Community Project

NickClapper

NickClapper

My greatest regret, during my time on IndieTalk, has been my failure to get a community project off the ground. We came pretty close with the organ lottery project, but it never quite worked out. The past few days has seen a new member trying to get another community project off the ground, but is, I suspect, going to fall into a number of inevitable traps.

I am currently studying for the final exams of my academic career (*sob*) so am just sitting in libraries all day, every day. I'd like something to break it up a little bit (in addition to the couple of projects I am, slowly, working on). So I've come up with a new way to do a community project.

If you would like to participate in this project as a director (or in a shooting capacity), I need the following information out of you:

What actors are at your disposal? [i.e. two men and a woman]
What locations are at your disposal? [i.e. a house, a bar, an abandoned quarry]
Can you record decent quality sound? [i.e. yes]
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Please be conservative with your responses. In order for this project to be realistic and work, I need to be sure that people can (and will) shoot their scenes in the allocated manner.

Once I have a bunch of participants, I will go away and write a short script that incorporates these various shooting units into a single coherent story. I will ensure that no member has more than a maximum of two days shooting (though generally will try and keep it to what can be done in a single day). If you cannot record decent quality sound, I will give you no dialogue to shoot. Everything will be kept as simple as possible (within the constraints of a very tricky project!) so that we have the maximum chance of success.

Additionally, if you are not willing to direct (or arrange the production of) a shooting unit, there are loads of other roles that are required:

Composer
Editor - individual units should edit their scenes but a central editor will put it all together and try and ensure that the editing matches throughout.
Post-sound
VFX - will not be VFX heavy, but we can incorporate some if there's someone who can supply the talent.
Marketing - with so many cooks, would be great to have someone responsible for pushing the film.
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In order to make this attempt as successful as possible, I will only accept forum regulars into the scheme. New members (and I'm talking people who've only been around a few weeks) are welcome to input and help out, but it is of paramount importance that I know people will stick around and see their unit through to completion.

The deadline for signing up is 18th April 2014, giving people two weeks, after which we will allocate two months (and a bit) to complete production of your scenes, meaning a shooting deadline of 30th June 2014. As I have said, should be no more than a day of filming over the course of two months, so if you can't commit to that then please don't!

I really hope this works, and I think it can. Let me know if you have any thoughts and get signing up!

Current units:
David.rhsc (San Francisco, USA)
cheeseandachallenge (Wellington, New Zealand)
Cracker Funk (Richmond, USA)
wheatgrinder
Flicker Pictures (Boston, USA)
mad_hatter (Birmingham, England)
Dreadylocks (Omaha, USA)
Lucky Hardwood (New Orleans, USA)
ChimpPhobiaFilms (Ohio, USA)

Fence-sitting-maybe-merchants:
WalterB
Dreadylocks
sfoster
mad_hatter
ChimpPhobiaFilms
ItDonnedOnMe
jax_rox
Flicker Pictures

Music team
JoshL
mike mcguill

Sound team
mike mcguill

Sound maybes
AudioPostExpert
Alcove Audio

Marketing maybes
RayW

And remember to fill in this form if you want to have a shooting unit in the film!

(Of course, if you're local to an existing unit, why not team up?)
 
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Hi Wheat – I don't mind the changes, adds a little extra drama if it can be pulled off sensitively (the other sections are fairly 'restrained', so the acting and direction will need to avoid melodrama). One thing I would say is that I prefer the 'cult' to be patriarchal. I don't know whether you had changed this so that Charles is not related to Samuel and Ruth, or whether they just call him Brother Charles even though he is their father, but I think that him being their father is quite central to the impression of the segment. It's about control and isolation – because he's their father, he's forced them to buy into this devotion. I think that, if there's the suggestion that it might be voluntary, then it loses some of its impact. If the whole film is evaluating notions and systems of belief, then this final piece – breaking out from the rules that govern their faith – is the crux that the film will thematically hang on.
 
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Hi Wheat – I don't mind the changes, adds a little extra drama if it can be pulled off sensitively (the other sections are fairly 'restrained', so the acting and direction will need to avoid melodrama). One thing I would say is that I prefer the 'cult' to be patriarchal. I don't know whether you had changed this so that Charles is not related to Samuel and Ruth, or whether they just call him Brother Charles even though he is their father, but I think that him being their father is quite central to the impression of the segment. It's about control and isolation – because he's their father, he's forced them to buy into this devotion. I think that, if there's the suggestion that it might be voluntary, then it loses some of its impact. If the whole film is evaluating notions and systems of belief, then this final piece – breaking out from the rules that govern their faith – is the crux that the film will thematically hang on.
 
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This adds a little drama but leaves everything about the same as Nick wrote it.
Code: 
INT. SMALLHOLDING BEDROOM, DAY

CHARLES (an old man, cold eyed and authoritative) lies in a bed. 
Head propped up by several pillows. He breaths through an 
oxygen mask and is attached to a IV. RUTH (young woman) sits woriedly nearby.  
Samuel enters his bedroom, panting slightly.

							SAMUEL

				Father, I saw a man in the woods.

Charles does not show any sign of listening.

							SAMUEL

				he'll find it soon! We need to move now!

Charles still does not respond.  Samuel steps closer
 to the side of Charles' bed.

							SAMUEL 

				Father. it is time-

Charles moves the mask from his face his hand shaking 
and his eyes wincing with pain. When he speaks, his voice is hard as steel.

							CHARLES

				It is time when I say it is time.

							SAMUEL

				...but if the unordained find the craft then we will not-

Charles raises a hand to silence the boy

							CHARLES

				{gathers patience and softens} 
                      Dear Samuel, you must trust the Prophecy. 
                                                We shall be delivered...
                           "even as the  first fruits of the harvest are reserved.. 

Samuel joins him, completing the verse.. 

							SAMUEL

				.. are reserved for the day of our coming. 
                              Unblemished they shall rise with us to the stars."

Samuel looks down to his hand, surprised to see it fiercely 
clenching the edge of the blanket.  He forces it to relax. 
He leans near and reaches to adjust one of the pillows behind Charles's head. 
Charles raises his hand to gently pat Samuel on the cheek 

							SAMUEL

				Daddy, I don't think your strong enough
                                        if we don't make it to the craft...  

Charles hand moves to behind Samuel's neck, pulling him down.  
 Charles resists but the old man is strong with faith. 
He raises his head to Samuel's face   

							CHARLES

				Hold fast to faith boy, they will come to us. 
                                                         I have seen it.

							SAMUEL

				But father...

							CHARLES

				ENOUGH! 

Exhausted, Charles releases Samuel's neck, his head falls back to the pillow.
Samuel straightens.  Charles closes his eyes.

							CHARLES

				Repent children.. while you still can.

Samuel gently replaces the the oxygen mask over Charles's face. 
 Samuel moves to the window.
 
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Ill probably deliver at the end of the month.
Did someone else sign up for the Vern shots? I cant recall..

The additional pages with Ruth add one more ball to this juggling act, Ill make it a stretch goal, but Id like to have the option of removing Ruth and the additional scene with Ruth and Samuel as Samuel is leaving the house. That bit extra adds 30% more work to my commit.
 
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wheatgrinder said:
Ill probably deliver at the end of the month.
Did someone else sign up for the Vern shots? I cant recall..

The additional pages with Ruth add one more ball to this juggling act, Ill make it a stretch goal, but Id like to have the option of removing Ruth and the additional scene with Ruth and Samuel as Samuel is leaving the house. That bit extra adds 30% more work to my commit.
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Make any changes that you feel are necessary in order to make your shoot schedule easier. If that's 30% more work, then it's probably not worth it.

I did have you down to shoot the Vern shots. If you don't feel you can do that, then I'll look to try and find someone else. That said, I reckon you'd make a great Vern ;)

WalterB said:
Can we still meet our schedule?
First festival deadline is oktober 1st
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Yes, I think we can, but we need to tighten up our workflow.

Those units who have completed their shooting need to start thinking about transferring the footage over to Cracker Funk. I feel like the sooner we get the footage to Virginia, the less that's hanging over our head, and it gives CF a bit more time to look over it and start planning it.

We presumably need a locked edit before we can start work on the sound design, so the earlier we get that, the better. Similarly, with the score, I think we can start working with the composer(s) to work on themes and then, as soon as we get a locked edit, the real work will begin.

Hopefully we'll have David and CF's stuff wrapped in the next couple of weeks, and then wheat's by the end of the month.

It'll be tight to make it for October 1st, but I don't think it's by any means impossible!

EDIT: My IMDBpro is going to expire in a week or so, and I'm not going to renew. But I reckon we have enough international media attention now to get a listing on IMDB, so if you want to send me some of your credits, then I'll try and list it before my account goes bust.
 
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I'll prepare a list of credits.
I still need to make the notes for CF. Since we're both usig a PC with PPro CS5.5 I'll send him the footage with the projectfile.
I could put it on a SD and send it. Or be uploading for ages ;)
 
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NickClapper said:
We presumably need a locked edit before we can start work on the sound design...
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Yes and no. One wouldn't generally want to start any actual physical audio work until there was a locked-off edit but seeing the initial rough edits is certainly part of the sound design process. Not just to start formulating ideas but to actually feed back to the director and picture editor, making comments/suggestions which will make the sound design (and therefore the film of course) more effective. I realise this is not the usual workflow for amateur and low/no budget filmmakers but it is the workflow of choice for many higher budget films and the top filmmakers because it makes the sound design a collaborator rather than just a slave. It's obviously up to you how you wish to proceed though.

G
 
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I absolutely agree that the earlier we start thinking and drafting, the quicker/easier the post-production process will be.

I think we should probably finalise how we're going to approach the sound-post process. At the moment we've got APE, Alcove and Mike McGuill interested in helping out, which is great. Do you guys want to organise that amongst yourselves (in terms of how/if you divide the work)?
 
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NickClapper said:
Do you guys want to organise that amongst yourselves (in terms of how/if you divide the work)?
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Audio post needs a strict hierarchical structure to work effectively. Unfortunately, many have personal preferences for certain audio post roles, usually for those roles closer to or at the top of the hierarchy. It might be a good idea for us to have a discussion of the roles we would like to perform and for you to make the decision? Maybe we should each post our preferences and go from there?

One thing to bare in mind, I did mention sometime in the past that I might be willing to make a 5.1 mix (as well as a stereo mix of course). If a 5.1 mix is desirable, that will limit the potential roles of Alcove and Mike (presuming they have stereo rather than 5.1 facilities) to mainly; dialogue editing, Foley and maybe some spot SFX. So, is a 5.1 mix desirable?

As it stands at the moment, I have various small/short projects scheduled over the next couple of months, a few of which are flexible, so I should be OK for this project.

G
 
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While I like to think I know my stuff pretty well, I'm also well aware that both APE and Alcove have significantly more depth of experience than me, so I'm very happy to defer to (and I hope learn a few things from) that experience.

I agree with APE, a hierarchical structure to the sound department seems a no-brainer here if we want the wheels to stay on, and it also seems a no-brainer that the most experienced people should be nearer the top of that hierarchy.

I think that's my way of saying I'm happy to muck in with whatever needs doing.
 
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I just sent Nick, Wheat, C&C, CF, APE, Mike and Alcove a new preview of the Dutch scene.
The cut isn't different, but the sound is synced now. It sounds a lot better than that cooling fan in the camera ;)

@David: your inbox is full.
How did shooting go? We're all curious!
 
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WalterB said:
The cut isn't different, but the sound is synced now. It sounds a lot better than that cooling fan in the camera ;)
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There are obviously issues with the background noise, particularly the inconsistency of it. However, at a cursory glance, I would say that most of it can be dealt with during dialogue editing/pre-mixing. Depending on what additional audio coverage you recorded, we may need a line or two of ADR but that will be up to the Dialogue Editor to determine and specify.

mikemcguill said:
I think that's my way of saying I'm happy to muck in with whatever needs doing.
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Noted, and very magnanimous of you! Alcove and/or I will do our best to make sure you get something useful out of the experience. BTW, what audio software are you using?

Alcove, I know you expressed a desire to do the sound design for the cell footage, what desire/s do you have have for the rest of the short?

AudioPostExpert said:
So, is a 5.1 mix desirable?
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Nick, we're going to need an answer to this question before we can proceed much further.

G
 
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I think Oct. 1st will be a tough deadline to meet, though I think we should shoot for it. Mainly, I think we'd be putting a strain on our audio guys, and I think we all agree that we should allow them to do their best. Wheaty is looking to have his finished by the end of the month, and that's about the same timeline I'm looking at.

Yes, I agree, we should begin the process of transferring the footage. And since we're talking scheduling, I think I should mention the fact that by mid-September, I'm effectively unavailable. After that, I can make small changes and edits, but for all intents and purposes, I need to be done by then.

So, it sounds like we're in agreement that we can substitute the introductory radio opening with a montage of reactions of people watching the viral video? When we last discussed it, I wasn't super gung-ho about making that opening montage cell-phone footage, but the more I think about it, I think we should keep it lo-fi.

I don't think we need to concern ourselves with the fact that we'd be opening with low-grade footage. We'd be making it obvious that it's done intentionally. The way I envision it, it wouldn't simply be cell-phone footage, but we'd add graphics to make it clear that what the audience is seeing is a youtube video.

And then we'd transition from a youtube video to a youtube video within a youtube video. Haha, meta as shit! Then finally to the real world.
 
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