Distribution Plan

[trueindie]

A few months ago, I was thinking of the best way to expose good films that are made by indie filmmakers, that were made with small budgets and have no cast members of any note. I thought the best way to do that would be to start a film festival. I was looking into it and talked to three small local theatres about it. They were enthusiastic, but really didn't want to cut me a break on costs. Also, I was kind of ambivalent about how much this effort would actually help filmmakers, given the fact that there is a film festival around every corner. So I kind of put the festival idea on the back burner.

I was thinking about it again, and started thinking of actually trying to distribute such films to the local theaters, for money. I talked to the same three local theaters. They said they would be open to showing indie films even with unnamed casts. But they all want me to do the following

- Spend at least $1000 advertising the event (more if more than one theater would play the film)
- Either guarantee them a minimum amount for the showing or rent out the theater (amount dependent on the day of the week)

or

- Rent out the theater for a price and handle ticket sales myself

By the way none of the theaters care if I show dvd, blueray, film whatever.

So this is all in the preliminary stages in my head only, and so means absolutely nothing. I have no films to show. So here are my questions to the community:

- How many of you have completed feature films, whatever the genre, that you have enough control over to provide to an endeavor of this type, and would actually be interested in something like this?
- What would be an equitable way to share profits, after costs (costs should be predefined)
- Does anybody think it's a good idea?
- Do you have any ideas for me in how to negotiate with the theaters?
- Do you have any ideas for me in general?
- Any ideas on how to make sure that I procure movies that actually have good enough production value at least in terms of sound.

Thanks for the input.
Aveek

 

[SinEater]

Just because you're getting it into a theater doesn't mean people will come. You still have the same issues of advertising and getting the word out. In my limited experience it takes a hell of a lot of hard work to just break even.

EDIT: And by break even I mean just for the theater costs, not breaking even on your production costs.

 

[directorik]

This is called “four-walling” and it’s done all the time. You rent
a theater and collect all the ticket money. Some theaters may work
out a deal - a smaller rental fee and they take a percentage of
the ticket sales.

A theater owner has specific expenses and is rarely willing to
take a loss in order to show movies people may not pay to go see.
That’s why a flat rental fee is usually the standard. But if you
can show you will bring in a paying audience then you can
negotiate a better deal.

Here in Los Angeles there are five theaters that specialize in
four-walling. I know many big cities have theaters like that.

- Any ideas on how to make sure that I procure movies that actually have good enough production value at least in terms of sound.

You put out the word. Ask for screeners and watch them. You are
now - technically - a distributor so you need to watch hundreds
of movies and then YOU decide which movies you are willing to
take a risk on.

 

[Kholi]

IMO this is a pretty awesome way to go. I'm still considering Four Walling Superseeds, but the issue is that it costs money to start, like you've pointed out.

Rik's also right about some theaters willing to make deals for certain kinds of content with draw.

If you can afford to do it, it would be an excellent adventure.

 

[GuerrillaAngel]

Just because you're getting it into a theater doesn't mean people will come.

Agreed.

Paid advertising is not going to fill that theatre. You'll gonna have to do grassroots marketing for each and every film.

You'd have better success having a festival because you can do that same grass roots marketing for an entire slate of films.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[trueindie]

@Rik
Thanks Rik. I'd never heard of four-walling. I'm looking it up right now and have already read some interesting and helpful material

@Sineater
I know about the advertising issues. As I mentioned, the theaters themselves want me to advertize

@Kholi
I can afford to do it. I think before I spend anything I want a number of films (let's say 10 for the sake of a number) that I can release one after the other. It may be cheaper to start with one theater rather than with three. And I may not make money in the beginning and that's okay. But it might be a reasonably inexpensive way to start a small business. If I fail, I don't think I'll be losing all that much. To be fair most of the money and work has been spent and done by the filmmakers anyway. I really don't think it's that bad an idea. I'm open to any ideas Kholi.

I'm just frustrated after talking to filmmakers with films who are desperately trying to get DVD deals which hardly gives them any money. I'm frustrated reading all the advice on various books (some of which are good), which everybody seems to be reading, but nobody is converting into success. I don't know what to believe. It's so easy to believe in a rosy future where everything goes my way. (This whole idea is the result of a very depressing late evening I spent with another filmmaker friend a couple of days ago, where I came to the conclusion that my life is a torn lottery ticket with smudged and fading numbers, and that I might soon need to pay a therapist)

@Lexie
Really appreciate your input. But define "grass roots" for me so that I understand it better. "What" "exactly" do I have to do to make the campaign "grass roots?" Thanks Guerrilla


Thank you guys for the input. Brain is churning... in a low budget sort of way.
Aveek

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Just because you're getting it into a theater doesn't mean people will come. You still have the same issues of advertising and getting the word out. In my limited experience it takes a hell of a lot of hard work to just break even.

EDIT: And by break even I mean just for the theater costs, not breaking even on your production costs.

Agreed.

You can spend tens of thousands on advertising and still you may have an empty theater without "names people know."

Why do you think distributors insist on "names" to distribute?

 

[Blade_Jones]

“four-walling” is old skool. We have a thing now called the Internets.

 

[trueindie]

I feel like a man poking a dead dog with a stick... hoping it would get up and run...

It's not important. Just another Springsteen lyric I worked into my life

If you have a film, short or feature, whatever the genre, that may or may not have run it's course through the festivals, and if you would like me to fourwall it for you, please pm me and we can discuss further.


If you want it fourwalled free of charge, you keep 25% of profits if I make any.
If you pay half the cost of the theater rental, you keep 50% of profits.
If you have any other ideas on an ideal arrangement, I'm completely open as I just started thinking about this.
If you would like to stick with the internet, I obviously can't blame you.

Being a filmmaker myself, I would like to be as equitable as possible to you as a filmmaker while being fair to myself also. So feel free to pm me with your thoughts, or publicly discuss them.

I will keep bringing this request up in the future. Hopefully at some point, somebody will hear me yelling, and mistake me for the internet.

 

[SinEater]

I have a few shorts I would be willing to give free of charge(well, pending discussion with my partners). I just don't want to see you lose money. It's insanely hard to get people into a theater to watch indie no-budget stuff.

Locally in Detroit we have something called the Mitten Movie Project. It's a once a month screening of short films/music videos/whatever at a local theater. The girl who puts it all together, Connie Mangilin, puts an insane amount of work into getting this done every month. I have a huge amount of respect for her, but she's not making any profit out of doing it. She's doing it because she loves indie film. Each month the vast majority of attendees are the filmmakers themselves. You could probably count the amount of people with no connection to the films on one hand. If you're looking to do something similar in order to make a profit, I urge you to run away as fast as you can. If you're doing it for fun and to make contacts in your local film scene, then I still urge you to proceed with caution. It's going to be a lot of hard work, and I doubt you'll ever see any real financial return. You will get to know your local film scene, though.

 

[Kholi]

@Kholi
I can afford to do it. I think before I spend anything I want a number of films (let's say 10 for the sake of a number) that I can release one after the other. It may be cheaper to start with one theater rather than with three. And I may not make money in the beginning and that's okay. But it might be a reasonably inexpensive way to start a small business. If I fail, I don't think I'll be losing all that much. To be fair most of the money and work has been spent and done by the filmmakers anyway. I really don't think it's that bad an idea. I'm open to any ideas Kholi.

I'm just frustrated after talking to filmmakers with films who are desperately trying to get DVD deals which hardly gives them any money. I'm frustrated reading all the advice on various books (some of which are good), which everybody seems to be reading, but nobody is converting into success. I don't know what to believe. It's so easy to believe in a rosy future where everything goes my way. (This whole idea is the result of a very depressing late evening I spent with another filmmaker friend a couple of days ago, where I came to the conclusion that my life is a torn lottery ticket with smudged and fading numbers, and that I might soon need to pay a therapist)

@Lexie
Really appreciate your input. But define "grass roots" for me so that I understand it better. "What" "exactly" do I have to do to make the campaign "grass roots?" Thanks Guerrilla


Thank you guys for the input. Brain is churning... in a low budget sort of way.
Aveek

Aveek... take this with a grain of salt, but I feel like I have to post it.

If you don't have Netflix, you should get it. If you do, you should sit down and look through the selection and purposely watch movies that were made between 2009 and 2011, specifically ones that you've never heard of. Pay attention to the ones that don't look like, sound like, feel like, or are anything like the ones that you HAVE heard of.

There is probably one gem in a good one hundred titles that still isn't up to a certain standard.

There aren't any well done sci-fi or horror movies, there aren't any well-done comedies. I'll remain broad and refrain from pointing out any titles, but just a glance at Netflix's content and how old some of it is will tell you two things:

1) There isn't enough content being served to the public, bad or good.

2) There aren't enough no-names doing even DECENT work. By decent I mean the stuff on the lower end of the mass produced machine.

Now, I'm no distro expert, I can only hope to obtain a respectable distribution deal one day (because, distribution is easy to get, a respectable deal isn't) but, if I were a distributor and I had to buy something to serve to the public so that I could stay in business, and the quality would end up like so-and-so horror movie with such-and-such bad acting...

I'm going to tell you to put a name in it as well so I can sell it to someone. I'll probably also tell you to put some recognizable music in it, and more things... because, frankly, it's to hide the fact that this movie isn't really worth paying for. I don't care about low-tier to no-name film festival awards. If you didn't get selected at a big brand film festival that doesn't really help me as a distributor.

Drama's kind of the exception, because there are a lot of good little dramas that just aren't marketable. You can't get someone to pay for those without the names.

The rest of it? Well, I'm not as harsh on others as I am on my own work and I still say it has less to do with the lack of names etc. that people aren't getting very good distro, and more an inability to reach a certain quality bar with their product.

Despite that, even the low quality stuff is getting picked up. Maybe not for mega numbers, but still. So, the best thing to do is to just go and make what yer gonna make with a light business plan in mind, then get it done.

 

[trueindie]

I'll do more research. I'll talk to more theaters.

If I think I can break even, or even suffer a little loss, I'll do it, at least for a while.

I'll get back to you guys.

 

[cameronchapman]

If it were me, and I was doing something like this with a slate of films, I'd put it together as an "Indie showcase" or something like that, with a different film playing each week. Then you could brand them together and advertise them together, etc. It would give it more of a purpose and make it easier for people to identify and remember. And it's a bit more unique than just some random Indie films that no one has heard of playing every week.

 

[trueindie]

If it were me, and I was doing something like this with a slate of films, I'd put it together as an "Indie showcase" or something like that, with a different film playing each week. Then you could brand them together and advertise them together, etc. It would give it more of a purpose and make it easier for people to identify and remember. And it's a bit more unique than just some random Indie films that no one has heard of playing every week.

That's what I'm thinking about. I like one of the theaters. It's in a university area. Also it seems to have a regular collection of retirees that go there. It's very laid back and not in the outskirts or anything. So if I have a bunch of family friendly or social dramas or comedies to show, I think it would work. I'm not sure horror would work with this bunch, but a lot of other indie films would. Hell I'd stand on the street corner and hand out flyers myself.

Let me do some more digging around. Thanks for the input Cameron.

 

[DeJager]

The best bet is to drop the term "indie" from projects / marketing.

Simply calling yourself an indie filmmaker and calling your movie an indie film is priming the viewer to pre-maturely judge the film based on just the term "indie". Keep the slate clean until they see it and can judge for themselves.

I'm willing to bet if you took a large scale survey with regular individuals (non-filmmaking) about the perceptions and initial thoughts on the word "indie"... most would be negative in some way (i.e., low quality, poorly done, boring, no names).

Unfortunately the terms indie filmmaker and indie movie are becoming negative things because everybody and their brother calls themselves indie filmmakers. The market is too saturated at the indie level.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

What will bring anyone to the theater to begin with when all the theater is showing is unknown films that the public views as (being kind here) below par films?

The economy is bad everywhere. So, you will break even getting nothing if it cost you nothing.

How will you convince people to come out and spend their hard earned money on stuff they have a preconceived notion is not worth their time and money?

 

[Kholi]

By making a good and exciting or fun experience.

Paranormal Acitivity is a group experience. Not just a handycam movie.

Think about it.

 

[Morris]

You might want to check with the colleges and universities in the area. You might get a better deal for screening. You could afford to sell tickets at a lower price and might get an audience. Just call them by their genre such as comedy and have a few posters. In the old days they used to call a lot of the indies art films.

 

[sonnyboo]

A long long time ago, I was a manager at a movie theater which gives me some insight into the process of booking movies, exhibiting them, and how the thought process is for the theater side. I have also four walled movies and film festivals at theaters for the last 10 years.

A movie theater had a contract with the distribution arm of the Hollywood movies (and even the indie distributors) to show those movies X number of times a day (usually 5, but sometimes 4 if it's really long). The movies they book have a guaranteed amount of P&A budget (that's PRINT and ADVERTISING). This does insure a level of attendance, even if it's small, that is usually going to be for 4-5 shows a day, 7 days a week.

To show an indie film or indie films, they have to cancel a screening which is costly, or they have to create a whole in the schedule to show the movie. This creates an anomaly in the schedule as Monday-Thursday they have the exact same show times, and if one day is different, customers for the OTHER movies, might be angry because the start time is different on that one day. This also means expense in the newspaper ads to make exceptions or changes - none of which the managers or ads are being paid for by you.

Indie filmmakers are a hassle, even when they bring in a lot of people for 1 show. Very few indie films, especially today - with little to no advertising, are going to bring in people for 5 shows a day, 7 days a week - that's 35 showings total.

Without advertising, how is the general public going to know about the films or the screening, nonetheless IF they'd be interested in seeing that kind of movie?

 

[trueindie]

What will bring anyone to the theater to begin with when all the theater is showing is unknown films that the public views as (being kind here) below par films?

The economy is bad everywhere. So, you will break even getting nothing if it cost you nothing.

How will you convince people to come out and spend their hard earned money on stuff they have a preconceived notion is not worth their time and money?

Good questions. let me try to answer them.

You and I may feel that most indie filmmakers suck. But I don't think the public views Independent film that way. I think they look upon it favorably. And to be fair, there are a lot of good filmmakers, who are not on this board, who make good independent films. I think it will be possible to find good films out there.


How will I convince people to come and spend their hard earned 8bucks? I'm hoping I'll do it through a good advertizing campaign. What is the campaign going to be? not sure yet. Need to talk to more people and think a bit more.