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Creating sound effects for a running sequence

N

NLight

I've created a short visual effects film for a high school project and I'm currently in the process of designing sound for it. The film starts with a running sequence which is the part of the project I'm struggling with. I don't have the ability to record any sound so I'm having to use stock sound from online sources. In the video below I'm using two tracks for the audio, one for the sound of footsteps, the other for the fast breathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d9OvchtDhDo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d9OvchtDhDo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I've never done any kind of sound design before so it's all completely new to me, but I know that there is something wrong about the sequence at the moment. Due to my lack of experience I cannot figure out what's wrong with it. I'm thinking it may be due to the lack of variation in the sounds, but I'm not sure. I've found some reference for what I'd ideally want it to sound like, but even when comparing it to mine I can't figure out the problem. You can see the reference I'm using below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeW6drdOD1M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeW6drdOD1M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I'd appreciate any help you can give me, because at the moment, the sound is by far the weakest part of my film.
 
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NLight said:
I've created a short visual effects film for a high school project and I'm currently in the process of designing sound for it. The film starts with a running sequence which is the part of the project I'm struggling with. I don't have the ability to record any sound so I'm having to use stock sound from online sources. In the video below I'm using two tracks for the audio, one for the sound of footsteps, the other for the fast breathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d9OvchtDhDo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d9OvchtDhDo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I've never done any kind of sound design before so it's all completely new to me, but I know that there is something wrong about the sequence at the moment. Due to my lack of experience I cannot figure out what's wrong with it. I'm thinking it may be due to the lack of variation in the sounds, but I'm not sure. I've found some reference for what I'd ideally want it to sound like, but even when comparing it to mine I can't figure out the problem. You can see the reference I'm using below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeW6drdOD1M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WeW6drdOD1M&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

I'd appreciate any help you can give me, because at the moment, the sound is by far the weakest part of my film.
Click to expand...


Sound isn't my strongest forte, but from my limited experience (and what I hear anyway), there is variation in the running, but it's not incredibly vivid or loud. How did you do the running sound? Was it shot at the time, or put in post?

I don't know what mic/sound equip you are using, but I would try and get someone to maybe run in place, in heavy shoes/boots, get a good rythmic "thumping sound", and you can play with the audio in post. Same with the breathing-maybe after your "runner" has finished running (and panting for breath ;)

There are some really good audio people on the forums, who will be eager to give you some good advice :)
 
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I think the running sounds fine, it's synced up enough to work. The breathing though bothers me, it feels like it's coming from the camera. I would use that kind of breathing for a POV shot for the running guy. For example, no breathing sound when we are actually looking at him, then cut to his POV and we hear breathing, because we're in his head.

Or try and find a breathing sound that is more 'external' if that makes sense...
 
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NLight said:
I'm having to use stock sound from online sources.
Click to expand...
That's part of the problem. Now, I understand the limitations under which you are working, but stock sources almost never do a good job of Foley, even when well recorded.

The footage from BoB was performed by professional Foley artists, recorded by professional Foley mixers, and mixed by professional rerecording mixers so it is an unfair comparison.

NLight said:
In the video below I'm using two tracks for the audio, one for the sound of footsteps, the other for the fast breathing.
Click to expand...

Okay, the critique...

The footsteps are a little out of sync, or at least they look that way. Part of the reason is that they were not recorded for the specific footage. They also sound a little robotic. The breaths are very "dull", meaning that they lack high end, and they also appear to be out of sync and/or not to match the visuals.

Foley is a very subtle, almost magical, art form. (FYI, I'm doing the Foley work on a feature right now). I am by no means a professional Foley artist, but by default I have to do a lot of Foley work as the budgets for the projects I do negate me from hiring professionals.

Besides the footsteps you also need cloth sounds - the legs rubbing together and the arms rubbing against the sides. You also need an ambience, someplace for the sounds to live. There also needs to be a sense of the sounds of the objects that the character is passing, the long grass & bushes and whatever lies beyond the fence. The "secret" lies in the mix. In the BoB clip all of those things are there (and a lot more) even if you are not aware of them; however, you would miss them if the weren't there. Every mixer works differently but on the sessions I have observed the mixer worked in "subtractive" mode. All of the audio elements are present "at volume". Each element is EQed and reverbs added. All of the elements and effects are slowly reduced to the basic elements of the visual - the running and the breathing in the BoB clip - but the aural idea of the rest is still present at a very low volume.

In a scene I was working on last night Character K walks into the home of Character L. (Character K is ex-military so I chose "hard" sounding shoes and I almost march his footsteps.) I had to put in the sound of the rain (three stereo tracks), the door opening and closing, his hand on the doorknob, his footsteps (both hardwood floor and carpet), the sound of his wet jacket, his pants, the water dripping on the floor and the six-pack he is carrying. That's ten tracks - not including the dialog and the sound of the TV program Character L is watching - in 30 seconds of footage.

I would suggest getting the book "The Foley Grail" by Vanessa Theme Ament. Read it, watch the accompanying DVD, read it again (I'm on my fifth read).

Now, having ripped you to shreds, not bad at all for a first attempt. At least you knew that something wasn't right and asked questions on how to make it better. And just so you know, there have been many times where I have had to go back and redo things because they weren't working. Keep working and experimenting, keep trying to improve, no matter how good it is always try to be better, and keep asking questions.
 
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Can you give some more information on what the tone of the film is? What the opening sequence is setting up for later in the story?

I think running from something/someone is a great start to a story in film.

One of the best sound designers of all time (Randy Thom) says that scripts have to be written with sound in mind.

That said, without knowing what your story is about I can only make blind suggestions:

Purely technical response to your question:

Running noises are out of sync and your breathing is too slow for someone running at that speed and sounds too "Darth Vaderish" and close to the mic and does not contribute to what you want to show here.

Okay, that said, and said by 4 other people before me, I won't get into too much more about it.

Here is what I want to teach you from this post and from my experience: That sound is much more than "match what is on the screen". It has limitless applications and is a vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital vital VITAL tool that must not be underestimated as a director. Every top-box-office director knows the importance of sound and uses it as one of their main tools in filmmaking.

That said, here is what I want to teach you:

1. Be creative and figure out what you want to communicate.

2. Write the script with sound in mind and make decisions to allow sound to play it's part in your film.


Some examples of this would be:

- As the kid is running, write in the script that he hears something to the right or behind him that startles him and have him look in the direction it came from. This would then be awesome to have some weird owl sound or frightening sound to add to the tension.

- Figure out what emotion you want the actor to convey and show it. Then, once you have the visuals, THE AUDIO HAS TO MATCH THE VISUALS. You can't have some guy running with a smile on his face and then try to add a soundtrack that has a scared breathing - doesn't match and isn't convincing.

- You can tell the audience a lot about the character with sound alone. Is this character strong, courageous, scared, wimpy, frightened? Use sound to show this - wimpy breaths, strong grunts as he runs, scared whimper when he hears something startling.

- You can use darkness or things you can't see on screen to tell the viewer more about the story. Like having a huge rotweiller dog barking as he runs by one of those fences can tell the viewer that he's in a bad part of town or some weird place. Or kids yelling at him or police sirens, etc. etc. Use darkness to help you create a mood. Script it so you shoot at night and have the kid running from and into darkness and you can create whatever mood and soundscape you want. Otherwise you're stuck with some backyard fence and a school parking lot. Think outside the box.

- You are absolutely right in comparing your film to professional films - don't let anyone tell you otherwise. How else are you going to know what good sound is and strive to match it?


Those are just some thoughts for the long run and I want you to start using this philosphy in your filmmaking because it will take you a long way.


As far as the current problem you need help with, I suggest finding or editing running FX that match the up with your pics. Find some breathing that better approximates the action on the screen - not slow darth vader breathing but faster, out of breath, tired breathing. Perhaps none exists online - use a mac laptop's mic to record some and create an audio file that way. Add some distant city ambiences. Add a dog barking in the distance (for across the fence) so you get some depth. Ben Burtt (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Wall-E) starts from the ambiences and works his way into the foreground. I suggest doing that if you have the resources.



There are lots of good examples of people running and sound effects:

Avatar - scene with Sully running from the big cougar monster-thing: James Cameron wanted to hear the actor's breathing no matter what. They spent a long time making holes in the mix of the FX and cutting the breathing of the actor through. Great example of how the director wanted to always make the audience feel the danger. He said if you lost the breathing, you lost the point of the scene and it wouldn't work.

The Hurt Locker - both the scene with the sniper and the alley-way at night. Great sound design, great foley examples for you. The sound designer/mixer said they tried re-recording the breathing and it just didn't work. They really got the real emotion and preserved that for the audience, and could very well be reason they won the oscars for sound because they were able to record the dialogue so well that they kept all of the actor's original performances. In the end there were only 4 lines of replaced recordings for the principal character.

Minority Report: Scene when TC is running from the cops in the factory. Great sound design.

Saving Private Ryan: Any of the scenes with running - especially the end. Great sound design and really puts you there. Great foley.



I don't mean to do your homework for you but let me know how it goes and if you need anymore help.
 
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Mannnn I asked what you used for source, and your answer is in the first post!:rolleyes:


Gads my eyes aren't working right now-sorry about that (looks like you got some detailed advice though! :))
 
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