touchscreen driven and can be a tad confusing at times. I got mine in black for $245.00 on ebay. Also consider that you will need the M-EF adapter. I have the genuine Canon part that I paid $92.00 for on ebay. I have no experience with the third party versions.
 
The industry is already shooting in 4k and even 5k, in a year or two everyone is gonna have a 4k at home, the videos in SD are gonna look like postage stamps on a 4k screen, I would really go full HD at this point :)

You're overly optimistic about the future. Not everyone has 1k at home today, why would suddenly everyone have 4k at home within a year or two?
 
In a year or two everyone is gonna have a 4k at home.

I really don't think so. I just bought a new 'regular' tv and I plan on keeping it for at least five years, hopefully more.

I can't say for sure, but I imagine there are a lot of people, maybe even millions, who couldn't give two hoots about 4K. I also imagine that some of that crowd will be made up of consumers who bought those wretched 3D tv's.
 
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