Does a short devalue a feature

sfoster

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Suppose I have a couple of great ideas for features.
What if I were to do each of them as a short first.

Yes, it will give away the awesome nature of the story lines, but does that decrease the monetary value of a feature film released at a later date?

Would most viewers ever be made aware of the spoilers to begin with? I think the average consumer tries to avoid spoilers and doesn't watch shorts anyway.

For that reason I don't think a short devalues a feature.
What do you guys think?
 
Why do you want to make them as shorts? What’s the purpose? And can these feature length stories be squeezed in to a short?

If the idea is to gain some attention to promote and/or fund the feature (think “SAW”), then you probably need to be think quite big. The assumption that “the average consumer… doesn’t watch shorts…” won’t work. You need to be making sure that everybody watches it. That would require a lot of time and effort (and probably a reasonable chunk of money).

But, in that sense, you’re already promoting your feature before you’ve even started production. If anything, that should increase profitability, not hurt it. But only if people watch it.

Coming back to “SAW”, that short film didn’t give away any of the secrets from the feature. In fact, it was just a scene from the feature film (reverse bear trap, anyone…?), with an extended opening to make it a self-contained story. Could you do something like that with your films?
 
well on the indie level it doesnt matter much. You see a lot of filmmakers do a short, get into a big festival, then use that success to then make a feature version of that short. many times it gets into the same big festival the next year.

It's one way to get a career started. At that point, very few people will have even seen your first short, but they've all seen your feature.

Recent examples:

Martha Marcy May Marlene (Sundance, Sundance)
Short Term 12 (Sundance, SXSW)
 
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It'd be a problem if the short gave away the whole story to the feature or revealed a major late-story surprise plot twist.
 
I think a great way to incorporate shorts alongside features is to use the shorts not as segments that together would create a feature but use these shorts as a way to introduce the audience to the world in which the feature would take place.
 
IMO, A short CAN devalue a feature, but it certainly does not have to.

Largely it depends upon how the three following aspects relate to one another: the planned feature, the short, and what your intentions are.

Alright, we all know shorts don't make any money (directly), they may lead to grater opportunities, but largely any potential revenue (not profit) is going to come from a feature.
If the feature is essentially a one gag/trick flick then... there's really not much you're going to have to put into a short that's going to A) have any relevance, or B) make much sense and pique interest towards the planned feature.
However, if the planned feature is chock full of interesting and unique aspects then developing a short or two that uses a single aspect of the planned feature's multiple aspects to cultivate interest or to test the waters then that should provide some benefit.
Think Alive in Joburg leading to District Nine, or even Annoying Orange leading to a half hour time slot at Cartoon Network.

The second aspect would be the short itself, or shorts.
As already stated, the short itself probably has nil chance of directly generating any revenue (not profit), but shorts do cost money to make, and it costs money to get them to be seen enough times to provoke sufficient interest in a feature length film - even the viral shorts need a little coaxing.
Now, if the feature is a one gag/trick flik then... what are you really going to put in your short that isn't going to ruin the planned feature?
The one clever twist the whole feature film depends upon... is gonna not make any sense to include or exclude from a short.
So, only make a short if you got a fairly decent arsenal of clever stuff to cram into a feature.

Finally, there's your plans, your intentions.
Do you really think you're going to make a one hit wonder that will skyrocket you to feature filmdom?
Do you really think if you make the short that overwhelming public demand will force a studio with means to throw money at you to please please FOR THE LOVE OF THE SHAREHOLDERS, WILL YOU PLEEEEEEEAAAAASE make the feature?
Do you really want to spend the time effort, energy and expense of peddling your short to enough audiences to cultivate interest in supporting the funding of a feature film?
Do you want to NOT cultivate an interest? Interesting gambit, there.



Understanding how all three of these work together as a codependent triangle should answer the question "do shorts devalue the feature?"

I myself do not.
I try to watch every teaser & trailer and read every spoiler & review, both public and critic as they both have different merits, before watching a feature length film - or not watch it.
To me if a show "is good" I'll watch it time and time again even though I already know the story and lines.
Some shows are worthy of a one-and-done viewing.
Others worth skipping.

If a feature film is good - watch it.
If it isn't - don't.
A short or teaser or review shouldn't change that perspective one iota. :)

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There's so much more going on in a feature that you couldn't possibly tell the same story as in a short. Same concept, sure, but the story would have to be markedly different.

So no, I don't think a short devalues a feature.

And, if you happen to be making one that is heavy on SFX, your short could very well lead to the feature being made (or at least optioned).
 
My understanding of the film world is none of us will ever really make more then a few dollars from anything we do, so from what I understand, there is nothing to financially devalue.
 
My understanding of the film world is none of us will ever really make more then a few dollars from anything we do, so from what I understand, there is nothing to financially devalue.

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That's not true. There are plenty of active members on this website who make their entire livelihood doing what they love. Ask them questions, and they'll give you advice. :)

Furthermore, every year there are a small handful of indie darlings who break through the glass ceiling, giving hope to all us little guys that we CAN be a breakout success.
 
I suspect if your stories can easy be made as shorts they're not really feature length stories in the first place.
Sling Blade begat Sling Blade, Peluca begat Napoleon Dynamite, Within The Woods
begat The Evil Dead, Bottle Rocket begat Bottle Rocket, Six Shooter begat In Bruges
The Dirk Diggler Story begat Boogie Nights, THX 1138 4EB begat THX 1138
District 9 begat District 9, Shoot ‘Em Up begat Shoot ‘Em Up.

I can go on. Many short films have been expanded into feature length stories.

No a short does not devalue a feature. In all the above examples and a dozen
more, the short is why there is a feature.
 
My understanding of the film world is none of us will ever really make more then a few dollars from anything we do, so from what I understand, there is nothing to financially devalue.

Getting into the industry is tough, but not impossible. I do consider myself a realistic person, sometimes even a bit cynical, but I do believe that hard work, talent, and savvy business skills can lead to getting your foot in the door and making your way into the industry :)
 
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Getting into the industry is tough, but not impossible. I do consider myself a realistic person, sometimes even a bit cynical, but I do believe that handwork, talent, and savvy business skills can lead to getting your foot in the door and making your way into the industry :)

I really want to agree with that for obvious reasons...but people keep telling me that even the best film, work ethic etc is no guarantee of success. There always seems to be this element of luck where so n so happened to read the script because so n so happened to pass it to them or some such...or the movie was being played when by luck so n so walked past, watched for a minute and saw the potential.

It seems very rare that these things happen purely by design.

And there seems to be no golden formula to make the above happen. Yes there are those that have had good success, but there are thousands that have not and that for me does not necessarily tell me that it can't be done, but rather, that the current process is not achieving the required results so we need to look at a new game plan. I and a few others are actually looking at that new game plan as we speak and nutting out a solution. But to date, under current methods of distribution and financial return, we as a group (indie film makers all over the world) are not even achieving a 10% hit rate of success.

I should not have used the word "none" in my first post. I should have used the word "few" because there are some that do get through and make a living or more.
 
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P.T. Anderson has made 2 shorts which both evolved into features. Even though they were both quite a bit different from the final product. Neill Blomkamp made a short about District 9. You can not make a short with the same story as the feature,because it won't fit,what you can do is use similar character,setting or event or just a broad idea of smth.
 
Sling Blade begat Sling Blade, Peluca begat Napoleon Dynamite, Within The Woods
begat The Evil Dead, Bottle Rocket begat Bottle Rocket, Six Shooter begat In Bruges
The Dirk Diggler Story begat Boogie Nights, THX 1138 4EB begat THX 1138
District 9 begat District 9, Shoot ‘Em Up begat Shoot ‘Em Up.

I can go on. Many short films have been expanded into feature length stories.

No a short does not devalue a feature. In all the above examples and a dozen
more, the short is why there is a feature.

Some people here feel that giving away the twist is bad idea.

Lets take two features as an example.. suppose i've got ideas for the matrix and for sixth sense.

If I were to include the 'big twists' from these stories in my shorts, do you think thats a problem?
 
And there seems to be no golden formula to make the above happen. Yes there are those that have had good success, but there are thousands that have not and that for me does not necessarily tell me that it can't be done, but rather, that the current process is not achieving the required results so we need to look at a new game plan. I and a few others are actually looking at that new game plan as we speak and nutting out a solution. But to date, under current methods of distribution and financial return, we as a group (indie film makers all over the world) are not even achieving a 10% hit rate of success.

I should not have used the word "none" in my first post. I should have used the word "few" because there are some that do get through and make a living or more.

Depends on the person. Filmmaking is a hard craft, and one wrong move can land you where you started... or worse.

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Could you expand on this "game plan" you speak of? :)
 
Well... first of all 'The Sixth Sense' had only one twist going for it.
I don't think that would make for very good short material.

'The Matrix' however had plenty of ideas to work with and would be a very good "foundation" for a short to debut with for further elaboration.
 
Well... first of all 'The Sixth Sense' had only one twist going for it.
I don't think that would make for very good short material.

'The Matrix' however had plenty of ideas to work with and would be a very good "foundation" for a short to debut with for further elaboration.

Perhaps the story about the little girl who gives him the tape could be turned into a short...
 
Depends on the person. Filmmaking is a hard craft, and one wrong move can land you where you started... or worse.

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Could you expand on this "game plan" you speak of? :)

I cannot expand on the game plan yet, yet being the operative word. We are still researching to make sure that we are not going to be leading ourselves and others on a quest for a golden egg that doesn't exist.

I do not mean to add mystery to anything about this, but obviously as with anything, doing ones homework is crucial, as is bringing others in on the conversation so that they to can give their thoughts and tell us what they see as potential hurdles. This second part is something we intend to be able to do soon (giving a better time frame is being purposely avoided here to prevent mucking people around if our preliminaries take longer then expected)

The reason I make mention of this before that stage is complete is to see who would be interested in having that conversation when the time comes. It is good after all to know who will be available for that conversation before we set a date to have it.
 
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